Tormec Sharpening

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Tormec Sharpening

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:37 am

After working with re-profiling a S90V Military down to 10 degrees it is making sense to look at something more effective than the Hapstone7 or even the Wicked Edge Pro Sharpener.

I am looking at The Tormec Sharpening system. It is electric runs at 80 RPMS and uses water to cool while sharpening thereby preventing the temper from being ruined.

It looks really good but I am concerned about the stones. It comes with an Aluminum oxide stone which I am unsure can work with some of my harder steels like S30V, S35VN, S90V, S110V, K390, M390 and CTS-204P.

I know they have additional stones like the Silicone Oxide stone but man they are expensive and I am uncertain what else would be needed to work with Spyderco Military, PM2, Para3, Spydiechefs etc....

Does it require a special holder for smaller Spyderco knives. Hoping someone with experience with his machine can advise. Or perhaps advice a different electric powered water cooled high precision sharpening system?

Thank you.
I have spoken. :)

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Naperville
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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Naperville » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:39 am

I don't know how many here have a Tormek. You can always try to get Pete from the YouTube channel "Cedric and Ada" to respond to your question. His most recent video is HERE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jku8VbnXwv4.
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Lum Tanto, Native Chief(?), Street Beat (AEB-L, NioMax or Nitro-V at 63HRC).

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Fixmeister » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:01 am

I have a Tormek. An early 10” model which differs a little from the ‘T’ series models they currently offer. I think it was called a Supergrind. Anyway...

It works well but will require you to practice... like any system. There are multiple blade holders for a variety of blade lengths. You CAN sharpen FFG Spydercos with it. A short blade isn’t so much a problem, but blade height is. It’s really tough to do a Wenger Swiss Army knife because of how little height there is to work with. Anything else, no problem.

Stones... I used the OEM supplied stone until I wore it out. Then put on an 800 grit Japanese water stone. The problem with either is that the stones go out of true and have to be trued, wasting material.. and time. Solution? Get a CBN wheel on it. They’re about $175. You DON’T use water with them but since CBN is a metal, the stone acts as a heat sink and pulls the sharpening heat away from the edge. The temper will be fine.

The system isn’t cheap but it is fast... much faster than my Wicked Edge and, unless you get crazy with superfine wheels, wont give you a polished edge like a WE or Edge Pro. It in all honesty, I don’t think a polished edge gives you much advantage in real world use. You WILL have to strop the edge to get the burr off and once you do, it will be ridiculously sharp.

If you pull the trigger on one, please use a black marker on the edge and match the factory grind or slightly shallower depending on the steel in your knife. The angle guide they supply will give you a false sense of security and precise angles are a little tricky to determine, but it’s not bad.

I’m doing this from a hospital waiting room as my 2nd grandchild is soon to join us. As time and questions come, I’ll try and respond back.

Tom

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Larry_Mott » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:50 am

One thing i don't get with the Tormek is - why sharpen "away" from the edge?
In the old days when i was a kid there were still a lot of the old huge grinding wheels around, and all the old gentlemen always sharpened with the edge against the rotational direction of the stone, just as you would with a bench stone. Is there a logic reason i am missing for not going "against" the edge?
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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Evil D » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:39 pm

What stones are you using on the setup you currently have? I use Congress Moldmasters on my Edge Pro and they eat through S110V with ease. I just don't trust any powered sharpener, water cooled or not. Faster just means the chances of me destroying the bevel are higher. Realistically I don't have to reprofile my edges often enough to justify what time I'd save. The right stones are vital.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Zatx » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:05 pm

Larry_Mott wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:50 am
One thing i don't get with the Tormek is - why sharpen "away" from the edge?
In the old days when i was a kid there were still a lot of the old huge grinding wheels around, and all the old gentlemen always sharpened with the edge against the rotational direction of the stone, just as you would with a bench stone. Is there a logic reason i am missing for not going "against" the edge?


In reply to this quote:

You can sharpen either way with a Tormec or one of its clones; you can also sharpen away from the edge on stones. There are lots of opinions out there for which direction works "best," but what I've found is that it all comes down to whichever system works best for YOU!

To any would be knife sharpener:

The other truth I've learned over twenty years and thousands of dollars spent on every sharpening system sold is that there are no shortcuts. None. Period. You've got to spend the time and do the work of learning the philosophy of knife sharpening (there are too many key points for me to list). Over your years of learning, you'll occasionally produce tree-topping scary sharp knives, but you won't get speed or consistency until you've got the technique down pat. It's why amateur golfers will sometimes make a hole-in-one, but professional golfers get consistently lower scores.

If you can't get a scary sharp edge with <insert any sharpener here> there is no need to spend another dollar until you can.

