Norwegien Prison system: Could it work in USA?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I got into an interesting discussion with a Norwegien and he was telling me how in Norway they have a model prison and they treat the criminals, even the most violent, with incredible respect and there is no death penalty and there is no life sentencing. The prisoners get large spacious private rooms and the prison guards are not armed with firearms, and eat with the prisoners; they have fully stocked kitchens with full sets of hard dishes and knives of every sort *(kitchen knives) and he claims they all treat each other with respect and love and then proceeded to tell me that America is so barbaric compared to the Europeans in this and some other respects. One of my comments was that at least America has the Constitution and free speech and the second amendment. I mean I don't want this to create a political debate but I am sincerely wondering: Could this Norwegien method work in the USA or not and if not, why?

Here are some articles about this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They get vocational courses, nature walks, art classes, and a wide range of ammenities:

I would like to hear from Europeans here: What do you think of your nations and how they treat you? What are your views of the social welfare systems and would they work in the USA if America followed the exact same pattern? Or is that slow steps towards Soviet style communist dictatorship?

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norw ... ul-2014-12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Norwegien guy also told me something else: He said that sadly in America, the prison system has also become a money making scam on the people, and there are rich corporations who have vested interest to keep things going as they are.

I personally look at it like this: I distinguish between the violent offenders who should be treated differently than the nonviolent. I could see the Norwegien system working for non violent offenders but violent offenders like murderers, rapists, serial killers, child molesters, etc, have to be separated from the rest of society for the protection of victims and potential victims. And non violent offenders who did not physically attack someone's person but who stole from them should have to restitute their victims. Someone like Bernie Madoff, for example, should not be locked up with violent criminals but should have to pay restitution to his victims who he conned.



This European man told me that one problem is that in America the population seems to want prisoners punished first and rehabilitated second, and that in Europe they care more about rehabilitation than punishment. Is that true?

According to what I read, the longest sentence people get in Norway with few exceptions is about 21 years, and to get that one has to be really really bad.

Here is another article on this:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/3-re ... ?a=viewall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[twinboysdad]

No. Norway penal system and offenders have next to nothing in common with the US equivalent. I would only be in favor of this if the funding came from an existing source, meaning it ain't costing me s#!t. I have a better idea, don't break the law. Have you seen how Russians treat their prisoners? Even the most hardened US inmate would be in the fetal position crying for mommy if sent there. I think the guy in AZ who makes them sleep in tents with no AC is onto something

[The Mastiff]

We have prisons in the US with a lot of easy time with plenty of great activities, education if desired and better medical and dental care than I have after a career working in corrections. They aren't really all that popular amongst citizens who pay taxes. Some even hold jobs outside, have vacations and weekends away from their sentence. :)

Our country has one of it's major political parties trying to demonize people just for making too much money. Now we are supposed to treat serial killers and pedophiles better than many working class Americans? Won't fly for long.

We have a lot of inmates way too dangerous to be held in the above conditions and they would not hesitate to rape and murder the other inmates and correctional officers ( including raping the male CO's)

Norway's entire system is barely equal to some very small states. Indeed, there are counties in the US who have jails with a larger number of incarcerated people than Norway.

It's like how people claim they want to model our government after Scandinavian socialism. They hold them up as models routinely offering slanted, cherry picked numbers and facts about them. Look at Bernie's run at President for evidence of that.

What they think works there ( isn't working there no matter how much they spin it and that becomes more and more obvious as time goes by) for sure won't work here and it's tragically naive to think it would.

[David from NC]

You make a very lucid point here and call for an interesting debate.

No, it wouldn't work though.

[SpyderNut]

The Norwegian penal system is an interesting concept. The U.S. penal system has used similar approaches in the past—albeit on a much less “loving” basis compared to what you are describing. When looking at prison and even jail in any context, one must first consider the ultimate objective of incarceration: to deter people from committing crime. (I majored in criminal justice while in college. This was an interesting and complex issue even back then).

Over many years, the penal system in the United States has shown a tendency to swing along a gradient between two major “polls” (or objectives) in dealing with incarcerated individuals: rehabilitation or consequence. Under the “rehabilitative” stance of the penal system, the basic belief is that love, respect, and encouragement will help lead incarcerated individuals into making better decisions, learn from their mistakes, and ultimately return to society as a rehabilitated and contributory member. By contrast, the “consequence” stance of the penal system is based on the premise that incarcerated individuals cannot—and will not— learn from their mistakes and will ultimately return to society only to commit more crimes. In this stance, the individual is incarcerated so that they are taught a lesson; they are incarcerated to pay the price for their sins against society—pure and simple. If they learn anything positive from their experience, so be it, but this is not the objective.

