Humans in hand to hand combat against animals?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

While this is old news I just found this:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8118412

He had US Marine training and was camping and fought off a mountain lion with a chainsaw.

My questions:

If a human person had to fight off large predatory animals with decent folder or fixed blade knives, like a Spyderco Endura, or Puma fixed blade Skinner knife, or other types, and or things like crowbars and the rest, what are some of the likely outcomes (I'm speaking of land predatory/carnivores here, not sharks or orca whales) and what are factors the outcomes depend on? Physical fitness and prior training are two that jump out at me, as well as background environment (is it snowy and icy out or summery or what?) as well as what one can do with that knife.

IF one of us on the forum were to be in such a situation and it was a self-defense survival issue, what is the best thing to do if you have a knife on you and you are engaged by a large predatory feline or canine, or, other such creature?

Could an average adult person, for example, fend off an attack by a rabid raccoon or rabid dog with a knife, and avoid getting bit or scratched?

I welcome your insights my friends.

[awa54]

every critter has it's own quirks... in many cases the biggest factor would probably be if you knew the attack was coming or not. I would assume that an aware, moderately fit human with a knife *who kept their cool* could "win" against a single opponent in the same weight category or lower, but it would probably be ugly and would likely involve an ER visit afterward, bigger critters, several critters at once, or ones that got the jump on you, I'd put money on the critter... having been attacked by very unfriendly dogs before, I can say that a stick or bat would be better than a short blade, since reach is a powerful defense, same goes for kicking; less chance to expose your vital areas and a better chance to deliver a painful strike, without the need for much accuracy. Also remember that human night vision is poor, so darkness gives critters an advantage.

The best solution is to avoid that situation by warning animals of your presence, noise/intimidation, or retreating/climbing away from conflict! Or if you're going to be in an area with a high risk of dangerous encounters, bring stronger backup and don't travel alone.



Rabid is even worse... If you can, call animal control to deal with a suspected rabid animal!

A knife is a terrible weapon to fight a rabid animal with, since the virus is blood borne as well as shed through saliva, anything you can do to keep distance from a suspected rabid animal is the right tactic. Rabid animals are irrational and aggressive, if one comes toward you, run! Toward the end of the disease, rabid animals' vision and coordination are poor and they aren't reacting normally anymore. Shooting the animal from beyond the range that fluids might spatter is the right move, then treat the body and fluids as contagious on contact. If you do deal with the body wear exam gloves, eye protection and a mask or bandana over your mouth, since any contact with your own blood, eyes, mouth or broken skin can transmit rabies! Treat any clothing or pet that comes in contact with blood or saliva as contagious as well for at least several days. Disinfectants and heat speed decomposition of the virus, but it's nothing you want to take risks with; there are only a hand full of people who have survived contracting rabies and they were all crippled by it, with sensory loss, neurological and organ damage.

[Evil D]

It depends on the person as much as the animal. I just read a story about a guy who fought off and killed a grizzly with his bare hands by ramming his arm down it's throat and biting it's throat out. I think people can do amazing things when they're pushed to their limits and their life is threatened, but it also depends on a person's fight or flight response and willingness to survive. After all we didn't rise to the top of the food chain without the ability to hunt and defend ourselves, and we didn't always have more than a stick or rock to use as a weapon.

[demoncase]

I could probably handle a basket of kittens....I mean, they'd initially overpower me and then I'd just basically let them snuggle up to me and I'd spend the next 12-15 years doing their bidding....but I'd be happy. :D

[paladin]

Technically, wouldn't it be "hand to paw" combat, or "hand to claw?" Just tryin to keep it real, as the kids like to say

Rabid raccoon v. human + knife...go ahead & make your appointment for your rabies vaccine treatment. :eek:

Not many critters south of a wolverine that's more tenacious than a coon...maybe a badger is more ornery. :mad:

[awa54]

I could probably handle a basket of kittens....I mean, they'd initially overpower me and then I'd just basically let them snuggle up to me and I'd spend the next 12-15 years doing their bidding....but I'd be happy. :D

Yeah, but RABID(ly cute) kittens? That would be quite a challenge!

I have two that are 4 to 5 months old and spend most of their waking hours chasing each other around my apartment like the little maniacs they are, they're also teething, so both have been getting scruffed at least once a day for attacking and biting human feet.

[Doc Dan]

There have been people who have killed bears and mountain lions with axes. I would not recommend this as a sport, however.

[Ankerson]

Well percentage wise humans don't really have much of a chance against predators one on one if the human isn't armed so if one is actually hunting a human that human is in big trouble because they will never see it coming.

That said predators are not stupid and don't normally take on game that can hurt them unless they are cornered or they are protecting their babies.

Or should I say predators don't normally hunt humans here in the US, normally humans pets like dogs are the real target or small children, not full grown humans. They normally avoid all human contact.

Now other places in the World like Africa and India that does happen and the humans don't normally survive being hunted.

That said there are stories of humans surviving attacks, but those are really very rare and have more to do with pure luck on the humans part than anything else really. In reality a human out in the wild unarmed and alone will normally be food in the end unless they are very lucky.

[bearfacedkiller]

I have studied and read about wilderness survival for years. Everything I have read says that if an able bodied adult man fights with everything he has that he should walk away from a mountain lion attack. Usually the person is in very bad shape but your chances of living to tell the story depend on your will to live. Now if you go any bigger than that you don't stand a chance. If you go smaller just hope that whatever it is is alone. It would be a bad day for a coyote if it thought about attacking me. Wolves are pack hunters and you wouldn't stand a chance. Thankfully we have been strongly reinforcing the notion that we are nothing but trouble for a long time. Most animals want nothing to do with people. The only animal that I have ever run across in the woods that wasn't scared of me was a moose and that was a scary moment. I kicked up two moose cows once at about 30 feet. They just stood there and stared at me. Every other animal I have run into in the woods has just taken off running as soon as I got near. Any animal that attacks a human is either desperate or scared.