To the OP:

If you're looking for speed and you're already good at sharpening, consider the Ken Onion with Blade Grinding Attachment. I can get an insanely sharp near mirror polished edge in 10-15 minutes with it and that includes reprofiling time. Also, for your Hapstone, there is a diamond reprofiling "stone" (it's actually metal) whose name escapes me, that hogs off metal for reprofiling in no time. It took me less than 20 passes per-side to reprofile my S110V PM2.

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:06 pm

Hi Zatx,

I have the Ken onion but do not use it for fear of ruining the temper on my Spydercos. Is this really a concern though? I know knife makers use belts to grind the blades but is that not done before tempering.

When is the final sharpening performed? Would that not be with a belt after tempering? I am a bit confused on these points.
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby kwakster » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:54 pm

Did you know there is a Tormek forum ?

https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:25 pm

kwakster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:54 pm
Did you know there is a Tormek forum ?

https://www.tormek.com/forum/index.php
I had no idea thank you for the link.
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Peter1960 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:17 pm

Larry_Mott wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:50 am
One thing i don't get with the Tormek is - why sharpen "away" from the edge?
The reason for such handling is it creates less burr. For more than 10 years I'm a Tormek user and that is my own experience after a lot of sharpening.
Peter - founding member of Spydiewiki.com

"Integrity is being good even if no one is watching"
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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:46 pm

Peter1960 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:17 pm
Larry_Mott wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:50 am
One thing i don't get with the Tormek is - why sharpen "away" from the edge?
The reason for such handling is it creates less burr. For more than 10 years I'm a Tormek user and that is my own experience after a lot of sharpening.
I just read the aluminum oxide wheel can not handle vanadium carbides as are present in the majority of the Spyderco super stee steels like S30V etc... is this so? What then?
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Fixmeister » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:44 pm

Never had a problem sharpening S30V with the original stone. But the CBN wheels cut better and stay true and flat. They’ll cut anything.

About ‘systems’... what Zatx said. As I said in my earlier post, you HAVE to practice. Buy some cheap thrift store knives and practice. You can really screw an edge up in a hurry with a rotating wheel. Learn it and know it.

Tom

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:12 pm

Oh I get the whole philosophy of use etc. I am a former Mechanic who worked with small engines in machine shops and graduated to the Automotive Industry in short order. I have a feel for machinery :)

Exotic Spyderco Steels however are a different animal. For one thing I have expensive tastes I will buy a $200 to $400.00 knife without bating an eye but want to be sure I am working with them correctly. Respecting the steel and the spirit of the knife.

The Tormec appeals to me in a very primal way. Water stone rotating steel against stone each bringing the best out of each other, I swear I think I need an intervention some days :)
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:17 pm

I've owned a TORMEK for almost 9 years now. I got mine from the people at "www.sharptoolsusa.com">> they used to be here close to where I live but they moved to somewhere in South Missouri. They were great to deal with and I was sad to see them go out of the area. The TORMEK is a high quality, low speed wet grinder.

I originally bought it to sharpen woodworking tools because 10 years ago I was doing some of that and I discovered it was by far the best sharpening tool for all kinds of edged tools like axes, machetes, hatchets and lawnmower blades just to name a few.

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:22 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:17 pm
I've owned a TORMEK for almost 9 years now. I got mine from the people at "www.sharptoolsusa.com">> they used to be here close to where I live but they moved to somewhere in South Missouri. They were great to deal with and I was sad to see them go out of the area. The TORMEK is a high quality, low speed wet grinder.

I originally bought it to sharpen woodworking tools because 10 years ago I was doing some of that and I discovered it was by far the best sharpening tool for all kinds of edged tools like axes, machetes, hatchets and lawnmower blades just to name a few.
How does it work with Spyderco high carbide Steels?

What wheel do you use?

I just saw a video that states it is not good for folding knives is this true?
I have spoken. :)

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:36 pm

Fixmeister wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:44 pm
Never had a problem sharpening S30V with the original stone. But the CBN wheels cut better and stay true and flat. They’ll cut anything.

About ‘systems’... what Zatx said. As I said in my earlier post, you HAVE to practice. Buy some cheap thrift store knives and practice. You can really screw an edge up in a hurry with a rotating wheel. Learn it and know it.

Tom
Oh and congratulations I pray your new Grandchild is both healthy and happy for a life time. :)
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Naperville » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:50 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:22 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:17 pm
I've owned a TORMEK for almost 9 years now. I got mine from the people at "www.sharptoolsusa.com">> they used to be here close to where I live but they moved to somewhere in South Missouri. They were great to deal with and I was sad to see them go out of the area. The TORMEK is a high quality, low speed wet grinder.

