Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

If your topic has nothing to do with Spyderco, you can post it here.
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#1

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

In this type of situation, what is the best thing to do to protect yourself?

You are walking alone whether in an urban or rural setting and you notice an individual who was loitering in the vicinity, immediately begin to follow you, and even at a fast-paced angle in your direction, and you sense and can see the person is of a violent predatory inclination, and coming in your direction, with roughly a few tens of feet between themself and you.

How would you all respond to such a definitely perceived threat and make sure you 1 Stay safe and whatever outcome is in your favor for the protection of your person and property,

2 make sure you are not over-reacting and the person did not intend to physically attack you.

I welcome all answers.
User avatar
knivesandbooks
Member
Posts: 1455
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:43 pm
Location: Tulsa, OK

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#2

Post by knivesandbooks »

Get away as fast as can be.
Get around other people if possible.
Maybe call someone. Can create a sort if virtual witness.
Don't freak out.
Be prepared to surrender that wallet.
Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and on those in the tombs bestowing life!
User avatar
TkoK83Spy
Member
Posts: 12449
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#3

Post by TkoK83Spy »

With a wrestling and football background, I would probably try to defend myself...depending if I could tell if they had a weapon or not. If they had a gun, very large knife, chain, bat etc. I would probably surrender what they wanted. If they pulled a knife, well I always have a knife as well. Never would want to think of or be in that situation though, and would hope the assailant would back down realizing I was also carrying a knife.

If it were strictly hand to hand combat, I would take my chances. As my father said when I was a teenager. If you know you're going to be in a fight...be the first one to throw the punch and don't come home crying :p

Not trying to sound like some macho tough guy, people are wired with the "fight or flight" instinct. I've been handed the fight.
Last edited by TkoK83Spy on Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
15 :bug-red 's in 10 different steels
1 - Bradford Guardian 3 / Vanadis 4E Wharnie
1 - Monterey Bay Knives Slayback Flipper / ZDP 189
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31/Macassar Ebony Inlays
1 - CRK Large Inkosi Insingo/ Black Micarta Inlays
1 - CRK Small Sebenza 31 Insingo/Magnacut

-Rick
User avatar
The Deacon
Member
Posts: 25717
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Upstate SC, USA
Contact:

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#4

Post by The Deacon »

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:41 am
In this type of situation, what is the best thing to do to protect yourself?

You are walking alone whether in an urban or rural setting and you notice an individual who was loitering in the vicinity, immediately begin to follow you, and even at a fast-paced angle in your direction,

Old and slow, so running is not an option and neither is any defense that involves physical contact. So, at this point, my left hand would go into my front pocket and I'd be checking for cover and for other threats.

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:41 am
you sense and can see the person is of a violent predatory inclination, and coming in your direction,

At this point would come in contact with the grip of the handgun residing there.

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:41 am
with roughly a few tens of feet between themself and you.
At this point it would get a solid grip on the gun while, at the same time, my right hand would go up in the universal STOP gesture and I would say "STOP, do not come any closer" loudly.

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:41 am
How would you all respond to such a definitely perceived threat and make sure you 1 Stay safe and whatever outcome is in your favor for the protection of your person and property,

2 make sure you are not over-reacting and the person did not intend to physically attack you.

I welcome all answers.

At that point, if they continued to advance, the gun would come out, and, depending on their reaction to that, either stay in my hand until they were out of sight, or go off as many times as necessary to end the threat.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#5

Post by MichaelScott »

Run. But wait, my wheelchair isn’t motorized.
Assume defense posture. Nope, that **** wheelchair again.
Face threat with hand on gun.
iPhone comes out, “Siri, cal 911.”
Yell, “Stop. Don’t come closer!”
Comes closer. Gun comes out.
The rest depends on what happens next.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#6

Post by JD Spydo »

It was about 8 years ago now ( sure doesn't seem that long) when I was held up at gunpoint here in Kansas City, MO. I even had a thread here on the forum about it. I do believe that the one thing that might have put the situation slightly in my favor was that I was able to show "no fear" at all. Reason being I truly thought I was dead anyway because they had a few deadly holdups in KC at that particular time. It was 2 illegal aliens that held me up with a handgun and they could just barely say the word "money" in English :rolleyes: And at the time I didn't have much money on me.

