Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

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JD Spydo
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Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:15 pm

Well we sure do a lot of threads and posts on the subject of sharpening so I guess I'm going to another level of discussion hopefully. With our good Brother SURF recently sharing with us that he selected the KME system and I've been watching that thread with a lot of interest. My good pal EVIL D some time ago recommended the EDGE PRO because of it being able to accomodate a lot of different stones. But I am doing some serious window shopping lately for an advanced sharpening system and I've also had two pals over at Bladeforums swear to me that the "Wicked Edge" is the "creme-de-le-creme" of all the sharpening systems out there on the market at this time>> but I've also heard that WE has some disadvantages too.

I'm really getting frustrated trying to finalize my decision on which high-end system to get. And I'm really baffled as to why the Great Spyder Factory hasn't released the GAUNTLET as of yet>> because I really want to test drive one of those before I do go to another level. I'm wondering if The GAUNTLET will do what I want to accomplish for the present time until I get to see what all is currently on the horizon.

I hate to get one of these advanced systems and then in a month or so have some new tool hit the market. I can't help but believe that with the WE and Edge Pro units getting all the latest fanfare they are getting and I just know in my gut that some competitor out there is coming up with a unit even more advanced. I just can't help but believe that someone like DMT, Norton or maybe even SHAPTON is maybe about to bring out something even more versatile.

I'm being patient but I'm also getting tired of waiting as well. I'm probably going to get a Spyderco GAUNTLET no matter what my final decision is. But I don't want to jump the gun because I truly believe that there is something new on the horizon that might be worth waiting for. What would you all do if you had my frustration??

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Sharp Guy
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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Sharp Guy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:35 pm

I'm perfectly happy with the Sharpmaker for light work but wanted something that would work better for reprofiling. After a little research I was trying to decide between the Edge Pro, Wicked Edge, & KME. Then came across some discussions on here about the Hapstone. After reading about it and comparing with the others I went ahead and ordered a Hapstone V7 through Amazon. I've been using it since November and I'm extremely happy with it. It's very well made and has the ability to use a wide variety of stones. If you're considering a guided system I highly recommend you at least check it out.
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anagarika
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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby anagarika » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:45 pm

Hi JD,

Interesting questions! I read sometime back there’s this russian company that comes up with similar guided system, but the name escapes me right now. It must have been posted somewhere on the M T & E sub forum over BF.

Meanwhile you can have fun reading (not sure if I posted already, sorry for duplication): https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/geo ... s.1131476/
I always suspected that a pivot with rod cannot have same exact angle like a moving in parallel guide. Not sure if anyone is doing that already.
Chris :spyder:

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Bloke » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:49 pm

Sharp Guy wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:35 pm
I'm perfectly happy with the Sharpmaker for light work but wanted something that would work better for reprofiling. After a little research I was trying to decide between the Edge Pro, Wicked Edge, & KME. Then came across some discussions on here about the Hapstone. After reading about it and comparing with the others I went ahead and ordered a Hapstone V7 through Amazon. I've been using it since November and I'm extremely happy with it. It's very well made and has the ability to use a wide variety of stones. If you're considering a guided system I highly recommend you at least check it out.
Glad you chimed in Pat! :cool:

I’ve had the Hapstone Pro for close to two years now and I too am extremely happy with mine even though it lacks some of the features of the latest V7. Either way it’s certainly worth a look.

Even though it could be said it’s a rip off of the Edge Pro it is significantly more versatile if only in the fact it will hold near any stone, within reason of coarse. It will also hold the SharpMaker triangular stones to sharpen SE edges.

I’ve attached a stock photo of the Edge Pro and the original Hapstone Pro for comparison should anyone be interested. :)

Image
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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby ThePeacent » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:07 am

anagarika wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:45 pm
Hi JD,

Interesting questions! I read sometime back there’s this russian company that comes up with similar guided system, but the name escapes me right now. It must have been posted somewhere on the M T & E sub forum over BF.

Meanwhile you can have fun reading (not sure if I posted already, sorry for duplication): https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/geo ... s.1131476/
I always suspected that a pivot with rod cannot have same exact angle like a moving in parallel guide. Not sure if anyone is doing that already.
do you mean this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWIVqz4AQps

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:52 am

Sharp Guy wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:35 pm
I'm perfectly happy with the Sharpmaker for light work but wanted something that would work better for reprofiling. After a little research I was trying to decide between the Edge Pro, Wicked Edge, & KME. Then came across some discussions on here about the Hapstone. After reading about it and comparing with the others I went ahead and ordered a Hapstone V7 through Amazon. I've been using it since November and I'm extremely happy with it. It's very well made and has the ability to use a wide variety of stones. If you're considering a guided system I highly recommend you at least check it out.
Thanks for the timely input "SharpGuy" . Because for the most part I really rely on my 204 Sharpmaker units as well for a large percentage of my knife sharpening jobs. And even when I do decide on which high end sharpening system to get I will most likely still do at least 80% of all my sharpening and touch ups on my 204 Sharpmaker. IT's just so handy and reliable that I doubt if I ever do away with my 204 Sharpmaker especially when Spyderco constantly adds more stones and other options for the unit.