Obviously, it would be ridiculous to assume that either stance is completely accurate by itself. I would personally like to believe that some individuals (based on the nature and severity of their offense) would respond well to the “rehabilitative” approach and would indeed turn from their criminal ways and make something better of themselves. This has been proven to be true in some cases. However, I have also seen many writings that suggest that recidivism rates are staggeringly high for persons who are shown “mercy” through the rehabilitative stance. What then is the best course of action? I am probably over-simplifying things by saying this, but I believe that the judges in our U.S. court system should have the autonomy to make sentencing choices based on the severity of the crime. In other words, eliminate the “cookie-cutter” sentencing that that limited their ability to punish a crime. For example, why is methamphetamine such a huge scourge on our nation? I believe that it is because judges are only allowed to give a certain amount of actual prison time—and this is mitigated by “good time credit” and parole/probation abilities. Thus, the offending criminal is sentenced to five years, but is actually only going to spend about a year and a half behind bars (in a rather accommodating setting that includes free healthcare, education benefits, entertainment, and exercise) before they are eligible to leave on probation/parole. Unfortunately, I think (personally) that we need more teeth in our legal system. The crime needs to be met with an equal consequence. It is true that we will never be able to completely eradicate crime from society, but improved deterrents (by the way of stiffer penalties) will help prevent people from making the same mistakes repeatedly and ultimately reduce the number of persons who are incarcerated--which then in turn will help reduce the financial burden that is placed on the backs of taxpayers.

[Monocrom]

Two words..... "Cultural Differences."

No way in **** that type of system would work in America. Biggest reason.... Every homeless person would commit a major crime to live in the lap of luxury at a large complex that would be a "Prison" in name only. Free food, free housing, free medical/dental, free comfort. Even people who are not homeless.... Got someone you hate? Maybe your cheap as **** boss paying you shat wages?.... Do your best to murder him, and if he dies or not; no worries! Your "punishment" is getting sent to a prison that makes a minimum security prison in America look like a Soviet Goolag.

Even the most die-hard, insane, bleeding heart liberal American would think such a system used in America is going to be moronic.

[TheRaven]

No. Norway penal system and offenders have next to nothing in common with the US equivalent. I would only be in favor of this if the funding came from an existing source, meaning it ain't costing me s#!t. I have a better idea, don't break the law. Have you seen how Russians treat their prisoners? Even the most hardened US inmate would be in the fetal position crying for mommy if sent there. I think the guy in AZ who makes them sleep in tents with no AC is onto something

This ^^^^

[TheRaven]

Two words..... "Cultural Differences."

No way in **** that type of system would work in America. Biggest reason.... Every homeless person would commit a major crime to live in the lap of luxury at a large complex that would be a "Prison" in name only. Free food, free housing, free medical/dental, free comfort. Even people who are not homeless.... Got someone you hate? Maybe your cheap as **** boss paying you shat wages?.... Do your best to murder him, and if he dies or not; no worries! Your "punishment" is getting sent to a prison that makes a minimum security prison in America look like a Soviet Goolag.

Even the most die-hard, insane, bleeding heart liberal American would think such a system used in America is going to be moronic.

And this ^^^^

[JAfromMN]

I was in in the American prison system about 5 years.

I came out meaner and flat broke.

It's almost amazing I got back on my feet again


I did most of my time in a private owned prison contracted through the mn prison system

It was truly awful

Rocks in the food and lots of violence.

We need to try something different in the usa.

I'm lucky i didn't get Sucked into the system for life lots of good people do.


Ps my crime was a accident. I'm epileptic and I hurt a guy. I didn't mean to and I don't remember anything.

The system is garbage in the usa.

It's all about making money. That's it. No help

I received no schooling or any opportunities to improve myself in any way.

It's all about the money here they got 60.00 a day to keep my and im sure it cost less than 25.00 guards include. They didn't get paid well and we're very corrupt.

[JAfromMN]

O and I made less than a dollar a hour working hard .

I've never seen anyone come out of the US prison system better than they went in


It's all about the money. No one cares if you improve your self as long as the get there state money

It's a big scam

I'm sure alot of you know someone sitting in prison for something stupid . Land of the free home of the fast to run away from cops.