I was in my pickup truck when the two leveled the handgun at me and all I had for defense was a Cold Steel Gurkha Kukri at the time. I'm not at all trying to sound like a super brave guy or a macho man but I immediately took that "no fear" attitude because I truly thought I was dead anyway. I truly thought they were going to kill me no matter whether I gave into their demands or not. I immediately kicked one of them backward as they were trying to enter through the driver's side door. I got the Gurkha Kukri which I had on the floor of the truck and went out like a mad man who was losing it mentallly. Much to my surprise they both backed off quickly. I was screaming to the top of my lungs and got my friends attention who was parked next to me sleeping.

I went after one of them with the big blade and much to my amazement the guy with the gun ran behind my truck :confused: I took a big swing at the other guy with the Gurkha Kukri and I don't think I missed him by more that 2 to 3 inches max and his eyes got about as big as diner plates :eek: and much to my relief my friend who was in the van parked next to me came out with what looked like a gun but it was a ball bat and those cowards ran like extremely scared chickens and thus we successfully thwarted the hold up ( Thank GOD above).

I didn't put this testimony up to make myself look cool and brave because on the inside I was very scared but I truly thought I was dead anyway and I didn't want to go down without a fight and I believe it was my pro-active actions that bluffed them out and might have saved my rear end. I'm saying all of that to let everyone know that if you can control your fear factor I do believe it will help in most every situation like that>> well at least most of them anyway. I hope none of you have to go through anything like that because I couldn't sleep for about 3 days afterwards.
The Meat man
Member
Posts: 5856
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#7

Post by The Meat man »

That is an incredible story JD. Thank God you were not injured or worse!
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
Bodog
Member
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:03 am
Location: Tierra del Sol, USA Earth

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#8

Post by Bodog »

JD Spydo wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:40 am
It was about 8 years ago now ( sure doesn't seem that long) when I was held up at gunpoint here in Kansas City, MO. I even had a thread here on the forum about it. I do believe that the one thing that might have put the situation slightly in my favor was that I was able to show "no fear" at all. Reason being I truly thought I was dead anyway because they had a few deadly holdups in KC at that particular time. It was 2 illegal aliens that held me up with a handgun and they could just barely say the word "money" in English :rolleyes: And at the time I didn't have much money on me.

I was in my pickup truck when the two leveled the handgun at me and all I had for defense was a Cold Steel Gurkha Kukri at the time. I'm not at all trying to sound like a super brave guy or a macho man but I immediately took that "no fear" attitude because I truly thought I was dead anyway. I truly thought they were going to kill me no matter whether I gave into their demands or not. I immediately kicked one of them backward as they were trying to enter through the driver's side door. I got the Gurkha Kukri which I had on the floor of the truck and went out like a mad man who was losing it mentallly. Much to my surprise they both backed off quickly. I was screaming to the top of my lungs and got my friends attention who was parked next to me sleeping.

I went after one of them with the big blade and much to my amazement the guy with the gun ran behind my truck :confused: I took a big swing at the other guy with the Gurkha Kukri and I don't think I missed him by more that 2 to 3 inches max and his eyes got about as big as diner plates :eek: and much to my relief my friend who was in the van parked next to me came out with what looked like a gun but it was a ball bat and those cowards ran like extremely scared chickens and thus we successfully thwarted the hold up ( Thank GOD above).

I didn't put this testimony up to make myself look cool and brave because on the inside I was very scared but I truly thought I was dead anyway and I didn't want to go down without a fight and I believe it was my pro-active actions that bluffed them out and might have saved my rear end. I'm saying all of that to let everyone know that if you can control your fear factor I do believe it will help in most every situation like that>> well at least most of them anyway. I hope none of you have to go through anything like that because I couldn't sleep for about 3 days afterwards.
This.