Now if Brother BLOKE says this Hapstone is the way to go then I'm going to take a very serious look at it because Bloke and I tend to agree on a lot things we discuss here on the Forum and I take his word that this Hapstone must be a great system. But I must be convinced that it will be the ticket for the edged tools I constantly work with.

Now on the other hand this Russian made system that you guys have brought up has me really intrigued from the standpoint that it looks like it would be a really great unit for sharpening machetes, Gurkha Kukri models and Bowies and big blades in general. Because I have a lot of those types of blades and I've been looking for something that would do them justice.

Again I've been closely monitoring Surfingringo's KME thread and I must say there are some intriguing aspects to it as well. But I do appreciate the input we've had so far.

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Sharp Guy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:48 am

JD Spydo wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:52 am
Thanks for the timely input "SharpGuy" . Because for the most part I really rely on my 204 Sharpmaker units as well for a large percentage of my knife sharpening jobs. And even when I do decide on which high end sharpening system to get I will most likely still do at least 80% of all my sharpening and touch ups on my 204 Sharpmaker. IT's just so handy and reliable that I doubt if I ever do away with my 204 Sharpmaker especially when Spyderco constantly adds more stones and other options for the unit.
Make no mistake....this unit did not replace the SM for me. It could replace it if I needed it to but the SM is too convenient and easy to use for me to bother with the bigger system for regular maintenance (micro-bevels, touch ups, etc).
JD Spydo wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:52 am
Now on the other hand this Russian made system that you guys have brought up has me really intrigued from the standpoint that it looks like it would be a really great unit for sharpening machetes, Gurkha Kukri models and Bowies and big blades in general. Because I have a lot of those types of blades and I've been looking for something that would do them justice.
One of the only limitations that I've found with the Hapstone is it's difficult to sharpen long blades because the arm can only swing so far to the right before the upright post interferes. You're also limited by the length of the stones you have to work with (probably true with any guided system). A friend gave me a 10" kitchen knife to sharpen and I found I had to continuously reposition the knife on the platform so I could reach the tip. I thought it would screw up my angles but I made witness marks on the spine with a sharpie so I repositioned it the same way each time I moved it. Kind of a pain but it ended up turning out great. Now I think having the platform to rest the blade on is actually a nice feature vs a clamped system where the blade is locked in place.
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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby anagarika » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:20 am

ThePeacent wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:07 am

do you mean this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWIVqz4AQps
Probably. I’m not very much into guided sharpening system, but seems to be that one.
Chris :spyder:

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Stuart Ackerman » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:00 pm

I am experimenting with H13 steel full hardened, and then nitrided to give a hard surface that will sharpen most knives.
All 6 surfaces will be 36 grit, but will sharpen like 150 to 200 grit.

A chisel tip for batoning, around 4 to 6 inches long, and tough as your great grandma. :)

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Evil D » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:02 pm

I think the Hapstone is the best you can get right now. I wouldn't buy a sharpener that's based around a blade clamp no matter what kind of "solutions" they provide to overcome clamping different blade shapes.
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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Knife Knut » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:21 am

I personally would like to see a system that works with regular, upright flat stones from any company, instead of upside down proprietary stones and hones.

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby RLDubbya » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:54 am

I've been using the latest version of the Wicked Edge since it came out; I'm quite happy with the results I can obtain in an extremely short amount of time now. There was a learning curve, and during that period, I was slogging. However, once everything clicked, I never looked back.

I have heard good things about the Hapstone and the Edge Pro. When I was considering systems, I did consider them briefly. However, things like the following left me cold:

https://youtu.be/liJKYgO_P3I

In an email conversation with the sales person from Hapstone, he expressed complete agreement with this, and furthermore stated that there was one research study, conducted by Russian scientists, and written in Russian, which demonstrates this - but this research is so complex that anybody who isn't Russian can't understand it.

This was one of the best arguments in favor of Wicked Edge that I came across in my searching.

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Evil D » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:40 am

RLDubbya wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:54 am

I have heard good things about the Hapstone and the Edge Pro. When I was considering systems, I did consider them briefly. However, things like the following left me cold:

I'm pretty sure I've seen that video but I don't have time to watch it now....what part are you referring to that put you off? I've sharpened 20 inch blades on mine, there is practically nothing the Edge Pro can't sharpen within reason. You could literally sharpen William Wallace's sword on one if you had the patience to.
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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby RLDubbya » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:19 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:40 am

what part are you referring to that put you off?
The part where it is baldly asserted that you should not, under any circumstances, sharpen any knife containing steel with a diamond stone.

