One for SEF: Previous Civilization ++MYA

[Doc Dan]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/civilization ... 59305.html

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you Doc, this is very interesting!

There is a theory among some sectors that claim there were beings on Earth before Adam and Eve, and they had a massively advanced civilization, some call this the "Gap Idea", and that this civilization existed between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The idea is that God created the original universe in a perfect state with no sin and no problems, and there was a massive celestial universal kingdom that included our Solar System. Lucifer who later became Satan was placed in charge over it.

Some believe that the planet Mars was a lush tropical paradise at that time, and there was another planet that some call "Phyton" further out in the Solar System. Lucifer was ofcourse the covering Cherub as outlined in Ezekiel 28 and called the "King of Tyrus" as he was behind the corrupt human prince of Tyrus. He wore a garment or had embedded into his being all manner of precious stones like diamonds and emeralds and he was in charge of the Heavenly music and worship.

The idea is that he had one of his main seats of authority on the planet Mars or Phyton and he then wanted to usurp God and be worshipped in place of God, and he convinced a section of the angelic beings to follow him in rebellion.

At the time Earth was a paradise with Pre Adam beings on it.

When Lucifer rebelled and became Satan, God destroyed the Earth and the universe with a flood of epic proportions; it made the later global Genesis Flood in the days of Noah seem like a little trickle of water in comparison. According to this theory, God destroyed the planet Phyton and that became the ASTEROID BELT; its fragments. The atmosphere of Mars was torn off and Mars became the dead world we know it as today.

There are pyramids and other structures on Mars that were made by intelligent beings. I know some think its just random but I have seen geometric images of these things that are beyond natural wind and other features.

God had to then re-make the world as it shows in Genesis 1:2 and He created the present created universe in six literal 24 hour days.
Between the Gap of the original creation and the present creation could have been thousands to millions or more of years. Some say that explains the universe being dated to 15 billion years old and such like that.

Please keep more cool information like this coming, Doc!

[tvenuto]

Definitely a cool article. I'm personally very fascinated by the study of incredibly long timescales and what that can teach us about the world/universe. Many of our current assumptions about the world are largely based on our lifespan and the length of recorded history. We're starting to expand that with these sorts of questions: is it possible that there was another relatively advanced civilization that's just too far in the past to see with current techniques? What sort of techniques might allow us to detect their existence? And then the real kicker: what would applying these techniques forward on our own civilization tell us about the effect we have on the planet?

In this same vein there is a project to make a 10,000 year clock. What's important about this project is the questions it forces you to ask, about the clock and the environment it'll be in, of course, but also about how that environment is really quite fluid in the long run. If we only lived for 2 hours, we'd never even think about the transition from day to night, and much less about the transition from summer to winter. We'd never see any need for artificial lighting or wool coats, and would probably never even conceive of these things existing. "Necessity is the mother of invention" and when we think about these longer timescales, and what might be needed to last, it may drive us to conceive of new technologies and systems.

This is probably why I'm overly biased towards corrosion resistance in my knives, I want them to survive the rigors of the environment for as long as possible.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

tv wow I am so glad you are aware of the Clock of the Long Now. I have been into that and following the developments for years. Stewart Brand is one of the big supporters and advocates for molecular nanotechnology, by the way. He envisions a day when people will be able to assemble fire proof diamond-silicate car engines at home and use molecular robots to cure diseases.

Thank you for the link.

I too like the corrosion-resistant knives.

Here is an idea: Imagine if they made the clock from a combination of VG10, Lc200n, and H1 stainless steel.

[MichaelScott]

Arguments based on no evidence are not credible. Because one thinks that something ought to exist doesn’t mean it does exist.

[tvenuto]

Arguments based on no evidence are not credible. Because one thinks that something ought to exist doesn’t mean it does exist.

Yes, I find Occam's razor to be a very useful tenet to keep in mind when discussing/thinking about these topics. For example, we can decide that an advanced civilization did exist on earth, and that the fact that we don't see any evidence for it is that space leprechauns came down and removed it piece by piece. This is of course consistent with the current evidence, or lack thereof. However, Occam's razor guides us to a simpler explanation: we don't see any evidence for an ancient advanced civilization because there was none.

However, as I mentioned, I do think it's necessary to keep advancing our techniques in this direction. For the vast majority of recorded history, we had no (obvious) evidence that quantum mechanics was a thing. We now see how quantum mechanics explains things better and more accurately than our previous explanations. And as I discussed earlier, even if there really was no advanced civilization to find, improving out techniques in a search could be useful in predicting our own impact.