I came here to say this. Once you have it in your mind that, live or die, you're going to give them a bite they're going to regret, usually they'll run off. It's only those more sadistic or those willing to die to get what you have that will stand and fight for your stuff no matter what that will overcome. Most expect you to be unwilling to die to defend yourself and your property. Show them otherwise.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#9

Post by JD Spydo »

Hey thanks Bodog and thank you Meat man for both your kind words of encouragement. And please believe me I'm in no way trying to sound like I'm Chuck Norris or Clint Eastwood because for the most part I'm really just an average guy about 5'10" and weigh about a 175. But I do want you all to know first hand that if something like a mugging or robbery ever does happen I'm here to tell you that things transpire so fast you must be able to think and act quickly because what you do and say may save your life. I believe it was the Good Lord above looking after me as he has most of my adult life.

And it's getting worse out there too. I'm still in touch and I still volunteer with my minister friend at the shelter in Northeast KC where this happened at. And it is one really mean, dangerous environment in that part of town. You've just got to have somewhat of a game plan before something like that happens. Thinking that the very worst was going to happen to me might have been what ultimately saved me. Along with the words of wisdom that "Brother "Bodog" shared with us. I got a feeling he's been there and done that by the sound of his words ;) And wisdom will ultimately play a key role in a dire situation like that. Plus to brag just a little bit I think my act of being mentally deranged might have caught them just a little off guard.

But you don't have to be in a bad part of town to meet the monsters of our sick society. We had an entire shopping mall close down due to all the women being raped in a 5 year period ( Bannister Mall). It is not immoral to be armed and ready to defend yourself and your family. SEF I'm really glad you decided to talk about this subject because again I'm here to tell all of you first hand that it's getting meaner by the day especially in these major cities.
A.S.
Member
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:24 am
Location: Alabama

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#10

Post by A.S. »

I still believe one of the smartest moves, if you spend time in those kind of neighborhoods, is to have a dummy wallet on you. I've thankfully never had to use mine, but know its a grab and go transaction those types are after.

Otherwise, I always have a blade or two on my person just in case.
Bodog
Member
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:03 am
Location: Tierra del Sol, USA Earth

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#11

Post by Bodog »

JD Spydo wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:22 pm
.
I feel like I've always been at peace with God and that when it's my time to meet him, it's my time to meet him and no amount of sniveling or begging or even outlandish bravado will change that. Through the sometimes retarded crap I've done that threatened my life, and as much as i believe my own spirit can kneel in front of the Man with a sense of confidence and humility, i don't want my son following in my footsteps. I want the Man to know i did what i could to make Him, my family, and myself proud. If my son does, i want him to embrace life while he's alive but fight like he's already dead, much like you had to do. Try to take everything from a man and he will fight like a caged animal, even if he's outnumbered and carrying only a knife in a gunfight. That's the sweetest nectar of life, when living like we have nothing to lose. Those moments of sheer desperation bring the fondest memories. The memories most revered, revealing, and reviling.

Stories like yours inspire me. Humanity is so much more capable than they're led to believe. It is always good to hear stories of men being men, without the media interfering and castrating us as a sex. Thank you for sharing. It gives me hope. I'd love to hear more. I hesitate to share my own stories because of the stigma knife forumites have attached to my name.

Kudos to you and those like you, sung and unsung, who defy the odds and show what real spirit is, be it in the jungles of Vietnam or the urban streets of third world America. We should all salute people with stories like yours. People with stories like these are the saving grace of humanity. I'm absolutely serious and say it knowing how cheesy it sounds. These kinds of stories are the real songs of humanity.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
User avatar
tvenuto
Member
Posts: 3790
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:16 am
Location: South Baltimore

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#12

Post by tvenuto »

I'm going to follow Mr. Miyagi's advice: "don't be there."
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#13

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

Thank you. These are some very sobering, serious, and well-thought out responses. JD: Thank God you are safe and survived that horrible attempted assault and mugging from those evil people.

