Missing 411: Really Strange

If your topic has nothing to do with Spyderco, you can post it here.
User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#41

Post by MichaelScott »

SEF, I don’t see how Goodall could not have known. She lived among and studied that chimpanzee community for decades. That suggests that she had non scientific reasons for not reporting that behavior. I don’t know what those reasons were.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation
SpyderScout
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:35 pm

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#42

Post by SpyderScout »

JD Spydo wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:29 am

Hey Brother I'm glad you brought that up. Because I've seen about 3 documentaries on that incident of the Russian students in 1959 who all under very mysterious circumstances were brutally murdered and some died of exposure. One of the women had her tongue removed and some of the others were mauled by some type of animal. One of those documentaries actually showed a note written by one of the deceased students saying "THE SNOWMAN LIVES".

We here in the USA supposedly have our "bigfoot" whereas the folks over in Asia have what they call the "YETI". But that mass murder of those Russian students has really baffled me over the years. And many of the testimonies that David Paulides has come forth with are just as weird, mysterious and un-explainable as that "Dyatlov Pass" massacre from 1959 seems to be as well.
According to SNOPES, the Dyatlov Snowman angle is a hoax - or in the words of Snopes; a wacky hypothesis.

Make of Snopes what you will but the 'documentary' mentioned by Snopes smacks of more Discovery Channel material the vein of the Discovery 'Mermaid' idiocy described in my former post.

I hope the documentary you refer to, is not by Discovery Channel.
Discovery does not posses an iota of credibility.

Snopes on Dyatlov:

Yeti

The wackiest hypothesis to date is that proposed in a June 2014 Discovery Channel “documentary” called (spoiler alert!) Russian Yeti: The Killer Lives.

Discovery: "On February 2, 1959, nine college students hiked up the icy slopes of the Ural Mountains in the heart of Russia but never made it out alive. Investigators have never been able to give a definitive answer behind who — or what — caused the bizarre crime scene. Fifty-five years later, American explorer Mike Libecki reinvestigates the mystery — known as The Dyatlov Pass incident — but what he uncovers is truly horrifying.

[…]

Following the trail of evidence, Mike finds proof that the hikers were not alone — a photograph, taken by one of the hikers a day before they died that suggests that they encountered a Yeti."

Snopes continued; Yes, you read that right. According to the Discovery Channel, the Dyatlov group met their deaths at the hands of a Yeti, also known as the Abominable Snowman or, if you prefer, simply Bigfoot.

Full Snopes article debunking the Dyatlov Snowman angle etc:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/12/28/ ... -incident/
User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#43

Post by MichaelScott »

Seems like an avalanche is the most reasonable explanation. Beats yetis or fireballs.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#44

Post by JD Spydo »

Well something tore out that one woman's tongue and something mauled some of the students to death. All 3 of the documentaries I seen on that disaster all confirmed those findings. No avalanche would tear out a woman's tongue or violently/brutally murder the ones that they found mauled. I also find it curious that to this day in the year 2018 that the Russian Government won't release much information on the event :confused:

Something or some animal killed those students that were mauled>> doubt if it was a bear because in mid winter they are in hibernation. There have been documented incidents of Siberian Tigers but I've heard that they are getting extremely rare and at one time they were close to extinction>> but none the less it is a valid possibility that a Siberian Tiger could have done it. But I've never heard of any of the big cats ever ripping out someone's tongue :confused: . The one History Channel Documentary I seen 4 years back where that man and woman team did an extensive investigation and they were stumped as to what actually happened to those Russian Students in 1959>> also they had hardly no cooperation at all trying to get more detailed information from the Government sources. HMMM? kind of like they have done to David Paulides with many of these extremely weird disappearances in many of these National Parks here in the USA.
Sjucaveman
Member
Posts: 1158
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:00 pm
Location: Central Mn

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#45

Post by Sjucaveman »

