Spyderco Forums

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:48 pm**

Obviously, your best may not be my best, but, in a general sense, when it comes to foods for survival and related situations, where one does not or would not have access to regular cooking facilities and either "normal" prepared foods or fresh food you can prepare, what would you say are the best survival foods in your opinion?

Here are some basic parameters:

1 Has reasonable or very superb long-term storage capability without rotting or "going bad".

2 Can be used in both stationary storage and for mobile use, such as being carried in a back pack or bug out bag.

3 Is reasonably easy to prepare using basic tools such as a portable stove or cooking fire, and water. Or perhaps it may not need water, such as pre-made food bars or MREs.

4 Has decent nutritional value for your needs, a good balance of what is needed to keep the person functioning under stressful and other situations when in survival types of conditions.

There are so many to choose from, from freeze-dried and powder foods and drinks, to canned and others.

I know some people stick by that Mountain House brand.

I will also add this: I could be wrong, but in my opinion, if there was a serious long-term global disaster that encompassed multiple modern nations, such as a global ice age or massive nation-wide power grid blackout, and/or a long-term martial law situation, do you think even the best preppers and survivalists would make out well, or is that more in the realm of fantasy? I have heard both sides argue back and forth; some claim they could survive for decades or longer with the proper bunkers/shelters and access to survival food supplies and water supplies, others claim there is no way that people would survive for more than a few months to a few years and definitely not more than decades, if the entire civilization collapsed.

Posted: **Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:20 pm**

I haven't a clue pardner. Most people here in the Blue Ridge, do a lot of canning. Thier not planning for Armageddon, but canned food does last a good while.

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:17 am**

I and my family eat mountain house, tastes great. Even my picky kids love the taste.

It however isn't as calorie packed as other options.

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:08 am**

I use This https://drytech.no/en/
Lightweight and tastes Great.
When i was in the army we got those as fieldrations, now they use This https://basecampfood.com/collections/be ... aten-track and it taste like **** and have the consistency of it too.
Drytech is the way to go, at least for me.

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:51 am**

There's a youtube channel called MRESteve1989- he tastes test MRES and rations, including opening and eating stuff that's 75 years old. :D

What I've learned from watching his fun stuff is:
1. Storage conditions matter as much as the food type- leave stuff in your garage and let it thermally cycle between summer and winter is a way of wrecking even freeze-dried foods rapidly. A cool, dry, dark environment without moving all the time is best

2. Peanut butter and honey lasts forever. Literally.

3.Anything with milk powder or solids will not last as long as other components

4.Anything acidic (fruit) or salty will eventually eat through steel cans.

5.The oils in nuts will go rancid faster than baked goods- so a good cake might have lasted 30 years in a can is inedible as a result.

6.Military rations have lots of varied components, often in different states of preservation and packaging- the whole otherwise-edible ration can be wrecked by one can of peaches bursting.

7.Stuff we might ordinarily right off as likely to kill us (Say- 1965 Canned Ham from an MCI ration pack) can end up being edible if a little unpalatable.

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:32 am**

Sjucaveman wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:17 am
I and my family eat mountain house, tastes great. Even my picky kids love the taste.

It however isn't as calorie packed as other options.

I've also heard that "Moutain House" is good, high quality food that will last long. I've also heard a couple of survival shows advertise a vendor who is called "The Freezed Dried Guy" and I see their stuff on several websites. Never tried either one of them but have heard good about both of them from people I trust.

Also check out the website "www.stevequayle.com" >> he has a brand called SAFE TREK that I've heard good about and I believe he also has some other stuff as well. One final recommendation>> get food made here in the USA produced under USA safety standards. I've heard horror stories about a lot of the imported survival food. And to the best of my knowledge I believe all those I recommended are made here in the US.

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:35 am**

The mountain house I bought this fall has a best by 2047 date.

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:43 am**

Sjucaveman wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:35 am
The mountain house I bought this fall has a best by 2047 date.

Yeah Mountain House has had a good reputation for over 10 years now and it's usually sold by vendors I trust. Like I said before "The Freeze Dried Guy" also has a good reputation and I've talked to at least 3 people who have tried his stuff as well. Also I've heard that they now have equipment for doing your own "Freeze Drying" that also work very well. Never have done that yet but it is something I've been meaning to look into.