That is horrible what you mentioned about the rapes on the women in the mall. What can be done to stop these attacks there and in other places?
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#14

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

tvenuto wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:11 pm
I'm going to follow Mr. Miyagi's advice: "don't be there."
This is very good advice if one can avoid the situation in the first place. But as you know, sometimes a person cannot avoid it, or, it comes on as a surprise. Alertness and awareness is very vital, though, so you are correct.
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#15

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

Bodog, you made a very good point here as well:

You said:

"
I came here to say this. Once you have it in your mind that, live or die, you're going to give them a bite they're going to regret, usually they'll run off. It's only those more sadistic or those willing to die to get what you have that will stand and fight for your stuff no matter what that will overcome. Most expect you to be unwilling to die to defend yourself and your property. Show them otherwise."

That does seem to be very much the case with people. A security trained person once told me that in the eyes of the violent predatory street type of people, if a person shows that they are in some sense "crazier than them" and willing to "fight it to the end", that would convince them to leave one alone; unless, as you pointed out, they are either so sadistic, or, violently crazy themselves, or willing to call one's bluff.
User avatar
The Mastiff
Member
Posts: 5936
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:53 am
Location: raleigh nc

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#16

Post by The Mastiff »

That is horrible what you mentioned about the rapes on the women in the mall. What can be done to stop these attacks there and in other places?
Top
Making examples of those convicted will help. At least the repeat offenders anyways which is a big percentage. Note I'm talking about predatory serial rapists and not 15 year old kids caught having sex with their 14-15 year old girlfriend which is rape by law in many places. There are other ways to deal with that.

I'd recommend crucifixion as a means of capital punishment. It puts true fear into people because it is so horrible. Sometimes it's better to make an example than to set an example IMO. I don't think the things that will really work are acceptable in our culture now. Teaching women they don't need to be victims might help. They are as capable with firearms as men when so inclined. Once again many find this not to their liking.



Joe
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#17

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

The Mastiff wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:31 pm
That is horrible what you mentioned about the rapes on the women in the mall. What can be done to stop these attacks there and in other places?
Top
Making examples of those convicted will help. At least the repeat offenders anyways which is a big percentage. Note I'm talking about predatory serial rapists and not 15 year old kids caught having sex with their 14-15 year old girlfriend which is rape by law in many places. There are other ways to deal with that.

I'd recommend crucifixion as a means of capital punishment. It puts true fear into people because it is so horrible. Sometimes it's better to make an example than to set an example IMO. I don't think the things that will really work are acceptable in our culture now. Teaching women they don't need to be victims might help. They are as capable with firearms as men when so inclined. Once again many find this not to their liking.



Joe
I agree with you Mastiff. Very good points. I am also an advocate for publick executions of such proven violent offenders who murder and rape people. Crucifixion, Hanging, and Electrification. Also plasma immersion would be a good one that would really send a mental shock-wave into the hearts of those who ponder assaulting people. This could be done with existing technology:

Plasma is simply a super heated gas of molecules contained within an electromagnetic field. Picture a large and very energetic plasma-generation system and some form of remote-controlled opening and closing valve, and a way to contain the plasma, perhaps within a large transparent chamber. The proven guilty murderer or rapist or molester is suspended on a crane like device above the chamber, his or her sentence is read out, with all the public watching, even televise it. The perpetrator is given a short time to speak with his or her religious or faith leader of choice, one last meal, and/or their desire not to talk to anyone. No appeal processes. All of it happens within a few days to a few weeks at the very absolute most.

Then before the eyes of anyone who cares to watch, local and internationally, the murderer/rapist/molester, is lowered or dropped into the super heated plasma system; look what plasma cutters do to the hardest metals and stone. No form of pain reliever or knock-out allowed. He or she is literally melted in the super heated plasma furnace.

Then the broadcasted message is given: "This is what will definitely be done to any offender who commits these crimes."

