More on Carbon Steel: All of your feedback/views welcome.

If your topic has nothing to do with Spyderco, you can post it here.
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6301
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

More on Carbon Steel: All of your feedback/views welcome.

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:07 pm

We have discussed various carbon steel alloys on the forum before. I want to share with you an interesting discussion I had with someone about carbon steel and also get more of your views on this.

I was having a chat with a US Navy Veteran (by the way, I thank all of you Veterans on here and Active Duty Service people for your service!) and we discussed advanced technology possibilities and also knives and steel. He told me that while he agrees that all sorts of new materials such as 3d printed pure carbon composites that are tens to dozens of times stronger and more durable than steel and other materials are on the experimental drawing boards, and while he acknowledges the great use of various super stainless and tool steel, surprise, surprise to me, he said that well-made and well heat-treated carbon steel, when quality control and engineering is focused on it, has a major place not only today, but, according to him, good quality carbon steel will continue to be used in knives and even on military hardware for decades and centuries to come, if things continue.

This was surprising to me, because, as some of you on here know, I thought that all sea men, sailors, and Navy people would all be on the same page about stainless steel: That stainless steel is THE replacement for carbon steel because of the rust/corrosion issue.

This Navy Veteran told me, when I brought up rust, that while steel such as H1 and Lc200N as used by Spyderco (I told him of these new steel alloys) is very good and has its place, he said that this is why we have oils, lubricants, and anti-rust paints and coatings.

He said the main reason why he advocates for well-made carbon steel is because carbon steel is tougher, more elastic and resilient, and easier for troops to maintain in the field and on the sea, than stainless steel of any kind, and that if a person wants to avoid rust they can always use steel wire brushes and anti rust materials such as oils and lubricants and other things.

Vivi, I was thinking of you and how you have tested all sorts of steel, carbon and stainless, when I was chatting with this great man, and I asked him "what would be your ideal knife based on presently-known steel?" and he pointed me to the Ontario USA made 1095 carbon steel folders and fixed blades, such as the Spec Plus series, that have Zytel and Kraton handles, but, they use carbon steel instead of stainless. He said he would just carry a bottle of some anti-rust oil or other material and wipe off the blade.

Anyhow, I would welcome all of your views and feedback on this topic.

Thank you

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 17655
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: More on Carbon Steel: All of your feedback/views welcome.

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:57 am

I have owned several knives over the years with high carbon steel blades. Some of the older ones I have no idea which exact steel it was but I'm sure at one time something common like 1095 is probably what most of them were made of. In years past many of the older, hard core knife fans wouldn't dare use a blade made with stainless. Because before we were blessed with all of these modern day stainless alloys there were very few stainless steels that made up a decent blade.

At one time stainless couldn't hold an edge hardly at all. Also most stainless was very hard to sharpen and when you finally did get it sharp it wouldn't hold an edge at all. Now that was truly the case back in the 50s, 60s, 70s and in most cases even in most of the 80s. But in the past 20 years or so they have made huge strides of improvement in stainless blades. I almost have to laugh when I try to show one of my older friends one of Spyderco's newer blades and how good they are>> only for them to give me a disgusted look and tell me that all stainless steels are bad for knife blades :rolleyes:

It's really amusing that so many of the older guys turn their nose up even at mere mention of most modern stainless steel blades. I even one day offered an old Barber friend of mine ( in his late 70s) to use my Burgundy Caly Jr ( ZDP-189) for a week or so for him to see how good many of the modern day stainless steel blades now perform. I couldn't even get him to hold the Caly Jr in his hand to at least look it over. That's how turned off these older guys are with modern day stainless steel blades :rolleyes: . Yeah a lot of these older guys are extremely narrow minded to say the least :rolleyes: :D .

User avatar
anagarika
Member
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:59 pm

Re: More on Carbon Steel: All of your feedback/views welcome.

Postby anagarika » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:57 am

Seeing how H1 bent and not broken, I’m wondering if there’s any carbon steel (by production company, not custom) that can do the same. Remember David Lowry’s story with bobcat?
Chris :spyder:

User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: More on Carbon Steel: All of your feedback/views welcome.

Postby MichaelScott » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:11 pm

All of my Great Eastern Cutlery knives have 1095. It works fine, sharpens easily and when I get tired of the patina, I use Flitz and polish them up.
What doesn’t kill you will make you stronger. Except infantry. Infantry will kill you.

“Gentlemen, bring out your men.” — T. J. Jackson, Second Manassas, 1862

http://acehotel.blog

Conan
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 9:29 am

Re: More on Carbon Steel: All of your feedback/views welcome.

Postby Conan » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:24 pm

I like A2 steel from Bark River a lot! But I like the 3V even better.