JD Spydo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:24 pm
Well something tore out that one woman's tongue and something mauled some of the students to death. All 3 of the documentaries I seen on that disaster all confirmed those findings. No avalanche would tear out a woman's tongue or violently/brutally murder the ones that they found mauled. I also find it curious that to this day in the year 2018 that the Russian Government won't release much information on the event :confused:

Something or some animal killed those students that were mauled>> doubt if it was a bear because in mid winter they are in hibernation. There have been documented incidents of Siberian Tigers but I've heard that they are getting extremely rare and at one time they were close to extinction>> but none the less it is a valid possibility that a Siberian Tiger could have done it. But I've never heard of any of the big cats ever ripping out someone's tongue :confused: . The one History Channel Documentary I seen 4 years back where that man and woman team did an extensive investigation and they were stumped as to what actually happened to those Russian Students in 1959>> also they had hardly no cooperation at all trying to get more detailed information from the Government sources. HMMM? kind of like they have done to David Paulides with many of these extremely weird disappearances in many of these National Parks here in the USA.
However if a bear were for some reason not hibernating at that time of year it would likely be agitated/ hungry.
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 4:13
Adam
User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#46

Post by MichaelScott »

A basic Internet search will reveal that the history channel and the discovery channel are not credible reporters of fact. They deal primarily in sensationalism. The original investigators found that all of the students had died from hypothermia. The woman in question was found facedown in running water and had been there for days. Nearly all of the soft tissue of her face including her eyes, lips and what was left of her tongue were badly deteriorated or missing. The most reasonable explanation is that her body was partially consumed by scavengers.

Also the fact that some of the tents were cut open and some of the students were found dressed without shoes and in their underwear some distance from the camp indicates that they were likely fleeing from an avalanche. The crushed bodies of some of the students can be explained by being pounded by about 4 m of snow and ice.

Although no one will know for sure what actually happened no credible investigators have concluded that some kind of big foot Yeti was responsible. That makes a good story but that’s all it is, a story.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation
SpyderScout
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:35 pm

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#47

Post by SpyderScout »

JD Spydo wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:24 pm
Well something tore out that one woman's tongue and something mauled some of the students to death. All 3 of the documentaries I seen on that disaster all confirmed those findings. No avalanche would tear out a woman's tongue or violently/brutally murder the ones that they found mauled. I also find it curious that to this day in the year 2018 that the Russian Government won't release much information on the event :confused:

Something or some animal killed those students that were mauled>> doubt if it was a bear because in mid winter they are in hibernation. There have been documented incidents of Siberian Tigers but I've heard that they are getting extremely rare and at one time they were close to extinction>> but none the less it is a valid possibility that a Siberian Tiger could have done it. But I've never heard of any of the big cats ever ripping out someone's tongue :confused: . The one History Channel Documentary I seen 4 years back where that man and woman team did an extensive investigation and they were stumped as to what actually happened to those Russian Students in 1959>> also they had hardly no cooperation at all trying to get more detailed information from the Government sources. HMMM? kind of like they have done to David Paulides with many of these extremely weird disappearances in many of these National Parks here in the USA.
Again, seems you are leaning towards the Discovery Channel take on the Dyatlov Incident.

From my link above;

“When I found out one of the students was missing a tongue immediately I knew this was not caused by an avalanche,” Libecki said. “Something ripped out the tongue of this woman.”
That something, Libecki naturally concluded, could only have been a Yeti. As further evidence, he presented an alleged photo of the Yeti (displayed in the tweet below) snapped by a member of the Dyatlov expedition:

(fuzzy picture of person)

But no matter how many times one hears the out-of-focus figure described as a “Yeti,” or a “creature,” or something other than human, the fact remains that it resembles nothing so much as an ordinary, adult male human being. And no matter how many times one repeats the claim that the only reasonable explanation for one of the Dyatlov bodies missing a tongue is that a Yeti pulled it out, it pales beside the straightforward hypothesis that her tongue was devoured by a scavenging animal or decomposed due to constant contact with the stream of running water where the body was found.
In any case, it wasn’t just the tongue that was missing. According to the Dyatlov autopsy reports, also missing was some soft tissue around the woman’s eyes, eyebrows, nose bridge, upper lip, and cheek bone — not to mention the eyes themselves.
The problem with proposing Yeti attacks and killer UFOs as the answer to the Dyatlov puzzle is obvious: They render it more mysterious, not less. And while isn’t entirely implausible that secret government shenanigans were in play (we are talking about the Cold War-era Soviet Union, after all), even that is speculative overreach insofar as it is based on assumptions, not evidence.


Again, Discovery Channel does not have an iota of credibility.
JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 23532
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#48

Post by JD Spydo »

I never said a YETI pulled anyone's tongue out :rolleyes: I was just making the observation that it was rather strange that one woman did have her tongue pulled out and according to what I heard on all the documentaries I heard on it that is what happened. And if that's true I do find it kind of odd
that one of the victims would have had their tongue removed. That's not normal at most murder scenes. **** even the Manson family never cut anyone's tongue out :rolleyes: I think any normal thinking person would deem that to be kind of odd. For all I really know and can really prove the entire incident may not have even happened if you all want to get that nit-picky about it.

I started this thread on David Paulides and his work on extremely strange and totally unexplained disappearances in National Parks. But no one wants to address that at all. I thought it would make for some interesting discussion. And I'm willing to bet that not one of you has even looked at so much as one of his videos. You couldn't make stuff like this up. People missing and they find their clothes neatly folded in extremely cold and hostile environments and you all don't even think that's just a little bit strange :confused: I bet you all don't even think that what the Manson Family did was even strange?? I'll go one further than that>> I bet most of you all think that the Manson Family crimes were nothing but a Conspiracy Theory? You're right they probably never even happened at all>> yeah forget all the dead bodies they probably made it all up :rolleyes: . No! nothing strange about anything on this planet :rolleyes:
User avatar
shunsui
Member
Posts: 1639
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:22 pm

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#49

Post by shunsui »

I remember watching a crime show on cable tv maybe 20 years ago. Some guy was picking up female hitchhikers, driving them at gun point out to a cabin he had, raping them for a few days; and then giving them a two minute head start before he tracked them down, shot, and buried them. Yeah, he was a real class act.

One girl got away and after a bit of time convincing a couple of police officers she didn't usually parade around naked, they arrested him. In a plea deal, he gave them the locations of around 20 burial sites, all missing girls.

I'd imagine there's all sorts of strange people with shovels out in the National Parks.
User avatar
ChrisinHove
Member
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:12 am
Location: 27.2046° N, 77.4977° E

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#50

Post by ChrisinHove »

MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:17 am
Seems like an avalanche is the most reasonable explanation. Beats yetis or fireballs.
I honestly recommend the Dead Mountain book. The investigation and conclusion are thoroughly considered (I’m trying very hard to avoid spoilers here!) - and no yetis, aliens or cultists.
TomAiello
Member
Posts: 6655
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:34 pm
Location: Twin Falls, ID

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#51

Post by TomAiello »

MichaelScott wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:17 am
Seems like an avalanche is the most reasonable explanation. Beats yetis or fireballs.
I actually think the fireballs might have some basis in fact. The soviets tested munitions in remote areas quite a lot, and they were a lot less thorough than the Americans about getting civilians out of the way first (and the Americans weren't all that thorough in the 50's either).
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#52

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

Regarding the fireballs and ball lightning:

There is definitely a scientifically-evidenced phenomena known as ball lightning, as well as sheet lightning and other forms. Electricity is amazing stuff.
There is still open discussion as to what causes ball lightning; some claim certain materials like silicon or carbon dust can have an electrostatic effect under certain laboratory and atmospheric conditions, others claim it is a "macroscopic quantum phenomena", in other words, when you see ball lightning you are actually witnessing quantum energy manifested at the visible macro scale.

Some have actually reproduced controlled ball lightning, and there are even labs that want to use it for technological applications such as producing usable energy and for national defense; it turns out that in theory at least controlled ball lightning of sufficient power could destroy incoming enemy missiles and possibly even asteroids. It can also be used as a powerful cutting torch to weld and cut materials.

As Tom pointed out, the Soviets tested and invested alot into those areas. There are also talk of "Earth Lights" as a natural phenomena; one paper I read about this and infact a book claimed that when certain dielectric materials like quartz (the earth is full of silicon oxides) rub together under certain conditions, they can produce temporary bursts of energy and these can take the natural form of a sphere. It would be interesting to see this around earthquakes.

And then there is a whole other field of investigation into INFRASOUND. It turns out that certain animals can detect and even emit infrasound and use it for various purposes; in some cases of quakes and tsunamis peoples' pets were able to detect this before it happened and became nervous and some even fled. Dolphins can use sound waves in the form of natural sonar to detect and help them hunt fish for food.
User avatar
SpyderEdgeForever
Member
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: USA

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#53

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

shunsui wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:22 am
I remember watching a crime show on cable tv maybe 20 years ago. Some guy was picking up female hitchhikers, driving them at gun point out to a cabin he had, raping them for a few days; and then giving them a two minute head start before he tracked them down, shot, and buried them. Yeah, he was a real class act.

One girl got away and after a bit of time convincing a couple of police officers she didn't usually parade around naked, they arrested him. In a plea deal, he gave them the locations of around 20 burial sites, all missing girls.

I'd imagine there's all sorts of strange people with shovels out in the National Parks.
Man that is horrible, disgusting, and evil. How can we prevent and protect ourselves from such sickening monsters when hiking and going out and about? What tips do you and others offer on good defense and protection skills to prevent that?
User avatar
MichaelScott
Member
Posts: 3008
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:42 am
Location: Southern Colorado

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#54

Post by MichaelScott »

9 mm works for me.
Overheard at the end of the ice age, “We’ve been having such unnatural weather.”

http://acehotel.blog

Team Innovation
User avatar
shunsui
Member
Posts: 1639
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:22 pm

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#55

Post by shunsui »

Never go out in the middle of nowhere without something on your belt you can jam deep into anything that requires that sort of attention.
User avatar
The Deacon
Member
Posts: 25717
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Upstate SC, USA
Contact:

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#56

Post by The Deacon »

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:32 am
I started this thread on David Paulides and his work on extremely strange and totally unexplained disappearances in National Parks. But no one wants to address that at all. I thought it would make for some interesting discussion. And I'm willing to bet that not one of you has even looked at so much as one of his videos. You couldn't make stuff like this up. People missing and they find their clothes neatly folded in extremely cold and hostile environments and you all don't even think that's just a little bit strange :confused: I bet you all don't even think that what the Manson Family did was even strange?? I'll go one further than that>> I bet most of you all think that the Manson Family crimes were nothing but a Conspiracy Theory? You're right they probably never even happened at all>> yeah forget all the dead bodies they probably made it all up :rolleyes: . No! nothing strange about anything on this planet :rolleyes:

Sorry JD, here's the problem for me, and I suspect for some of the others here. Simply put, David Paulides comes off as less than credible. His books are self-published and can't be found in any public library in my state. His Wikipedia entry starts off as follows:

"David Paulides is a cryptozoologist, investigator and writer known primarily for his work, including two self-published books, dedicated to proving the reality of the cryptid known as Bigfoot, and for his series of self-published books, Missing 411, in which he speculates about the disappearance of people in national parks and elsewhere. Paulides attributes mysterious, unspecified causes to these disappearances, while data analyst Kyle Polich has analyzed Paulides' data and concluded that, statistically, these disappearances are not mysterious in any way."