[JAfromMN]

Ok that is a soft spot to my life

I'll quit my rant.

Sorry if I got a little carried away

[ChrisinHove]

I know nothing about the Norwegian penal system, but I have briefly worked in a few UK prisons. FWIW my view is that bad prisons can turn petty crooks into worse criminals, which costs society and the tax-payer more in the long run. Sure, some, maybe many or perhaps even most cannot be rehabilitated, but I have no doubt at all that it can help some back into a useful life. Rehabilitation doesn't necessarily mean easy street, either. Often catching up on basic education or training can make the difference.
I wear jeans sewn in a (US) prison. The selected workers learn a skill, pass their time in something other than mind numbing boredom, and are said to have a 50% lower reoffending rate on release. The profits subsidise the prison, easing a little of the burden on the tax-payer, and my money isn't going to the gang-masters running a Far East sweatshop.

[anagarika]

Edited-never mind

[TomAiello]

The Norwegien guy also told me something else: He said that sadly in America, the prison system has also become a money making scam on the people, and there are rich corporations who have vested interest to keep things going as they are.

I agree with your friend 100% on that point. The "war on drugs" has become a profit making venture for prison companies in the USA at this point.

[Johnnie1801]

Comparing the US and Norway is like comparing apples and potatoes. Norway only has a population of 5 million and the crime rate is very low. Rehabilitating prisoners on the most part works because they have the resources and welfare state to back it up. The major flaw with the Norwegian criminal justice system is that it has never really had to deal with a horrendous crime. When Anders Breivik murdered 77 people (mostly teenagers) in 2011, he was looking at a maximum prison sentence of 20 years. In order to keep him in jail the State has had to have him declared insane even though he says he's not. Breivik is basically taking the mickey out of the Norwegian system, he walks around in his own clothes, does a university course, goes to the gym etc etc and he's able to keep espousing his evil right wing views.

I see a lot of governments now are interested in the prison reforms going on in Texas of all places. Apparently they have got to a stage where they are closing big expensive prisons and lowering the crime and re-offending rates by cutting jail sentences and putting more money into drug treatment programs and saving the taxpayers lots of $ at the same time.

[twinboysdad]

Just google "Russian prisons" on YouTube. I am telling you US prisons are obviously not bad enough to keep people from reoffending. The Russians have a much lower rate of recidivism because their prisons are **** on earth. I mean I threw up rum out of my eyes one night, and guess what? I never touch rum now. I learned from the unpleasantness and modified my behavior.

[TomAiello]

Comparing the US and Norway is like comparing apples and potatoes. Norway only has a population of 5 million and the crime rate is very low.

If the US decriminalized recreational drugs, the crime rate in the USA would drop by 80% overnight--that's just the drug charges, not the "follow on" crime, or violent crime committed by criminal gangs involved in drug trafficking.

And suddenly, we'd have a crime rate comparable to Norway's and all of a sudden it would be an apples-to-apples comparison.

[TomAiello]

Just google "Russian prisons" on YouTube. I am telling you US prisons are obviously not bad enough to keep people from reoffending.

Make prisons hard...people are still committing crimes. So, fix that by making them harder?

What we are doing isn't working, so we should do more of it?

If people aren't committing violent crimes, I see no reason why the taxpayers ought to be paying for they food and housing. And even less reason why we ought to be creating record profits for private companies that operate prisons for people who _aren't hurting anyone else_.

[twinboysdad]

Just google "Russian prisons" on YouTube. I am telling you US prisons are obviously not bad enough to keep people from reoffending.

Make prisons hard...people are still committing crimes. So, fix that by making them harder?

What we are doing isn't working, so we should do more of it?

If people aren't committing violent crimes, I see no reason why the taxpayers ought to be paying for they food and housing. And even less reason why we ought to be creating record profits for private companies that operate prisons for people who _aren't hurting anyone else_.

They have cable and AC...that we pay for. I am telling you the AZ sheriff in Maricopa County that makes them live in tents with no AC and wear pink uniforms is onto something. I just find not breaking the law really easy to comply with.

[Doc Dan]

I can tell you what would work for non-violent offenders. Singapore uses caning. If you have a martial cane trained man hit you on your backside a few times so that you cannot even walk for a few weeks and have to sleep on your stomach, you would avoid any possibility of a repeat offense.