One big advantage is that Freeze Dried food isn't nearly as heavy as canned food is. But if you have a good, safe homestead away from most metro, big city areas then learn to do your own canning like MacLaren was suggesting. If we go into a societal meltdown the bigger cities will become true **** holes in very short order.

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:12 pm**

demoncase, does this mean a person could get, say, a few massive tubs of peanut butter and and honey, as a supplement to other foods, and you can keep those at room temperature on a shelf, and they will not go bad? Will the peanut butter go rancid, though?

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:40 pm**

JD Spydo wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:32 am
One final recommendation

Posted: **Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:03 pm**

Bloke wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:40 pm

JD Spydo wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:32 am
One final recommendation

Yeah BLOKE I still think that one of those EMUs would make for a really tasty Thanksgiving dinner :) Maybe we could get together with your musical cousin Angus Young of ACDC :eek: and I bet him and the other members of the band would help us eat that big bird. Also I bet we could make lady's hats out of those feathers :D Yeah and hear some really good, foot tapping music while we're eating :D

Do you think we could kill one of those with a sling-shot or a throwing knife ???? :D

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:14 pm**

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:12 pm
demoncase, does this mean a person could get, say, a few massive tubs of peanut butter and and honey, as a supplement to other foods, and you can keep those at room temperature on a shelf, and they will not go bad? Will the peanut butter go rancid, though?

if it has sugar and/or salt in it, the shelf life will be much longer.
The peanut fatty acids will eventually go rancid, but having the PB in a dark, opaque container, vacuum sealed, away from heat sources and avoiding temperature shifts (cooling on Winter, heating up on Summer), will make it edible for 5 to 10 years :)

Fats go rancid, grains+fats (crackers, cookies, granola, muesli, buns, pastries) will go bad too, becoming rancid and losing texture, flavor and color quickly. 1 year tops. Nuts and seeds (high fat, little carbs) are next, 2 years at most. :confused:

Fats alone (oils, butters, ghee, chocolate) can last 3 to 5 years in good shape if preserved correctly, away from light, heat and odors. :o

Carbs alone coming from grains will last 2-8 years at most (in their grain from, rice, wheat, bulgur, amaranth, corn...) before becoming unusable, or catching bugs, microbes and fungi in the typical household. SOme are much more perishable than others. Their flours, if well stored, are usable and edible for decades.

Same goes for dried legumes and beans, retaining their nutritional content for up to 10-20 years if well stored, also depends on the beans (some are much more sensitive)

Canned beans (Cooked) and canned veggies, must be kept away from light and heat, and doing so will extend their shelf life up to 6 to 8 years at most (depending on the preservative used, liquid they're stored in, the vegetable or greens in question and container, metallic, glass, plastic, etc.)

They are essential for long term survival due to their vitamins and minerals (mostly Potassium and Calcium, B Vitamins, Vit.C, Vit.K and plant based micronutrients polyphenols, sterols, etc.) but pack little calories for the weight, especially if preserved in water or liquid. :rolleyes:

Canned fish and seafood will last 5 to 8 years at most, has essential fatty acids (Omega 3 and 6), high protein content, sodium (Basic electrolyte like Potassium), Magnesium, Calcium, and pack lots of calories for the size and weight especially if preserved in oil, which can be ingested or used for cooking in survival. :p
Same applies to meat, Spam, canned meats and organ meats, jerky, etc., which lack potassium but have fats, protein, iron, selenium, copper, zinc and manganese)

Sugar, salt, honey, minerals (Potassium, Sodium, Magnesium, Calcium, Iron, Iodine, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Manganese, and a few others that are needed by the body) all last more than a lifetime if kept dried and away from extreme temperatures. :o

Chocolate is a good long shelf life food with lots of energy and compact calories but limited in nutrients, just iron and magnesium. Same applies to cocoa powder, minus the unhealthy sugars. High fat, high protein foods are ideal, mostly dried meats, dried fish, canned seafood and canned fish. :cool:

During long term survival carbohydrates take a secondary role and can be created by the body (gluconeogenesis) and are not essential for life, whereas fats and amino acids (proteins) are needed and must be taken through diet and food. The essential amino acids (9 out of 21 total) must be obtained from food, but the others can be generated or built up by our body in optimal nutrition conditions (some are conditionally non-essential, meaning that even though our body can build them up from the breakdown of other amino acids we can't make them at the rhythm we need them, thus muscle waste and tissue damage will happen)

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:33 pm**

What about freeze dried or dehydrated leafy greens? I imagine making cakes out of a mix of peanut butter and dehydrated spinach would taste like crap but give a lot of what we need that we can't always hunt or forage for. Am i off base?

ThePeacent wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:14 pm

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:12 pm
demoncase, does this mean a person could get, say, a few massive tubs of peanut butter and and honey, as a supplement to other foods, and you can keep those at room temperature on a shelf, and they will not go bad? Will the peanut butter go rancid, though?

if it has sugar and/or salt in it, the shelf life will be much longer.
The peanut fatty acids will eventually go rancid, but having the PB in a dark, opaque container, vacuum sealed, away from heat sources and avoiding temperature shifts (cooling on Winter, heating up on Summer), will make it edible for 5 to 10 years :)

Fats go rancid, grains+fats (crackers, cookies, granola, muesli, buns, pastries) will go bad too, becoming rancid and losing texture, flavor and color quickly. 1 year tops. Nuts and seeds (high fat, little carbs) are next, 2 years at most. :confused:

Fats alone (oils, butters, ghee, chocolate) can last 3 to 5 years in good shape if preserved correctly, away from light, heat and odors. :o

Carbs alone coming from grains will last 2-8 years at most (in their grain from, rice, wheat, bulgur, amaranth, corn...) before becoming unusable, or catching bugs, microbes and fungi in the typical household. SOme are much more perishable than others. Their flours, if well stored, are usable and edible for decades.

Same goes for dried legumes and beans, retaining their nutritional content for up to 10-20 years if well stored, also depends on the beans (some are much more sensitive)

Canned beans (Cooked) and canned veggies, must be kept away from light and heat, and doing so will extend their shelf life up to 6 to 8 years at most (depending on the preservative used, liquid they're stored in, the vegetable or greens in question and container, metallic, glass, plastic, etc.)

They are essential for long term survival due to their vitamins and minerals (mostly Potassium and Calcium, B Vitamins, Vit.C, Vit.K and plant based micronutrients polyphenols, sterols, etc.) but pack little calories for the weight, especially if preserved in water or liquid. :rolleyes:

Canned fish and seafood will last 5 to 8 years at most, has essential fatty acids (Omega 3 and 6), high protein content, sodium (Basic electrolyte like Potassium), Magnesium, Calcium, and pack lots of calories for the size and weight especially if preserved in oil, which can be ingested or used for cooking in survival. :p
Same applies to meat, Spam, canned meats and organ meats, jerky, etc., which lack potassium but have fats, protein, iron, selenium, copper, zinc and manganese)

Sugar, salt, honey, minerals (Potassium, Sodium, Magnesium, Calcium, Iron, Iodine, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Manganese, and a few others that are needed by the body) all last more than a lifetime if kept dried and away from extreme temperatures. :o

Chocolate is a good long shelf life food with lots of energy and compact calories but limited in nutrients, just iron and magnesium. Same applies to cocoa powder, minus the unhealthy sugars. High fat, high protein foods are ideal, mostly dried meats, dried fish, canned seafood and canned fish. :cool:

During long term survival carbohydrates take a secondary role and can be created by the body (gluconeogenesis) and are not essential for life, whereas fats and amino acids (proteins) are needed and must be taken through diet and food. The essential amino acids (9 out of 21 total) must be obtained from food, but the others can be generated or built up by our body in optimal nutrition conditions (some are conditionally non-essential, meaning that even though our body can build them up from the breakdown of other amino acids we can't make them at the rhythm we need them, thus muscle waste and tissue damage will happen)

Posted: **Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:15 pm**

Like I said in an earlier post you can get equipment to "Freeze-Dry" your own foods. I heard of one system costing about $350 or thereabout.