Mr. Paulides YouTube videos, at least the ones I could find, are on channels devoted to things like alien abductions, bigfoot and chupacabra sighting, and conspiracy theories. In one of the ones I watched, he and the host seemed amazed by the fact "many of the disappearances occur in either the mountains, or close to water". They attached some dark but unspecified significance to that, while most reasonable people would find them to be two very predictable places for people to disappear. Mountains offer all kinds of rugged terrain where victims of both accidents and foul play may never be found. Not all drowning victims are recovered, and a boat is an easy way for a person who want to disappear to vanish. He states that the disappearances happen in "clusters", which sounds ominous until he states that a "cluster" is 3 or more within an 40 mile radius. That's roughly 5000 square miles. Could there be one or more serial killers who use or have used the National Parks as their hunting ground, sure.

As for the rest, yes, I'd consider the neatly folded clothes unexpected, but not that odd. Could be a basically neat person intent on committing suicide. More likely, they could have been suffering the effects of hypothermia and felt hot when they were actually close to freezing. If the body was never found, could be someone who wanted to disappear and brought two sets of clothes. To me, those explanations make more sense than it being the work of extraterrestrials, cryptids, or sinister agents of secret government agencies.

As for the Manson family, to me what they did was not really any more strange than when the followers of Jim Jones, and Marshall Applewhite committed suicide. I'd chalk it up to a combination of drugs and a charismatic leader who, like most successful cult leaders, attracted followers who were less than stable and easily manipulated. No government conspiracy or alien mind control needed.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
SpyderScout
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:35 pm

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#57

Post by SpyderScout »

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:32 am
I never said a YETI pulled anyone's tongue out :rolleyes: I was just making the observation that it was rather strange that one woman did have her tongue pulled out and according to what I heard on all the documentaries I heard on it that is what happened. And if that's true I do find it kind of odd
that one of the victims would have had their tongue removed. That's not normal at most murder scenes.
As linked to/highlighted/mentioned several times:

"no matter how many times one repeats the claim that the only reasonable explanation for one of the Dyatlov bodies missing a tongue is that a Yeti pulled it out, it pales beside the straightforward hypothesis that her tongue was devoured by a scavenging animal or decomposed due to constant contact with the stream of running water where the body was found."

JD Spydo wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:32 am
I bet you all don't even think that what the Manson Family did was even strange?? I'll go one further than that>> I bet most of you all think that the Manson Family crimes were nothing but a Conspiracy Theory? You're right they probably never even happened at all>> yeah forget all the dead bodies they probably made it all up :rolleyes: . No! nothing strange about anything on this planet :rolleyes:
With respect; take a deep breath and calm down. No need for this. We/I have not responded in kind. There is nothing in this thread to get agitaged about. We should be able to have discussion like adults … no matter what one believe or doesnt believe in.


As another forum member posted; the Manson Family were plenty strange/weird. Sadly, there were/are others just as weird.
User avatar
cabfrank
Member
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 9:07 pm
Location: Northern California, USA, Earth

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#58

Post by cabfrank »

Well, I did find the book at the library.
Regarding Kyle Polich's (whoever he is) statistical analysis, there is a famous quote about lies and statistics. He would be no more or less credible than the author to me, barring any pre-conceived notions.
I'm not sure we can say anyone is certainly wrong with regard to their opinion on matters such as this. I don't know why we have to.
Skidoosh
Member
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:48 pm

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#59

Post by Skidoosh »

I'm reading the book Last Season by Eric Blehm, good read. It is easy to get lost, especially in a wilderness setting. You can read about the Winchester Rifle that was found propped next to a tree in Great Basin. I've heard of someone finding a conquistador's helmet in the Uintas. I'm not surprised people go missing I don't find it that surprising, especially in a day and age when people freak out if they are not connected to the internet.
SpyderScout
Member
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:35 pm

Re: Missing 411: Really Strange

#60

Post by SpyderScout »

I remember the pics of the rifle - what an awesome find.
Rotten luck for the person who leaned it against a juniper and forgot about, where he put it.

Pls tell us more about the helmet. Talk about an awesome find.
Post Reply