[Doc Dan]

The actual point of the article was not at all that ancient civilizations might have existed. The author states he does not believe such a thing. Thinking it through as though such a civilization existed helps scientists to think of what evidence we will leave behind when our civilization is extinct millions of years from now. What sort of imprint will we leave? Will be cause a global extinction even, no oxygen in the water, nano plastic layers in the strata, climate change? How will our civilization be measured so far in the future, and then what are we doing to our planet now?

[The Meat man]

The actual point of the article was not at all that ancient civilizations might have existed. The author states he does not believe such a thing. Thinking it through as though such a civilization existed helps scientists to think of what evidence we will leave behind when our civilization is extinct millions of years from now. What sort of imprint will we leave? Will be cause a global extinction even, no oxygen in the water, nano plastic layers in the strata, climate change? How will our civilization be measured so far in the future, and then what are we doing to our planet now?

Going along with the hypothetical nature of this discussion, why should we care at all what happens to the Earth millions of years after we are extinct?

[O,just,O]

between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

More of this stuff. Why so much of this stuff & lies here lately?
This quote from SEF is the very place where most so called christians go wrong in their belief.
Right between 1:1 & 1:2.
0.

[shunsui]

Maybe the old civilization: (take your pick or picks)

Just cleaned up after itself after awhile.

Is under the ice cap at the south pole.

Got wiped from the face of the earth by geological process.

Flew their cities to other stars.

Ascended to the next level of existence.

Travelled to a parallel universe.

Invaded Heaven and killed off God. (Pick your own god here.)

[Doc Dan]

I see people are not getting the point of the article. Well, it is a fun discussion, anyway.

[shunsui]

The article was kind of a bait and switch thing:

"It’s not often that you write a paper proposing a hypothesis that you don’t support. Gavin and I don’t believe the Earth once hosted a 50-million-year-old Paleocene civilization. But by asking if we could “see” truly ancient industrial civilizations, we were forced to ask about the generic kinds of impacts any civilization might have on a planet. That’s exactly what the astrobiological perspective on climate change is all about."

It's true, I don't care about the astrobiological perspective on climate change.

Ancient civilizations... yeah, more interesting.

[Doc Dan]

That is true. Talking about an ancient civilization is more interesting, at present. What is interesting in that light is there is a dinosaur species (I have forgotten the name, Troodon, I think) that had developed a very large sized brain. Scientists have theorized that if they had kept developing as a species they would have become an advanced intelligence like humans. Who knows, that species could have developed an advanced civilization. But, would it look anything remotely like the advanced human civilization we have today? Would we even be able to grasp it as such without a lot of study?

[ChrisinHove]

That is true. Talking about an ancient civilization is more interesting, at present. What is interesting in that light is there is a dinosaur species (I have forgotten the name, Troodon, I think) that had developed a very large sized brain. Scientists have theorized that if they had kept developing as a species they would have become an advanced intelligence like humans. Who knows, that species could have developed an advanced civilization. But, would it look anything remotely like the advanced human civilization we have today? Would we even be able to grasp it as such without a lot of study?

Not without opposable thumbs, surely...

[tvenuto]

That is true. Talking about an ancient civilization is more interesting, at present. What is interesting in that light is there is a dinosaur species (I have forgotten the name, Troodon, I think) that had developed a very large sized brain. Scientists have theorized that if they had kept developing as a species they would have become an advanced intelligence like humans. Who knows, that species could have developed an advanced civilization. But, would it look anything remotely like the advanced human civilization we have today? Would we even be able to grasp it as such without a lot of study?

I think I saw a documentary on an advanced dinosaur civilization! Ah yes, here it is...



Turns out it would look poorly done and strangely dark.

[The Mastiff]

I've read that not much of the things made by man will last more than a few thousand years. Unless it's made of something like refined gold and is lucky enough to not get crushed, burned to melt point, etc. There have been some strange anomaly's like the pick discovered inside a seam of coal ( there are pictures of it). If there was a civilization here 50,000 years ago we would never have any knowledge of it.

[Doc Dan]

I've read that not much of the things made by man will last more than a few thousand years. Unless it's made of something like refined gold and is lucky enough to not get crushed, burned to melt point, etc. There have been some strange anomaly's like the pick discovered inside a seam of coal ( there are pictures of it). If there was a civilization here 50,000 years ago we would never have any knowledge of it.

There have been picks, hammers, and nails, and even cinderblock type walls found in coal mines. There are a lot of weird things like that around the globe, even cities still very radioactive with all the signs of nuclear blasts. Who really knows. The Bible says there were cities and advanced civilizations that had iron, music, buildings, and etc. before Noah's flood.

[MichaelScott]

We have solid evidence that our pre-human ancestors were making cutting tools about 2 million years ago. Haven’t found any evidence of prior civilizations though. I’m not trying to discourage interest and speculation. Personally, I wait for evidence to bring it into the realm of possibility.