Watch purchasing advice?

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Bodog
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#21

Post by Bodog »

ChrisinHove wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:49 pm
I was told by a repairer that the costly designer watches all use similar and inexpensive movements. As if I ever needed an excuse NOT to spend many 00’s!
That's not entirely true. A lot of "swiss" watches used ETA movements that require some amount of finishing and customizing. Some companies would do more than others. That has since stopped and ETA movements are used prettt much by only its parent corporation, Swatch, iirc. Rolex uses its own in house movements as do some other very high end swiss watch makers like Patek Philippe. Other high end watches use movements made by seagull out of China. They're very good relatively speaking but the same thing applies. Different watch companies do different things to customize the movements. Seiko uses their own movement for the most part. Ball is another.

When talking about what makes a budget brand worthwhile, they use a good movement and they do enough quality finishing to make it a good watch without going overboard and without skimping on the important stuff. There are several that do generally good work without breaking the bank. That's why you see the name seiko, seagull, and rolex quite often. They make the movements and the watches and have a vested interest in picking out the better movements fot their own brand. Other high end companies that belong to swatch: breitling, etc., still have access to ETA movements. The different movements are made to different specific requirements. The number of jewels. The number of complications, etc. The companies can do a number of things with the movements, they're basically like a house foundation. For a long while companies like Hamilton and Omega used ETA movements and were regarded as very high quality even though they used the same movement manufacturer as some lower quality companies. I don't know where they're getting their movements now unless they folded under the Swatch umbrella.

Anyway, several good movement manufacturers exist and that's really what you're looking for at the base level. Anything after that is really somewhat user preference and a little bit of knowledge.

The lack of really good, experienced horologists/watch makers and repairers is a real concern in the watch/clock world right now. There's only a couple of schools in the world and their graduation rates are low, as are their anuual incomes. Most companies are just hiring cheap foreign labor to do parts swaps until the watch works right. Even most watch repairers in the US are only there to do maintenance. Anything more and they'll tell you to send it to the manufacturer where they'll just replace the thing if anything at all.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#22

Post by ChrisinHove »

Bodog wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:57 pm
ChrisinHove wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:49 pm
I was told by a repairer that the costly designer watches all use similar and inexpensive movements. As if I ever needed an excuse NOT to spend many 00’s!
That's not entirely true. A lot of "swiss" watches used ETA movements that require some amount of finishing and customizing. Some companies would do more than others. That has since stopped and ETA movements are used prettt much by only its parent corporation, Swatch, iirc. Rolex uses its own in house movements as do some other very high end swiss watch makers like Patek Philippe. Other high end watches use movements made by seagull out of China. They're very good relatively speaking but the same thing applies. Different watch companies do different things to customize the movements. Seiko uses their own movement for the most part. Ball is another.

When talking about what makes a budget brand worthwhile, they use a good movement and they do enough quality finishing to make it a good watch without going overboard and without skimping on the important stuff. There are several that do generally good work without breaking the bank. That's why you see the name seiko, seagull, and rolex quite often. They make the movements and the watches and have a vested interest in picking out the better movements fot their own brand. Other high end companies that belong to swatch: breitling, etc., still have access to ETA movements. The different movements are made to different specific requirements. The number of jewels. The number of complications, etc. The companies can do a number of things with the movements, they're basically like a house foundation. For a long while companies like Hamilton and Omega used ETA movements and were regarded as very high quality even though they used the same movement manufacturer as some lower quality companies. I don't know where they're getting their movements now unless they folded under the Swatch umbrella.

Anyway, several good movement manufacturers exist and that's really what you're looking for at the base level. Anything after that is really somewhat user preference and a little bit of knowledge.

The lack of really good, experienced horologists/watch makers and repairers is a real concern in the watch/clock world right now. There's only a couple of schools in the world and their graduation rates are low, as are their anuual incomes. Most companies are just hiring cheap foreign labor to do parts swaps until the watch works right. Even most watch repairers in the US are only there to do maintenance. Anything more and they'll tell you to send it to the manufacturer where they'll just replace the thing if anything at all.

Interesting stuff - thanks! I’m clearly way out of date!

Patek Philipe was his recommendation, at the time, if I didn’t want a Rolex. I’ve hankered after a Cartier Tank watch, just for the looks really, but life’s other financial demands have always got in the way.

Certainly the antique clock market is shrinking here. My elderly father has dabbled over the years and has recently gifted me his single hand, 17th century lantern clock, I think to tempt me into the hobby. I need to find somewhere safe to put it up, though, where the huuuuge pendulum and chain/weight arrangement don’t get in the way!

With accurate time keeping on your phone, iPad, car dash, microwave, fridge etc, time-pieces seem to be following logarithms and paper maps into relative obscurity, which is a shame considering their mechanical cleverness. I visited the Greenwich Meridian museum recently; seeing those Harrison chronometers, their design evolution and stunning build quality was a joy.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#23

Post by Daveho »

I really hope watches don’t go that way- they are really something special to some men in particular
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#24

Post by Evil D »

My phone will never replace my watch. Not everyone walks around with their phone in their hands at all times so when I need to check the time it's easier and quicker to check my wrist. Old habits die hard I guess.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#25

Post by remnar »

Evil D wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:53 am
My phone will never replace my watch. Not everyone walks around with their phone in their hands at all times so when I need to check the time it's easier and quicker to check my wrist. Old habits die hard I guess.
I agree 100%. Today I went to work and forgot both my phone and my watch. :eek: :confused:
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#26

Post by remnar »

After reading some of the suggestions and taking a look at some of the watches I've decided that I would be willing to spend a little more, but not more than $200.

One model that keeps catching my attention is the Casio G-Steel 300 series of watches. Does anyone have experience with the G-Steel models. I still need to get out to the stores and do some hands on comparisons before I make any decisions but this one just appeals to me for some reason.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#27

Post by Bodog »

remnar wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:45 pm
After reading some of the suggestions and taking a look at some of the watches I've decided that I would be willing to spend a little more, but not more than $200.

One model that keeps catching my attention is the Casio G-Steel 300 series of watches. Does anyone have experience with the G-Steel models. I still need to get out to the stores and do some hands on comparisons before I make any decisions but this one just appeals to me for some reason.
Can you tell us what you want in a watch? Just a plain jane watch with a leather band? A date/time function? A mechanical watch that winds itself as you wear it? One that can withstand a lot of abuse? Satellite/gps/radio controlled? What would you like the watch to do? There are a lot of great options, please don't go uninformed. You might have gotten something far better than what you think possible. It's kind of like knives in that regard. You can think you're doing great buying a SOG when a spyderco PM2 is within your budget and a far better knife. Not saying a SOG is bad or can't cut something, but really, a PM2 is better in almost every aspect.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#28

Post by kodai78 »

Try https://www.longislandwatch.com/ , they have very good prices and a good selection. I like Casio watches, the G-shocks and the ProTreks are good. I like the ones which solar charge and sync via radio so they’re always synced to atomic clocks.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#29

Post by remnar »

Bodog wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:05 pm
remnar wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:45 pm
After reading some of the suggestions and taking a look at some of the watches I've decided that I would be willing to spend a little more, but not more than $200.

One model that keeps catching my attention is the Casio G-Steel 300 series of watches. Does anyone have experience with the G-Steel models. I still need to get out to the stores and do some hands on comparisons before I make any decisions but this one just appeals to me for some reason.
Can you tell us what you want in a watch? Just a plain jane watch with a leather band? A date/time function? A mechanical watch that winds itself as you wear it? One that can withstand a lot of abuse? Satellite/gps/radio controlled? What would you like the watch to do? There are a lot of great options, please don't go uninformed. You might have gotten something far better than what you think possible. It's kind of like knives in that regard. You can think you're doing great buying a SOG when a spyderco PM2 is within your budget and a far better knife. Not saying a SOG is bad or can't cut something, but really, a PM2 is better in almost every aspect.
I'll do the best that I can to tell you what I want but the problem is that I'm not exactly sure what that is. Part of the problem is my lack of knowlegde about watches. This thread has been helpful in some ways but it hasn't really helped my nail down exactly what I want.

Can you tell us what you want in a watch?

In general, I wear my watch all day every day. It must be durable and be able to withstand all kinds of conditions. I work indoors and outdoors and do a lot of hiking. I garden, use manual and power tools while wearing my watch. Sweat, water, dirt, impacts and vibration should not cause problems. I prefer analog over digital. As far as the movement type goes, I prefer quartz but I don't know much about movements and I am open to other options as long as the options are accurate and low maintenance. The watch band type is not that important but I usually find metal bands to be too heavy although I would consider one. The only functions that I require are that it tells time and the date. Other than that, a stop watch and alarm can be handy but I don't need any other fancy electronic stuff. Any other functions that would be useful while hiking would be a bonus but not necessary. I like the styling of a lot of the Citizens, Seikos, Casios and others. Here's a link to the Casio g-steel that I mentioned above.

https://www.jomashop.com/casio-watch-gs ... 0AQAvD_BwE
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#30

Post by Bodog »

Check out the Seiko 5 sports series

Discussion:

https://forums.watchuseek.com/f21/what- ... pics/47211
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#31

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

Regarding watches, what do you suggest if these are the desired features of a particular watch?

1 Self Winding or powered so that you do not ever need to get batteries.
2 Stainless components that do not rust easilly.
3 Durable and resilient so that if dropped it will not be easilly damaged.
4 Lightweight enough to be comfortable and worn without being noticed much.
5 Maximum Price 50 to 100 dollars, nothing beyond that, and preferably 50 or under.
6 Gives you basic time measurements and has alarm feature, date, that sort of thing. Nothing too fancy.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#32

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

I have another watch question. Years ago someone told me that the Japanese who pioneered the quartz electronic watches went to Switzerland and sat down with the heads of the big famous Swiss watch companies, and showed them their quartz watches and gave them the overview, and asked the Swiss to invest in it. The Swiss, according to this person, all laughed and made fun of this and said "That is a toy! haha! That is not a watch!" and showed the Japanese watch people their intricate machined components. The Japanese left and according to the story the rest is history: The Swiss missed out on millions and millions of dollars they could have had from sales of quartz electronic watches.

Does that sound like a true story or was it likely an urban legend that this person told me?

Both the Swiss and the Japanese were and are very good at precision manufacturing of not only steel and mechanical items but a wide range of consumer products and tools.

I did find this on Wikipedia. They call it the "Quartz Crisis".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_crisis
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#33

Post by Bodog »

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:11 pm
Regarding watches, what do you suggest if these are the desired features of a particular watch?

1 Self Winding or powered so that you do not ever need to get batteries.
2 Stainless components that do not rust easilly.
3 Durable and resilient so that if dropped it will not be easilly damaged.
4 Lightweight enough to be comfortable and worn without being noticed much.
5 Maximum Price 50 to 100 dollars, nothing beyond that, and preferably 50 or under.
6 Gives you basic time measurements and has alarm feature, date, that sort of thing. Nothing too fancy.
The Seiko 5 fits that category to a T. It's why i brought it up. Every several years you should probably have a watch guy lube it but it shouldn't cost much at all. Same goes for any mechanical watch. The ecodrives are pretty good but i don't know if you could get one for under 50.

Honestly for that price and those requirements I'd just buy a nice looking timex. With a decent band they're worth their price. I've have batteries last 10 years in a couple of them and no maintenance was ever required. I still have one i bought in 2007, gave it to my son, never did anything but use it. He fidgeted with the band so much it broke. Still sitting on his nightstand. Still works. I have another i cut the bands off of and use it as a pocket watch sometimes. I bought that one in, geez, maybe 2003 or something. A long time ago. Don't ask how the batteries aren't dead yet. I don't have a clue.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#34

Post by Bodog »

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:16 pm
I have another watch question. Years ago someone told me that the Japanese who pioneered the quartz electronic watches went to Switzerland and sat down with the heads of the big famous Swiss watch companies, and showed them their quartz watches and gave them the overview, and asked the Swiss to invest in it. The Swiss, according to this person, all laughed and made fun of this and said "That is a toy! haha! That is not a watch!" and showed the Japanese watch people their intricate machined components. The Japanese left and according to the story the rest is history: The Swiss missed out on millions and millions of dollars they could have had from sales of quartz electronic watches.

Does that sound like a true story or was it likely an urban legend that this person told me?

Both the Swiss and the Japanese were and are very good at precision manufacturing of not only steel and mechanical items but a wide range of consumer products and tools.

I did find this on Wikipedia. They call it the "Quartz Crisis".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_crisis
Same thing I've heard. Look up grand seiko. They are beating the swiss head to head in most things if you're willing to pay swiss prices. I think they're beating all but the highest priced swiss watches for accuracy in chrono competitons. And coincidentally, iirc, they're the first to come out with quartz watches. I don't think they took too kindly to how the swiss treated them, lol.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#35

Post by Sharp Guy »

Thanks for starting this thread remnar! I've been watching (no pun) with interest!

I currently have 3 watches.

-A Swatch that I bought 10 years ago. I like the watch but the battery doesn't seem to last very long. So it's spent much of it's life in a drawer. I just replaced the battery so I'll give it another go.

- A Fossil Twist that my ex-wife gave me 10 years ago. Same battery issue with this one except it only lasts maybe 5 months and I have to send it in to get the battery replaced. It costs about $30 each time so that gets old fast. I love the styling of the watch but it also sits in a drawer a lot. It may be time to try changing the battery myself.

- A Citizen Eco-drive that I got for my birthday a couple years ago. Love it! No more batteries dying. I wear it often but the it's almost too dressy to wear to work. So this thread has given me some great ideas.

I've wanted to try a Seiko so I'm considering this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Seiko-SNK807-Aut ... ds=Seiko+5

or this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Seiko-Sport-Auto ... eature_div

They're very similar but I like the appearance (and price) of the first one but I like the bigger size of the second one. Any input?

Then...because I like having variety I think I'm gonna order another Citizen.

https://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Eco-Driv ... +drive+men
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#36

Post by remnar »

Sharp Guy wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:19 am
Thanks for starting this thread remnar! I've been watching (no pun) with interest!

.
.
.

I've wanted to try a Seiko so I'm considering this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Seiko-SNK807-Aut ... ds=Seiko+5

or this one...

https://www.amazon.com/Seiko-Sport-Auto ... eature_div

They're very similar but I like the appearance (and price) of the first one but I like the bigger size of the second one. Any input?

Then...because I like having variety I think I'm gonna order another Citizen.

https://www.amazon.com/Citizen-Eco-Driv ... +drive+men
Sharp Guy, I like all of those watches that you posted. The only thing that is keeping me from ordering something at this point is the fact that I can't actually see and handle the watches. I live about an hour away from civilization. I'm planning a road trip on Friday so I can go to a few stores and check out their watch selections. Hopefully I'll be able to come to a decision after the trip. :) :spyder:
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#37

Post by Sharp Guy »

remnar wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:09 pm
Sharp Guy, I like all of those watches that you posted. The only thing that is keeping me from ordering something at this point is the fact that I can't actually see and handle the watches. I live about an hour away from civilization. I'm planning a road trip on Friday so I can go to a few stores and check out their watch selections. Hopefully I'll be able to come to a decision after the trip. :) :spyder:
Good luck on your roadtrip! Hopefully you'll find something you like.

I've always worn leather bands. I like the casual look of the nylon NATO style bands. I also like the idea that I can get a different style/color fairly cheap.

I ordered the Seiko SNK I posted. I used the latest eBay discount code from the crazy deals thread. I figure for $55 I won't be hurt too bad if I don't like or it gets banged up at work.
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#38

Post by miyamotomusashi »

SpyderNut wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:02 pm
The G-Shocks have a cult following and are well made. I've been tempted to buy one over the years, but I really prefer analog over digital. (It's all a matter of personal taste, though). You can get a really nice G-Shock for around $40 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/G-shock-DW9052-1 ... B000GAYQLI

Whether you go with an automatic, solar, or quartz movement is a personal decision. Like Joe mentioned, automatics do not ever require a battery replacement and are generally pretty low on maintenance needs. The downside is that they usually run +/- a few seconds off each day based on how you wear your watch. The solar and quartz will usually provide more accurate time keeping compared to most automatics (but again, we're probably only talking about a 3 to 5 second variance compared to an automatic). Having said that, automatics are just plain fun, IMO. I have a Rado DiaStar auto that is a lot of fun. I just love how the second hand "sweeps." It only has a 28 hour power reserve, so I have to wear it/wind it often or it will die. ;)
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Hope this helps,

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My romance with automatic watches spans more than a decade, but it's over now that I got a Casio ProTrek PRW-7000FC with composite/titanium bracelet. It's my first watch with compass, altimeter, barometer, thermometer, multi-band-6-radio-auto-time-keeping, and solar. What sold me on it is its UV-blacklight back-light, and sapphire crystal, and very high contrast markers. It's so lightweight, has sun-up/sun-down, moon-phases, and more - everything you can think of, it's insane.

I still have my heavy, automatic Seiko dive watches, but I've been spoiled by how lightweight and accurate the Casio is. Losing/gaining seconds everyday got old after a while, when everyone else is accurate as can be with their cellular devices these days. I've tried smart watches, and didn't jive with the daily charging requirements and how much I had to touch its tiny screen, but mostly how it would go sleep and its screen would go dark.

I've destroyed titanium automatic watches, but this Pro-Trek is on par with G-Shock, and its crystal is scratch-proof, and it's so wonderfully durable, yet refined and subtle, while being huge, it's doesn't appear to be built like a tank with huge GSHOCK billboarding or anything, but it's still built like a tank.

This isn't my picture, but it shows the UV blacklight back-light, which was my main attractant to it.
PRW7000-LIT.jpg
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#39

Post by miyamotomusashi »

I realize this community frown upon clones, but after watching my grail Seiko (SBDX001 MM300) consistently increase in price and get further from my budget, I satisfied that itch with a chinese clone. I know, I know, but oh my goodness is it good. For the same price as some of these "starter" automatic Seikos on Amazon, I got this "grail" and it's gorgeous. It's quite a feat of prestidigitation, to manufacture its monocoque case (there is no screw-on back) and domed sapphire crystal. It's got all the trimmings of ceramic bezel and it's a sight to behold in person. It's internals happen to be Citizen Miyota, but at least it beats at 8 ticks per second. There are a few versions, but in my opinion, this one is miles above the "Sharky" version.
20171205_124725.jpg
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Re: Watch purchasing advice?

#40

Post by Daveho »

miyamotomusashi wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:17 pm
I realize this community frown upon clones, but after watching my grail Seiko (SBDX001 MM300) consistently increase in price and get further from my budget, I satisfied that itch with a chinese clone. I know, I know, but oh my goodness is it good. For the same price as some of these "starter" automatic Seikos on Amazon, I got this "grail" and it's gorgeous. It's quite a feat of prestidigitation, to manufacture its monocoque case (there is no screw-on back) and domed sapphire crystal. It's got all the trimmings of ceramic bezel and it's a sight to behold in person. It's internals happen to be Citizen Miyota, but at least it beats at 8 ticks per second. There are a few versions, but in my opinion, this one is miles above the "Sharky" version.

20171205_124725.jpg
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