[Bloke]

I don’t think we have rabid racoons or dogs in Oz, but if we do, we’ll fight them!
When we go fishing up North we often have to compete with the local Saltwater Crocs and I’ve found that the easiest way to deal with them is to find the biggest, nastiest Salty in the billabong and punch his lights out! Word spreads pretty quick in and around a billabong and they generally leave us alone after that. Sometimes they’ll yell abuse from the snags but that’s about it. Not sure if the same approach would work for rabid ‘coons and dogs but it’s probably worth a try.
If you’re not a very good fighter you could probably achieve the same with a good stick. Anyhow, hope this helps! :rolleyes:

[OldHoosier62]

We were taught that if you had to go "hands on" with a large animal that we should clinch up, hang on and treat your knife arm like a sewing machine and stab as deeply and as often as possible....until the animal breaks off the attack, the animal dies.....or you do.

This use to be a seriously discussed subject back in the old days...don't know if it still is or not.

[awa54]

@Platinum on Blade Matters posted this very helpful infographic on the subject a while back:

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Here is a sortof related question: With enough training, do you think a carnivore type animal, like a grizzly bear, or tiger, could be trained to defend its owner/human caretaker from others of its kind? Like could a tiger raised up and trained up from a cub/kitten be trained to defend its caretaker from attacks from other tigers or would that not be something the trainer could rely upon if attacked?

[Bloke]

I'm not sure if we have tigers in Oz, but a bloke, a while back caught a hatchling Salty Croc and had it for a pet for many years. When it got big enough, it ate him! I couldn't tell you if he was a bad trainer or if the Croc was plain hungry or anything when it ate him, but eat him it did!

[demoncase]

Here is a sortof related question: With enough training, do you think a carnivore type animal, like a grizzly bear, or tiger, could be trained to defend its owner/human caretaker from others of its kind?

Like could a tiger raised up and trained up from a cub/kitten be trained to defend its caretaker from attacks from other tigers or would that not be something the trainer could rely upon if attacked?

Not under any circumstances- no.

Tigers are just very big cats.....If you've any experience with small domesticated cats you'll know that they have many, many fine traits but reliability isn't among them. :)

There are many examples of lion/tiger handlers down the years being mauled by their own long-term trained big cat
(Seigfried and Roy are the one that springs to mind)

Further- Big carnivores aren't noted for their amenability to training......At some point, no matter how domesticated you think you've got 'em, they are going to want to take a bite out of you to see what you taste like (and that's before relying on them to keep you safe in a bad situation)...What might be a playful nibble or a bit of roughhousing between two grizzly bears is going to leave you as a puny human in a spreading pool of arterial blood.

And further- the concept of walking an apex predator on a leash for 'personal protection' is somewhere between insanely cruel (These are animals never intended to be pets) and simple insanity.....That's without considering that the animals you suggest are mostly endangered.

A .44 Magnum loaded with hollowpoints is lighter, safer and easier to handle than any of the above.

[bearfacedkiller]

I do not believe in the domesticating wild animals, especially dangerous ones.

[The Mastiff]

I watched a video of a Grizzly who is used in movies pretty regularly snap and kill a guy who was working with it's owner/handler. It took the over 6 foot human in it's jaws like a terrier does with a rat and the human had as much chance as a rat would against a terrier. THe bear seemed unaware the owner was beating on it with a stick, then pepper spraying the bear. That is what finally got the bear's attention. After 2 to 3 seconds of that attack no matter if the attack was in a trauma center nothing could have helped the human survive.

This was about a 1200 lb animal. I agree with Jim about animals that prey on humans. They usually hit the person from behind. If there isn't anybody with them they are finished. It's typically the person near by that does the attacking. A mountain lion will be experienced at killing at trying to get the kill over as quickly and safely ( to it) as possible and they are pretty good at their job.

Joe

[Blerv]

Humans are inept at nearly all physical activities compared to animals. We are able to create tools though. It's wise not to give up this advantage :).

[awa54]

A .44 Magnum loaded with hollowpoints is lighter, safer and easier to handle than any of the above.

And legal in more places as well I'd bet.

[rodloos]

Human teeth and fingernails are no match for a big cat's or bear's claws and teeth, not to mention our slower reflexes, weaker muscles. If the animal is hungry and in its element and surprises the human, no of course it is not match. Face-to-face, I'd still not want to risk it. Cats can disembowel other animals/people quite rapidly with their hind claws.

When I was a kid my dad used to have a picture on the wall that he took of South American native who was reaching into an armadillo hole when he was attacked from behind by a jaguar. The only thing that saved the guy was the fact his arm was so deep in the hole, the jaguar didn't get a complete grip on the back of his head. He managed to scream and scare off the jaguar, but it took many months (I think it was over a year) and a lot of medical treatment for the wound on the back of his head/neck to heal. Jaguars can bite hard enough to crack large turtle shells, and kill caiman (relative of alligator) and crush human skulls.

Now smaller animals like snakes, *if* we see them and are prepared for them and we can arm ourselves with a stick or machete, we might stand a chance. I'd rather not go up against one of those spitting cobras though :). And very few people die of snakebites from rattlesnakes here in the US, but some of those snakes in South America, a person won't live long enough to even get to a location for medical help.

And then there is the pathetic weak little insect, the mosquito, which may be carrying malaria, or (as has been in the news so much around here in Texas) Zika or West Nile virus, and kill you slowly :).