All steel is modified iron, and all synthetics are modified wood/bone?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Would you say that all steel no matter how advanced the alloy or formulation is just modified iron?

And would you say all synthetic handle materials are all manmade "modifications" of wood and bone and natural materials?

And where does "iron and brass" fit in?

Do you notice that contrary to common views, brass is still an exemplary metal and is considered "luxury"?

[tvenuto]

No. The iron is not modified in the creation of steel.

No. There is no reason to conclude that a material is just a “modified” version of a completely different material.

Iron is an element. Brass is an alloy. Unless “iron and brass” is a phrase that denotes something I’m not familiar with.

This sentence is contradictory.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What percentage iron is any given steel? That answers the question about iron being modified steel.

Iron and brass are two of the most primordial materials used by people in civilization.

[supracor]

No. The iron is not modified in the creation of steel.

Pure iron at room temperature has a certain crystal structure (Ferrite); Carbon modifies it even in very small quantities.
You can find a lot of informations on these mineralogical phases in some pubblications about Ferrous Meteorites.

[tvenuto]

No. The iron is not modified in the creation of steel.

Pure iron at room temperature has a certain crystal structure (Ferrite); Carbon modifies it even in very small quantities.
You can find a lot of informations on these mineralogical phases in some pubblications about Ferrous Meteorites.

We’re getting into semantics at this point. I’m aware of the structural changes that take place in alloys. The iron is still iron, is my point. Are you “modified carbon?” No, carbon is one of your constituents.

@SEF I fear for you sometimes with these posts. If you’re painting or varnishing be sure to ventilate the area!

[supracor]

So are you saying that anthracite and diamonds are the same thing?

Semantics isn't a bad thing. If Iron has a structure and this structure changes, then it become an Iron modification.

[The Mastiff]

I thought Iron is an element. Brass and steel are alloys. Where did I go wrong?

Joe

[The Mastiff]

By the way my paternal grandfather died from black lung mining anthracite in Ashley PA. "Blue Coal" brand in particular. Man has that place changed since the mines closed down. They even tore down the breaker there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huber_Breaker They even removed the giant hills of slag that surrounded the town and constantly were on fire leaving the whole place smelling of sulfur. I used to enjoy watching the constant stream of rail cars coming and going on the now also no more Central Railroad of New Jersey taking the coal on to NYC and NJ .

Joe

[Tucson Tom]

I would say it is pretty accurate that steel is modified iron. The main component of all steels is indeed iron. Steel is an alloy the principal component of which is iron. But there are complications since some of the simplest steels are iron with added carbon, and alloys are in general mixtures of different metals and carbon is not a metal. Calling steel modified iron certainly works for me.

Brass is more clear cut -- it is an alloy of copper and zinc.

Now what you say about synthetic handle materials being modified wood and bone sounds pretty off the wall.

[tvenuto]

So are you saying that anthracite and diamonds are the same thing?

Semantics isn't a bad thing. If Iron has a structure and this structure changes, then it become an Iron modification.

First I will say that SEF is tickled pink to generate this level of debate with his original post.

Second I will say that I'm mostly responding for the benefit of others who might read this, it's clear that you are interested in "winning."

This is what is known as a "straw man argument." You've applied an interpretation to what I said that is more easily defended or shown to be false. I never said that steel and iron were the "same thing" or that two structural forms of iron were the "same thing" in every particular. However, to your question, if you mean the element then: yes, anthracite and diamonds are made of the same thing as they are both carbon. They are not the same object, but they are made of the same stuff. It's clear that there are two semantic interpretations of both your question and SEF's original question, and neither is more correct than the other. However, if you choose to believe that by saying anthracite and diamond are made of the same element, I mean that they are exactly the same object, then you can indeed twist my correct statement into an incorrect one: the straw man argument logical fallacy.

[supracor]

I knew well before replying that all this would have resulted in a sort of buridan's *** :D