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Evil D » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:13 pm

RLDubbya wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:19 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:40 am

what part are you referring to that put you off?
The part where it is baldly asserted that you should not, under any circumstances, sharpen any knife containing steel with a diamond stone.


Ah. Well, I guess there's the whole carbides getting tore out thing but that can be avoided by making edge leading passes. I wouldn't let that steer you away from the EP. I've also spoke with Dale a little about changes and he wasn't very open to ideas and pretty much told they were unnecessary. I like to give credit where it's due and I generally hate when someone's ideas are copied but the Hapstone fixes a lot of the EP's shortcomings. That said the EP is also significantly cheaper especially if you buy the cheapest one and order a set of Congress Moldmaster stones (~$35 or so for the whole set). Then you have a very capable sharpening setup that can cut all but the most extreme wear resistant and hard steels.
How you carry yourself is just as important as what you carry.
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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby kbuzbee » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:22 pm

RLDubbya wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:19 pm

The part where it is baldly asserted that you should not, under any circumstances, sharpen any knife containing steel with a diamond stone.
Im sorry, I can’t buy that. Now, I’m not a Russian scientist, just a guy who uses (and sharpens) his knives. I have, use and like my WEPS. I have a lot of different stones for it. Everything from diamond to composite to Japanese water stones. They all work great but I use Atomas 99% of the time these days and get great results every time. I’m happy to listen to anyone’s “why’s” or “why nots” but once I’ve used something I form my own opinions based on my own experiences and results. For me WEPS is the best system out there today and Atomas are my go to stones for it. Period.

Ken

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby RLDubbya » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:37 pm

Evil D wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:13 pm
RLDubbya wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:19 pm
Evil D wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:40 am

what part are you referring to that put you off?
The part where it is baldly asserted that you should not, under any circumstances, sharpen any knife containing steel with a diamond stone.


Ah. Well, I guess there's the whole carbides getting tore out thing but that can be avoided by making edge leading passes. I wouldn't let that steer you away from the EP. I've also spoke with Dale a little about changes and he wasn't very open to ideas and pretty much told they were unnecessary. I like to give credit where it's due and I generally hate when someone's ideas are copied but the Hapstone fixes a lot of the EP's shortcomings. That said the EP is also significantly cheaper especially if you buy the cheapest one and order a set of Congress Moldmaster stones (~$35 or so for the whole set). Then you have a very capable sharpening setup that can cut all but the most extreme wear resistant and hard steels.

As always, sound advice from your corner. I would have given the EP or HapStone more consideration, but for a couple things: at the time, I only knew how to freehand sharpen, use a grinder, and use the SharpMaker. I was pretty limited, in other words; a friend of mine, who is a bladesmith, uses WE, and offered to help me get started. That was huge, and was most likely the deciding factor in favor of WE.

Now that I'm entrenched in WE, it would take a lot to push me to change. I get along well with Clay Allison (WE Owner), I understand how the system works, and I can produce great results in an acceptable amount of time. Yes, there are shortcomings; however, the biggest shortcoming can be fixed permanently in about 10 minutes. Every system has shortcomings: EdgePro is no different. My understanding is that the EP system creates quite a lot of slurry that floats over the blade face, and that slurry can cause extensive scratching to the blade - this is something that concerns me greatly, as I typically am not that great at watching for such things.

Near the bottom of my "we really don't want to do this" list is returning a customer's formerly pristine knife covered in fresh scratches.

As far as what I would suggest to another user just getting into sharpening: that all depends on his/her goals. Are they looking to make some cash? Is this just for them to enjoy as part of the hobby?

I might just suggest that for most casual hobbyists, the WorkSharp Ken Onion model with optional blade attachment is the way to go. I know with that system I was able to produce razor sharp, mirror polished edges within 5 practice knives. That is hard to beat, IMO.

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby kbuzbee » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:25 pm

RLDubbya wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:37 pm
My understanding is that the EP system creates quite a lot of slurry that floats over the blade face, and that slurry can cause extensive scratching to the blade - this is something that concerns me greatly, as I typically am not that great at watching for such things.
I wouldn’t necessarily worry too much about slurry. It really depends on which stones you use. Atomas won’t create a slurry on either system, water stones typically will... on either system (though the more vertical nature of WEPS really limits it there) I don’t know much about EP. Clearly you’ve read more, but I’d still be surprised if it was an issue to be concerned with.

Ken

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Re: Advanced Sharpening Systems On The Horizon?

Postby Evil D » Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:55 pm

Slurry definitely can scratch a blade, but when I'm using the EP I keep the blade taped up on both sides anyway to prevent scratches from laying and moving around on the EP table. Even if I cover the table with tape I still get scratches so I go the extra mile and tape the blade. Besides that, it's a good idea to wash off your stones once you get to that point anyway because they cut better. Once I get a significant amount of slurry I usually lap my stones since they're likely dished. But like Ken said that's really only an issue with very porous stones that wear away quickly.
How you carry yourself is just as important as what you carry.
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