What makes a good knife/good steel?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Here is my question for everyone:

How do we decide the standards and parameters for what makes a good knife and what makes good steel?

Is the below list accurate?

1 Pure, impurity-free steel. No unwanted impurities/elements.
2 Select-added elements.
3 Consistent Structure.

What else would you say?

Also, and I want to keep this as least controversial as possible: Why do some nations and groups make better quality steel and knives than others? Is it a genetically-inherent reason or is it simply the enviroment of having the proper education and knowledge, tools, and skill? For example: Can Africans be trained to produce knives in their countries that are as good-quality as Japanese Seki-made knives or knives made in Germany?

What would it take to do this?

[tvenuto]

A (heat treatable) steel is only as good as its heat treat. You can take a potentially acceptable knife steel, and heat treat it in such a way that it shatters when you drop it. You can anneal it and it won’t hold an edge.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

A (heat treatable) steel is only as good as its heat treat. You can take a potentially acceptable knife steel, and heat treat it in such a way that it shatters when you drop it. You can anneal it and it won’t hold an edge.

I think Lc200N is a good steel for both edge holding and rust resistance.

[Doc Dan]

Here is my question for everyone:

How do we decide the standards and parameters for what makes a good knife and what makes good steel?

Is the below list accurate?

1 Pure, impurity-free steel. No unwanted impurities/elements.
2 Select-added elements.
3 Consistent Structure.

What else would you say?

Also, and I want to keep this as least controversial as possible: Why do some nations and groups make better quality steel and knives than others? Is it a genetically-inherent reason or is it simply the enviroment of having the proper education and knowledge, tools, and skill? For example: Can Africans be trained to produce knives in their countries that are as good-quality as Japanese Seki-made knives or knives made in Germany?

What would it take to do this?

Africans are not stupid. They can easily be taught. It would depend on which country, I think. I have a number of friends from different African nations and I can tell you their cultures and manners of thinking are even more different than Asian thinking is from Americans.

[tvenuto]

SEF for a decent primer on why Europeans showed up in North America and infected the native Americans with smallpox (instead of the other way around) I recommend reading Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond.

The short answer is that people tend to trade in east-west lines. This is because the lifestyle (farming/animal husbandry) at one latitude is likely to be different than the one at a different latitude. So if you're in the Carolinas you can't trade seeds with someone in Chile and expect them to grow properly (or at least similarly). Trade not only allows societies to get what they can't make locally, but it also drives the spread of ideas. This constant mixing allows innovation. To wit, Newton made huge advances in our understanding of physics, but he used Arabic numerals to do so. Newton wasn't an Arab, so how did he get them? When viewed through this lens, Newton was as much the beneficiary of other people's innovations as he was a benefactor. This is not to take anything away from Newton, but it does make you wonder: had Newton not been delivered Arabic numerals and the algebra they enabled, would he have made any memorable advancements in physics at all?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Good points, Doc and tv. Thank you. What I want to see ultimately is for all people to be able to have quality manufacturing in local areas without pollution and that is inexpensive.

[Crux]

Easy question. Any steel that gets put into a Para 3 body becomes a good if not great knife steel.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Easy question. Any steel that gets put into a Para 3 body becomes a good if not great knife steel.

:) Yes to that.

[The Mastiff]

Carbon at least .80. No more chrome than needed for heat treating purposes. And Tungsten for carbides. :)

Joe

[Evil D]

A (heat treatable) steel is only as good as its heat treat. You can take a potentially acceptable knife steel, and heat treat it in such a way that it shatters when you drop it. You can anneal it and it won’t hold an edge.

This really was the turning point I think. Steel in general and learning about tempering was one of the biggest turning points in history. It lead to a broader understanding of all sorts of metal types and alloys and we certainly wouldn't be where we are today if that first person hadn't added carbon to iron. In the early days all those blacksmiths who sorted out how to make a sword strong enough to kill but soft enough to not shatter..some of those guys really deserve to be in the history books by name. Maybe there are some bladesmiths in China who get some kind of recognition.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Carbon at least .80. No more chrome than needed for heat treating purposes. And Tungsten for carbides. :)

Joe

I think I may have mentioned this before but over the years I have had chats with numerous people who have many views on steel and knives.

One of them told me he loved "high carbon steel" and considered it to be superior to even the most advanced alloys and stainless steel available. He said there is nothing a quality carbon steel blade cannot do, and there is no need for stainless." I asked him what about rust and corrosion and he said that is what oil and cleaning materials are for.

This one was a bit extreme in his view; he considered any elements added for stain resistance to be "poison in the metal". And told me stainless is a "toy steel" for "tender feet" who don't belong in the outdoors for long because they need to "use what the Pioneers and Frontiers men used"."

[The Mastiff]

This one was a bit extreme in his view; he considered any elements added for stain resistance to be "poison in the metal". And told me stainless is a "toy steel" for "tender feet" who don't belong in the outdoors for long because they need to "use what the Pioneers and Frontiers men used"."

He is more extreme than me. I see a use for stainless steels but in many instances I just don't feel the need for it. I do have a few though and I like some of the stainless steels but some I don't like. I won't give up edge stability for corrosion resistance unless the knife is meant to sit in my cars trunk as an emergency knife and I don't really plan on taking it out for maintenance more than once or twice a year. I like my VG 10 Enduras too. I just like my Superblue, V-Toku-2 and HAP 40 more for daily carry because the steels do what I like. Steels aren't bad and good. They are just combinations of attributes and are better suited for different jobs. I prefer thin edges around 30 degrees inclusive with good edge stability and decent wear resistance. Not exceptionally difficult or demanding for the premium steels. I can use just about any knife made if I have to but when I have a choice I get knives more tailored towards the balance I prefer but I'm not silly enough to think my needs are the same as everyone else. Vivi and Gringo legitimately need more corrosion resistance than I do along with the high performing edge. That is a more difficult balance to pull off and quite often leads to more trials of different combinations before they find the right ones for them. Me? I'm easier. There are many I get along with. From O1 and A2 up to 10V and Maxamet can make me happy.

Joe