What would happen?

Here is one image of such a plasma furnace. A cruder one than the type I envision:
PlasmaArcFurnace.jpg
PlasmaArcFurnace.jpg (9.6 KiB) Viewed 2722 times
Bodog
Member
Posts: 1752
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:03 am
Location: Tierra del Sol, USA Earth

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#18

Post by Bodog »

We're too soft as a culture to do what needs to be done.
They who dance are thought mad by those who do not hear the music.
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#19

Post by JD Spydo »

Looking back and pondering that incident of a little over 8 years ago there were two elements to the entire episode that I still am amazed with. First and foremost was the speed in which it all happened. There truly was little time to think. It wasn't as fast as a car accident because that's a completely different dynamic all together. But there was just no time to put a strategy in place>> you have to pretty much go with the flow because I'm sure every crime, mugging, rape, murder, robbery are all different to some degree. Second this developed literally out of the blue without any warning.

I'm to the point now I try to be somewhat prepared for meeting people from the dark side of society at any time and at any place. And with 20 to 25 million illegal aliens currently in this country you must realize that a hefty percentage of those have criminal intent. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The incident that happened to me was truly a life changer and put me in touch with a phase of reality that I had taken for granted up to that point. I'm 100% for an armed citizenry whether it be knives, guns, chemical weapons or whatever it takes to insure you come home unharmed at the end of every day. On that night I learned just how precious life is and how fragile it is.

I hope this thread continues and I hope we have a lot of contributions that will help all of us be prepared. Brother "Tvenuto" who I dearly like and respect made mention of the fact that avoidance may indeed be your best bet. Can't argue that but in many ways however I don't think it's completely possible to be assured of that anymore. I will say that as this society gets meaner I seriously doubt if that is any longer a viable option in many cases because this type of scenario takes place virtually everywhere now. Here in Blue Springs, Missouri ( Kansas City suburb) which was once deemed to be one of the safest communities in the entire state in the past 10 years has had murders, rapes, child molestations, drug deals that have gone terribly awry and dozens if not hundreds of horrible domestic abuse cases. I've got two long time pals who work for the Police Dept here in Blue Springs and I was shocked to hear first hand what now takes place in the seemingly docile village I grew up in. It's just a different time and the rules have changed in many ways. You must be prepared!! that is the ultimate bottom line
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Best Defense in attempted mugging/assault?

#20

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

JD, without getting political and too philosophical, would you say one of the core reasons for the rise in such violent crimes is the mass-spreading of the belief in "moral relativism", the idea that "what makes me feel good is right for me, regardless of how you feel or think", and variations of that? It seems to me to be so hypocritical. On one hand, people teach that moral relativism, and try to act it out, and then on the other hand, people become outraged when their person and property is violated or when they perceive an injustice is done. It seems that society would be alot more stable if people all agreed that there is a universal right and a universal wrong standard, and people sought to abide by that, and to seek to treat their fellow people as they want to be treated, with respect and love and care. But alas, that is not the situation, is it my friend?

History is full of horrific evils, vile attacks and assaults, and other things, too. Noone can say "Well there were the good old days when none of that happened." Either it was suppressed from being acted out in the open, and/or it was happening behind closed doors.

I once spoke on the internet to a man who seemed to be quite educated, and, chillingly to me, he told me he does not believe there is such a thing as universal standards of right and wrong, of morality. He actually said everything is relative and subjective. He told me there is no difference between a person eating a pizza and a person eating a human being. I asked him if he was serious and he said yes. Then I asked him "Is it wrong to steal and kill?" and he said "no, there is no right or wrong. Its a figment of your imagination." Finally i asked him "okay, what if someone went up to your prized car, and took a sledge hammer, and began to smash in the windows and the hood and the headlights, just for their own personal sense of pleasure? Is that wrong?" He said "Nope. But I would go and pummel them into the ground!" Do you think that attitude is more prevalent than we think or not?
Post Reply