Stropping Equipment? Let's Compare

[JD Spydo]

There has been a lot of talk of stropping your blades here on the Spyderville Forum>> and particularly a lot of discussion has been made of it in the past 5 years or so. Stropping is one job that I've heard many different ideas about. There is a lot of discussion as to which leather or hide is the best as well as which rouge or compound to use with the strop.

A lot of guys have experimented with diamond dust and have had really great results and I've even heard of guys using all kinds of exotic materials for stropping other than leather or hide. I'm also wanting to pick everyone's brains as to what you all use to strop serrated edges with>> particularly Spyderedges.

Also who is the best source for buying strops and stropping materials and other sharpening tools related to stropping? I have two strops>> one is hand made leather made by a good friend of mine and my other one is the hide of a Russian Boar that I got from a Barber Supply company. I've had great results from both of them. So what do you all use?

[OldHoosier62]

I've been playing around with stropping edges since my Grandad taught me to shave with a straight razor back in the 70's. Back then it was either rough bare leather, finished leather and heavy canvas with the only variable was using "jewlers rouge" as an added abrasive or not.

Since then I have stropped and experimented stropping with paper, cardboard, mouse pads, denim, all sorts of leather from a multitude of creatures, and balsa wood. All with varying levels of success. Honestly, I get my best and most consistent results with a 100 year old barbers combination canvas and horse leather strop using Bark River green chromium oxide compound on MOST knife steels. I tend to buy old strops at auction and recondition them rather that buy current production....just like I only buy old straight razors, they have some soul in them.

But, as a knife geek I do have a half dozen other strops loaded with various factory made and some home brewed abrasives...just in case.

As far as stropping serrations, I strop the back side on an old beat up thick cowhide strop and then if I feel really froggy I take leather boot laces that I have coated in compound and buff each serration individually. Ends up "stupid sharp".

Like I said, I buy old strops so you'd need to hit a few older estate sale to find one, compound is readily available from a plethora of places so just pick a reputable knife or machinist supply house.

Good luck.

[JD Spydo]

Very Interesting Old Hoosier>> You're not the only one I've heard mention "balsa wood">> albeit I've heard it used with compound and diamond dust but the two guys I've heard talk about it more or less swear by it.

Also your mention of using very old Barber's razor strops from days gone by is also interesting. Because it was a Barber Supply company that I got my Russian Boar hide strop from. It's an interesting strop needless to say.

It's kind of made me wonder why Spyderco hasn't done their own version of a strop being they have a lot of sharpening expertise. Also it seems like you hear of woodworkers using them more than anyone else with the exception of old school Barbers who really know what they are doing.

I've also wondered if there are any synthetic materials that might make a good strop?

[EDC Honeybee]

I use the strops that whippeddog razors sells. They seem to be good leather for the job. I also use the red and green compound he sells over there (.1 micron and .3 micron). He sells kits that include a balsa and leather strop, pre treated with compound, for $25. I just got the leather strop and packets of compound, I think it ended up being about $20. Even though it is a handing strop design, I have it mounted to a solid surface for use on non-straight razors.

I think I need to get better at stropping, because I have never found much improvement on my edges with it. I can get great edges off of sharpmaker, lansky, or bench stones, but stropping doesnt take it much further. I might need to look into technique some more.

[EDC Honeybee]

I've also wondered if there are any synthetic materials that might make a good strop?

People in the straight razor community sometimes use polypropylene with their leather strops. Many even have both materials hanging from the same hook.

[JD Spydo]

I've also wondered if there are any synthetic materials that might make a good strop?

People in the straight razor community sometimes use polypropylene with their leather strops. Many even have both materials hanging from the same hook.

I"ve heard of a lot of different materials used for strops but this is the first time I've ever heard of polypropylene being used. And I'm very familiar with polypropylene too because I used to work in a factory once upon a time and we used that material for a lot of different things. It's kind of funny too because a very good friend of mine who is a "survival fanatic" and he is also an avid cross country skier>> he has told me that long underwear made with polypropylene is about the best you can get because it wicks moisture away from the body.

Not trying to go down another rabbit hole but I am sort of surprised to hear that it is used as a stropping material. I'm now wondering what other polymers could be used for stropping??>> If any??

[EDC Honeybee]

I've also wondered if there are any synthetic materials that might make a good strop?

People in the straight razor community sometimes use polypropylene with their leather strops. Many even have both materials hanging from the same hook.

I"ve heard of a lot of different materials used for strops but this is the first time I've ever heard of polypropylene being used. And I'm very familiar with polypropylene too because I used to work in a factory once upon a time and we used that material for a lot of different things. It's kind of funny too because a very good friend of mine who is a "survival fanatic" and he is also an avid cross country skier>> he has told me that long underwear made with polypropylene is about the best you can get because it wicks moisture away from the body.

Not trying to go down another rabbit hole but I am sort of surprised to hear that it is used as a stropping material. I'm now wondering what other polymers could be used for stropping??>> If any??

Not to advertise for him, but you can see how the poly strop is done here: http://www.whippeddog.com/products/view ... poly-strop
I have no experience with poly strops, so cant vouch for how they work.

[awa54]

I have a wood base with thin open-pored pigskin glued to it, it was designed for sharpening wood carving knives, but is fine for "regular" knives too. The compound is Herbs' yellowstone, which works really well both creating and maintaining useful, polished edges that still cut aggressively.

It doesn't really work on high carbide stainless though, or at least not anywhere near as well as it does on high carbon blades, or lower carbide stainless.


EDC, do you shave with a straight?

[EDC Honeybee]

EDC, do you shave with a straight?

Off and on, yeah. Usually a couple times a month I will take the time to do it. More often I use a DE safety razor. I have found that my skill with the straight is not good enough to get better results than a safety razor, but I am still practicing.

[awa54]

EDC, do you shave with a straight?

Off and on, yeah. Usually a couple times a month I will take the time to do it. More often I use a DE safety razor. I have found that my skill with the straight is not good enough to get better results than a safety razor, but I am still practicing.

I use a DE or injector, depending on my mood. Straights intimidate me, as do DE razors with total blade exposure like the FaTip... I had one and didn't butcher myself with it, but it took so much more effort to use safely and didn't actually give a better shave than more conventional razors.

[EDC Honeybee]

EDC, do you shave with a straight?

Off and on, yeah. Usually a couple times a month I will take the time to do it. More often I use a DE safety razor. I have found that my skill with the straight is not good enough to get better results than a safety razor, but I am still practicing.

I use a DE or injector, depending on my mood. Straights intimidate me, as do DE razors with total blade exposure like the FaTip... I had one and didn't butcher myself with it, but it took so much more effort to use safely and didn't actually give a better shave than more conventional razors.

Straight razors are not as bad as they sound. You pick up pretty quickly how not to cut yourself. Its a skill a bit like sharpening. If you tilt up, you ruin it/cut yourself. If you tilt down too much, it doesnt do the job. Only shaving is a bit easier because you have feedback from your hands and your face.

[anagarika]

My primary strops are washboard (www.washboardsharpening.com) with various grits on paper as recommended and my own paperboard end grain strop with Autosol.

Over at BF there was also discussed about Balance Strop, an idea introduced by bluntcut.

I think the reason Spyderco doesn't introduce one is that for practical use, the Sharpmaker with correct edge leading to deburr is all you need.

[Monocrom]

I use just an old, cut down, leather belt.

[Echo63]

I have a knivesshipfree strop and BRKT green and black compounds for my convex knives
Everything else is stropped as part of the process on my Edgepro.
2000/3000 grit polish tapes followed by mothers mag polish on 3m nexcare tape stuck to a blank for the edc knives
I then raise the angle a tiny bit, and do 2-3 really light passes (pull only or it cuts the tape) to finish
Kitchen knives get coarse diamond, fine diamond and BRKT green on balsa - its nowhere near a nice mirror polish, but it cuts beautifully in the kitchen.
I have some flexcut gold to try too - might give that a go on the other balsa strop i made

[EDC Honeybee]

My primary strops are washboard (http://www.washboardsharpening.com) with various grits on paper as recommended and my own paperboard end grain strop with Autosol.

Over at BF there was also discussed about Balance Strop, an idea introduced by bluntcut.

I think the reason Spyderco doesn't introduce one is that for practical use, the Sharpmaker with correct edge leading to deburr is all you need.

How do you like the washboard? I have seen it around but it seemed like a pretty foreign idea. Does it work as advertised?

[anagarika]

How do you like the washboard? I have seen it around but it seemed like a pretty foreign idea. Does it work as advertised?

I use it mainly to clean up burrs and shine up the edge. Given the hard backing, I have less rounding even compared to the Balance Strop.

The manual and illustrations is also very helpful in understanding what's happening and the tactile feedback enhances consistency.

In short, yeah, I like it!

Edit to add recent discussion that he touched upon the concept & findings: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... st15806597

[Evil D]

I started out a few years back using a strop and I thought it was God's gift to sharpening. I had never experienced edges so sharp.

Then one day, Cliff posted a comment about strops and their cons, and they made sense to me. Namely, that they can't be cleaned of impurities, they're inconsistent compared to a stone, and and I realized that they were holding me back from really developing my skill on the stones.

So, I put the strop away and went back to sharpening 101 and really focused on how I sharpened, and I began seeing significantly sharper edges. I now don't believe a strop can do anything that a high grit stone can't, up to the point that you simply can't find a stone with a fine enough grit to compare to what diamond paste can offer. For me, that level of edge refinement is extreme overkill, since I don't shave my face etc.

Then, about a year ago I was playing around with my S110V Manix 2 LW, I had sharpened it the same as I had been, and I saw a strop laying around so I gave it a couple passes....and once again I saw an improvement in sharpness. At this point, I wondered if I had regressed some in my sharpening skills, or if perhaps I just wasn't getting this steel as sharp as others (I'd say both are possible). So, in my laziness, I started stropping again, but I made it a point to only strop ONE TIME after I sharpen from stones, and then from that point on when I needed to sharpen again, I took it back to the stones, cut off the stressed edge, resharpened properly, etc, and then stropped a few times for a final edge. This has worked fine. But...

A few months back...heck it may be close to a year now I don't remember, but I got a Sharpmaker. It took some learning curve, but I gotta say the edges I get off the ultra fine rods are as sharp as anything I've ever touched, including my stropped edges. The only thing I've done that come close to this, is using my 3k Edge Pro tapes after polishing an edge, and using them to put a micro bevel on an edge at only 1-2 degrees higher than the edge bevel. For whatever reason, this really seems to refine the edge and in my mind it does what stropping basically does, but it does it more consistently and precise since the tape is a consistent texture/clean/etc.

I think part of this is bad technique on my Edge Pro. I think I have a heavy hand, and on the final strokes, I'm giving it way too much pressure. This is the only thing I can come up with. I've ruled out stone differences, since I also have a 30k grit stone for my EP, so unless the ultra fine rod is even finer grit than that, it isn't stone related. On the Sharpmaker, I have such a lighter touch, I think that it helps prevent burr formation, which I know has been an issue for me on the Edge Pro.

So, these days my usual routine is to set the bevel on my Edge Pro, polish it and get it as sharp as I can. Then if I'm not satisfied, a few swipes on the ultra fine rods and it's screaming sharp. At this point I've tried stopping, and honestly it seems like I usually lose some bite from the edge when I do. This could also be poor technique, but I feel I'm pretty good at stropping. Could also be my strop...it's nothing fancy, just some strips of crafting leather I picked up at Hobby Lobby (looks and feels like pretty nice quality suede). But, honestly I'm so happy with the edges I get off the ultra fine rods that I don't really feel a need to explore more with the strops at this time. I still have a bunch of diamond pastes, I may pick it up again later.

[anagarika]

Evil,

Your experience is quite similar to mine. I think it's also the reason HeavyHanded created the washboard. Less rounding with still lots of bites.

[JD Spydo]

Yeah I also remember CLIFF's information on Strops and Stropping and I did find it interesting>> and believe me I have the utmost respect for all the great information CLIFF has shared with us and I've learned a lot reading what CLIFF has posted. But based on my own uses I've had fairly good luck using various types of strops and experimenting with different strop materials and equipment. Which is why I started this thread because I don't think that all stropping tools and equipment are created equal by any means. There are just so many different types of strops, compounds, polishes, diamond dusts and other types of equipment you see used by woodworkers, jewelers, meat cutters ect, ect,.

For instance the actual material that the strop is made of I believe plays a huge part in your final results. I have noticed that the strop I got from a Barber's Supply made from "Russian Boar" hide seems to have a completely different texture than just about any conventional type leather I've ever used. I was hoping that there would be some Barbers among us who would chime in>> I would also like to hear some input from advanced woodworkers as well on the subject of stropping.

Believe me I would be the last person here on the Forum to try to dispute what Cliff has shared with us>> but something tells me that there is a lot more to stropping than what most of us are aware of. It's like any other skill it has to be done right and with the right equipment IMO.

[Evil D]

Yeah I also remember CLIFF's information on Strops and Stropping and I did find it interesting>> and believe me I have the utmost respect for all the great information CLIFF has shared with us and I've learned a lot reading what CLIFF has posted. But based on my own uses I've had fairly good luck using various types of strops and experimenting with different strop materials and equipment. Which is why I started this thread because I don't think that all stropping tools and equipment are created equal by any means. There are just so many different types of strops, compounds, polishes, diamond dusts and other types of equipment you see used by woodworkers, jewelers, meat cutters ect, ect,.

For instance the actual material that the strop is made of I believe plays a huge part in your final results. I have noticed that the strop I got from a Barber's Supply made from "Russian Boar" hide seems to have a completely different texture than just about any conventional type leather I've ever used. I was hoping that there would be some Barbers among us who would chime in>> I would also like to hear some input from advanced woodworkers as well on the subject of stropping.

Believe me I would be the last person here on the Forum to try to dispute what Cliff has shared with us>> but something tells me that there is a lot more to stropping than what most of us are aware of. It's like any other skill it has to be done right and with the right equipment IMO.

I think it all comes down to burrs and how you handle them. If a person is leaving a burr on their edge after the stones and then going to a strop, the knife is going to come out sharp, no doubt about it, but in doing this you're bending the teeth of that burr straight to make it sharp, which is going to stress the steel. This is just a fact that can't be disputed, if you bend steel, it weakens. When you do this, the edge isn't as strong, and as such the edge retention is going to suffer.

By comparison, if you leave the stones without a burr or with the absolute least amount of burr possible (based on your skill) then at the very least you're reducing this effect.

If you're the type who uses a strop many many times to "maintain" the edge, you're just bending the steel back and forth over and over and eventually the edge retention is going to suck. At that point you really need to destress the edge on a fine grit stone and start over with applying a new edge.

So, it may or may not matter. A guy who isn't concerned about having ridiculous edge retention may never care. A barber for example doesn't need his straight razor to cut through 10 miles of cardboard and still hold an edge, he just needs to shave one face between going back to the strop, and sometimes while hitting the strop DURING that one shave. This is why it's a bad idea to compare a barber and his use of a strop to pocket knife use, unless all you ever do with your pocket knife is pluck hair off your arm and open your mail.




Now...where I've changed a bit on my stance with this is, I've found that I mostly use steels that have a ridiculous edge retention anyway (like S110V) and so that even when I do strop, whatever loss in edge retention occurs is made less noticeable by how wear resistant this steel is, so the retention is still amazing and I'm still satisfied enough between full on sharpening sessions. So, I have afforded myself a little room to be lazy in my sharpening routines and I'll strop one of those steels every once in a while and whatever negative effects there are have been minimal at best.

But, lately I've also been playing with much less wear resistant steels, namely some very simple carbon steels that are extremely easy to sharpen, and I've found that I simply have zero use for a strop whatsoever, because they're so easy to get screaming sharp on my stones/Sharpmaker that stropping just doesn't make a difference anymore (or perhaps my skill with the strop and/or quality of my strop are lacking so I don't see any improvement). These steels are the ones that suffer the most from repeated stressing of the edge, and I've found that if you don't destress the edge and remove that weakened steel, you're going to pay for it when you really start using that blade hard, as it's going to dull much faster than normal.

So, like the barber and his straight razor, this all just depends on the steel you're using and how you use your knives and your performance expectations. I think to the vast majority of people, none of this is a big deal and they're probably just fine using a strop. But, I also think that the vast majority of people don't put that much thought and effort into things like edge retention and steel type. So, which kind of person are you and which do you care more about? There really is no wrong answer.