But the more I'm checking into survival type foods I'm liking the concept of "Freeze-Dried" foods. Weight is not a problem and they last an incredibly long time if stored properly. I would also like to learn more about dehydrated foods as well. I've heard that there are a lot of bad MRE's out there and you really want to get those from a very reputable vendor.

Also some of the bases that PEACENT covered are some to be aware of. For instance I love rice and especially Brown, Red and Black rice. Those have a much more nutty and satisfying flavor than white rice and also have a lot more of a nutritional value as well. But the down side to Brown, Red & Black Rice is that they all have a type of oil that goes rancid in a relatively short period of time. I've heard that 6 to 8 months max even under ideal conditions. Not sure about dried beans. I think they have a considerably longer shelf life. To put it bluntly food preservation is a really huge factor in selecting survival type foods.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:54 pm**

Honey, beans and rice. Add some spices and you're set. I keep 10 gallons of beans and 10 of rice. Other niceties include dehydrated egg yolks, hamburger and milk. I also have MRE's and other meals in a freezer. If you need antibiotics you can cross reference fish antibiotics as they are human grade. I've been into survival longer than any other focus so much I secretly wish for a catastrophe just to rotate stock.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:28 pm**

Oh, I forgot salt. Make sure you have a good amount.

And a knife. :eek:

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:45 pm**

Hey SEF I do believe this is great timing>> Today I was reading my new issue of the "BACKWOODSMAN" magazine>> it is the Nov/Dec 2018 issue and it is loaded with some great articles in this issue. There is an article on page 18 of the current issue entitled "The Ultimate Survival Food" by Frederick Van Sickle. This is one of the most comprehensive articles about "Survival Food" that I have read in quite some time.

He covers so many gamuts of survival food and the wide varieties of different foods to forage on. There is also a section on "wheat grass" and how to juice different foods. What I really find most interesting is that the article stresses on optimal nutrition and eating for survival rather than eating for tastes. And that's a concept that we here in the western world have drifted away from.

Also I've been doing a lot of searching in many of my older survival type magazines and books. The subject of "Foraging" is something I'm finding to be extremely interesting and it also focuses on optimal vitamin, mineral and nutritional aspects rather than what tastes good.

P.S. the website of the BACKWOODSMAN is >> www.backwoodsmanmag.com << . It can be found on most major newsstands.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:05 am**

SEF, there are a lot of books available on this subject such as https://www.amazon.com/Food-Storage-Bib ... rage+bible That is just one of many on this topic. The topic itself used to get one ridiculed and people would bring up the "survivalist" stereotype so often seen in movies like "Tremors" but it has become more accepted since Katrina and various other disasters as well as the topic of climate change causing famines sometime in the future. The government now recommends anywhere from a 3 day supply to a 2 week supply depending on who and where one is.

Everybody should be prepared for at least a tornado, hurricane or ice storm outage which means more than just food. It can be anything between a weekend chore to a way of life depending on the person. Certainly a head of a family should be prepared to safeguard and provide for that family for whatever time frame seems needed.

Joe

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:13 am**

Ration bars are great for shelter in place where there will likely be limited water (car, boat, storm shelter, bunker, etc). They are non thirst provoking and provide a lot of calories and vitamins for the size, and are pretty resilient in less than perfect storage conditions. However, they don't provide much energy or protein to power you over long distance movements and are fairly heavy compared to other food sources, so a no go for hiking.

Most walmarts have a kind of ration bar in the outdoor section that is actually very affordable and good quality compared to other ration bars. I keep one in the car.

Posted: **Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:17 pm**

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:12 pm
demoncase, does this mean a person could get, say, a few massive tubs of peanut butter and and honey, as a supplement to other foods, and you can keep those at room temperature on a shelf, and they will not go bad? Will the peanut butter go rancid, though?

Provided both are sealed in a vacuum filled container like a can or similar- conceivably, yes.

As both have no free water, meaning bacteria and funghi can't get anything to grow.
Peanut butter is salty and honey is nearly pure sugar- meaning both are really hard place for the single cells of bateria to survive due to osmotic pressure.

Oils go rancid due to being attacked by heat, light and oxygen- remove those and you are pretty much putting the oils into stasis.....

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