I originally bought it to sharpen woodworking tools because 10 years ago I was doing some of that and I discovered it was by far the best sharpening tool for all kinds of edged tools like axes, machetes, hatchets and lawnmower blades just to name a few.
How does it work with Spyderco high carbide Steels?

What wheel do you use?

I just saw a video that states it is not good for folding knives is this true?
I told you above to contact Pete of Cedric and Ada. He has a Tormek and has reviewed it and uses it to sharpen many dozens if not hundreds of different knives that he then tests in cut tests. He can answer all of your questions.

My best guess is that the Tormek with the right stone can sharpen anything. Pete also uses a KME and many different stones. He has videos in his channel of him testing and reviewing all of these systems.
Spyderco Collection: Military (S110V), Bob Lum Darn Dao(CPM-154), Yojimbo 2 (1 in S30V & 2 in 20CV), Sustain(20CV), Native 5(Maxamet), Jumpmaster 2(H1), Province(4V). SHORT LIST: CF Shaman(S90V), Lum Tanto, Native Chief(?), Street Beat (AEB-L, NioMax or Nitro-V at 63HRC).

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Doeswhateveraspidercan
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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:59 pm

Naperville wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:50 pm
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:22 pm
JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:17 pm
I've owned a TORMEK for almost 9 years now. I got mine from the people at "www.sharptoolsusa.com">> they used to be here close to where I live but they moved to somewhere in South Missouri. They were great to deal with and I was sad to see them go out of the area. The TORMEK is a high quality, low speed wet grinder.

I originally bought it to sharpen woodworking tools because 10 years ago I was doing some of that and I discovered it was by far the best sharpening tool for all kinds of edged tools like axes, machetes, hatchets and lawnmower blades just to name a few.
How does it work with Spyderco high carbide Steels?

What wheel do you use?

I just saw a video that states it is not good for folding knives is this true?
I told you above to contact Pete of Cedric and Ada. He has a Tormek and has reviewed it and uses it to sharpen many dozens if not hundreds of different knives that he then tests in cut tests. He can answer all of your questions.

My best guess is that the Tormek with the right stone can sharpen anything. Pete also uses a KME and many different stones. He has videos in his channel of him testing and reviewing all of these systems.
Yes you did and I thank you for that. I love his channel (even prior to your suggestion and was delighted it was he you were suggesting and thought to myself ah now this Naperville has supplied some great insight. )and just watched a video of him using the KME when he got to the Tormec he only used the buffing wheel.

I will most certainly follow your kind advice and contact him but am wanting to hear form actual Spyderco users who are most likely to be present here. To me Spyderco users are first sharpening peoples opinions second as they usually go to the kitchen knife.

I am guessing you are right, it can likely sharpen anything with he right stones and the right attachments. What they are however is the question Thank you very much.
I have spoken. :)

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby Zatx » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:50 pm

Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:06 pm
Hi Zatx,

I have the Ken onion but do not use it for fear of ruining the temper on my Spydercos. Is this really a concern though? I know knife makers use belts to grind the blades but is that not done before tempering.

When is the final sharpening performed? Would that not be with a belt after tempering? I am a bit confused on these points.

You shouldn’t harm your temper with the Ken Onion with the blade grinding attachment. I’ve never gotten the steel to the point that it was even hot to the touch. The key to that system is light pressure (just like every other sharpening technique). You’re holding the blade with your fingers, so you can feel if it starts to get warm. To mess with the temper the steel will be hotter than your capable of holding.

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Re: Tormec Sharpening

Postby cycleguy » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:04 pm

I'm a novice sharpener; I'm not highly skilled with one but have sharpened on a T-4 about a dozen times. As mentioned earlier it will take time to build up the skill. I could get sharp edges fairly quickly and easily but they were far from factory in appearance. My later efforts were noticeably better than my first efforts ... but still not strikingly beautiful and precision.

Knife edge into the rotation of the stone or away from the rotation of the stone is personal preference with each side believing their way is the better way. I was liking knife edge into the stone rotation as I was getting a more consistent/controlled result, HOWEVER, knife edge into the rotation of the stone threw more water around as more of it rolls over the top surface of the blade and into your hold.

You should spend a lot of time researching all the various systems before leaping into one as they all seem to have limitations which may or may not be of concern to you. With the water wheel your grind will never be a flat plane as you are sharpening on a curved surface and will have a small amount of convex into your blade depending more or less on the size of the wheel (radius). Small wheels having more convex (less radius) and larger wheels having less convex (more radius) ... and remember the wheel is wearing and becoming smaller with use.

For a beginner I didn't find the control with it as you have with other systems but felt you could get really good with it freehand over time if you sharpen frequently. If you only occasionally sharpen I think you would be re-learning every time you took it out to use it. The jig (maybe included/maybe not) and angle guide do seem a little non-precision compared to other systems.

Some of my .02,

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!


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