James Y
Member
Posts: 1397
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Southern CA

Re: More on Carbon Steel: All of your feedback/views welcome.

Postby James Y » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:46 pm

My first pocketknives back in the '70s were carbon steel Schrades/Old Timers, Ka-Bars (pocketknives), Camillus, Craftsman, etc. I don't know what the steel designation was, only that it was 'high carbon cutlery steel' or 'high carbon tool steel'. They worked fine, though the Schrade knives in particular had a tendency to develop rust spots extremely easily, often from just sitting in my pocket for one day (and I don't have particularly acidic sweat or anything).

My first pocketknife with a stainless blade was a Schrade medium stockman labeled "stainless" on the shield, and "razor blade stainless" etched onto the main blade. That knife was actually very good; it held and took an edge very well for what I used a knife for. However, the backsprings were still carbon steel, and they rusted a bit, though not enough to negatively affect the knife.

My second stainles pocketknife was a Buck Cadet, bought in 1978. At that time, I didn't know that Buck's 300 series pocketknives were actually produced on contract by Camillus. Also pretty good. And like the stainless Schrade, my Cadet's backsprings rusted a bit/turned dark grey, as they were still carbon steel.

I eventually tried out a SAK, and really liked their steel (I still do, even though it's a bit soft). And the backsprings were stainless as well. Believe it or not, some carbon steel aficionados still say that SAK steel is too hard and difficult to put an edge on. I don't know what they're doing, as SAK knife blades are a breeze to sharpen for me, and I'm no sharpening guru.

I like and still use some carbon steel knives, mostly some fixed blades (and machetes, of course). I definitely feel that carbon steel is the way to go for things like swords. But for pocketknives, my preference will always be a good stainless. It's what I like. I have no beef with someone who prefers carbon over stainless. But anyone who says that carbon steel is superior to all stainless steels (in knives) across the board is plain wrong, or trying hard to justify their preference as superior. Stainless steels have evolved tremendously over the years (the good ones, anyway). To totally deny any proof of that is similar to saying that, since in times past people crossed the country in covered wagons, or by ship (going all the way down to Cape Horn and back up), that that's superior to these newfangled things called cars or airplanes. I'm not comparing carbon steel to covered wagons, only the type of argument that older is always better.

Jim

Joseph08
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:01 am

Re: More on Carbon Steel: All of your feedback/views welcome.

Postby Joseph08 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:31 am

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:07 pm
We have discussed various carbon steel alloys on the forum before. I want to share with you an interesting discussion I had with someone about carbon steel and also get more of your views on this.

I was having a chat with a US Navy Veteran (by the way, I thank all of you Veterans on here and Active Duty Service people for your service!) and we discussed advanced technology possibilities and also knives and steel. He told me that while he agrees that all sorts of new materials such as 3d printed pure carbon composites that are tens to dozens of times stronger and more durable than steel and other materials are on the experimental drawing boards, and while he acknowledges the great use of various super stainless and tool steel, surprise, surprise to me, he said that well-made and well heat-treated carbon steel, when quality control and engineering is focused on it, has a major place not only today, but, according to him, good quality carbon steel will continue to be used in knives and even on military hardware for decades and centuries to come, if things continue.

This was surprising to me, because, as some of you on here know, I thought that all sea men, sailors, and Navy people would all be on the same page about stainless steel: That stainless steel is THE replacement for carbon steel because of the rust/corrosion issue.

This Navy Veteran told me, when I brought up rust, that while steel such as H1 and Lc200N as used by Spyderco (I told him of these new steel alloys) is very good and has its place, he said that this is why we have oils, lubricants, and anti-rust paints and coatings.

He said the main reason why he advocates for well-made carbon steel is because carbon steel is tougher, more elastic and resilient, and easier for troops to maintain in the field and on the sea, than stainless steel of any kind, and that if a person wants to avoid rust they can always use steel wire brushes and anti rust materials such as oils and lubricants and other things.

Vivi, I was thinking of you and how you have tested all sorts of steel, carbon and stainless, when I was chatting with this great man, and I asked him "what would be your ideal knife based on presently-known steel?" and he pointed me to the Ontario USA made 1095 carbon steel folders and fixed blades, such as the Spec Plus series, that have Zytel and Kraton handles, but, they use carbon steel instead of stainless. He said he would just carry a bottle of some anti-rust oil or other material and wipe off the blade.

Anyhow, I would welcome all of your views and feedback on this topic.

Thank you
I own my two most favorite Damascus Steel Knives. Well this article has really helped me to understand how to keep them https://swordsswords.com/blog/maintenan ... eel-blade/


Return to “Off-Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests