Gout?

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kbuzbee
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Gout?

Postby kbuzbee » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:09 am

A recent (and brief) thread, and subsequent discussion with TBD, got me wondering...

How many of us have at some point (or currently do) suffered from gout?

I grew up thinking gout was a disease from the middle ages suffered by the likes of Henry VIII. But no! It's a current thing and apparently, I have it.

Anyone else? How long have you had it? Or how frequently does it recur? And treatments you find helpful?

Cheers,

Ken

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Re: Gout?

Postby Dr. Snubnose » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:09 am

My Dad back in the 70's got a really bad case of the gout. He researched it and found a Doctor who specialized in gout up in Canada. IIRC the doctors name was Dr. Shute. I was young but I remember the doctor suggested mega doses of Vitamin E daily.....In three weeks his gout was gone and it never returned....Doc:)
Sorry for the double post:
Last edited by Dr. Snubnose on Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gout?

Postby Dr. Snubnose » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:09 am

My Dad back in the 70's got a really bad case of the gout. He researched it and found a Doctor who specialized in gout up in Canada. IIRC the doctors name was Dr. Shute. I was young but I remember the doctor suggested mega doses of Vitamin E daily.....In three weeks his gout was gone and it never returned....Doc:)

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Re: Gout?

Postby kbuzbee » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:53 am

I've read a bit on vitamin E. I'll need to follow up on that. Thanks.

Right now I'm using epsom salt foot soaks and taking cherry juice. The foot soaks help with the pain. The cherry juice? Who knows? Maybe.

Ken

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Re: Gout?

Postby yablanowitz » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:36 am

I don't have gout, but my girlfriend does, and so does one of my co-workers. You need to understand that it is possible to have gout and not know what it is. In spite of the length of time it has been around and how well it is known, without going to a rheumatologist, your only hope of getting a correct diagnosis seems to be going to a doctor who also suffers from gout. The only certain cure is reducing your ureic acid levels by changing your diet or taking medication (or both). My girl is currently taking Uloric, and has her acid level down to the normal range. Her tophi have disappeared (run a Google image search for gout tophi pictures if you think just preventing flares is enough) and she has regained most of the mobility in her hands (at one point I had to drive her to the doctor because she couldn't even hold onto the steering wheel for more than a few minutes).

There is an excellent book titled Beating Gout, a Sufferer's Guide to Living Pain Free by Victor Konshin available in print or for the Amazon Kindle that helped her a lot. I highly recommend it.

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Re: Gout?

Postby Donut » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:27 pm

Someone I work with has it.

I told him about a news article that I read a week or two ago that said Tomatoes are not good for gout. He says "anything that is red" will make it flare up. I think Red Meat is the big one. He says fish doesn't, I consider raw tuna to be colored red.
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Re: Gout?

Postby kbuzbee » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:45 pm

yablanowitz wrote: There is an excellent book titled Beating Gout, a Sufferer's Guide to Living Pain Free by Victor Konshin available in print or for the Amazon Kindle that helped her a lot. I highly recommend it.
Cool, thanks! I'll check that out.

Ken

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Re: Gout?

Postby paladin » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:29 pm

It's bad brother...I know that, I've had 2 incidences...

No miracle cure that would work for everyone is available, that's for sure...

Indomethacin or something like that, is what they prescribed me...worked, but I think it just relieved the pain as my body rid itself of the uric acid crystals. Drink a lot of water & avoid sardines, anchovies, organ meats and other "rich" food-- think holiday dinner fare. Works for me...

Good luck Ken, keep us posted if you make a breakthru!

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Re: Gout?

Postby rodloos » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:11 pm

My Dad used to have many very serious bouts with Gout, and starting about 15 years ago I started having occasional flareups - not often, but *very* painful when it happened.

Both of us now take Allopurinol (prescription preventive) for it daily, and it works wonderfully.
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Re: Gout?

Postby paladin » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:21 pm

Also, lunchmeats Ken-- avoid them...

Especially things like Salami, Liverloaf, Souse, Pepperoni, Pastrami, etc.

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Re: Gout?

Postby yablanowitz » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:37 pm

Anything that is high in purines will aggravate gout, and some of those foods are surprising. Mushrooms and asparagus for example are both on the "never eat this stuff" list.

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Re: Gout?

Postby kbuzbee » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:47 pm

paladin wrote:Indomethacin or something like that, is what they prescribed me...worked,
She put me on that too. And Colchicine. I guess it's supposed to help get the uric acid out
paladin wrote:Good luck Ken, keep us posted if you make a breakthru!
Thanks! You know I will, but as you said, unlikely to be a universal solution.
paladin wrote:Also, lunchmeats Ken-- avoid them...

Especially things like Salami, Liverloaf, Souse, Pepperoni, Pastrami, etc.
Not high on my vegan foods list anyway ;)
rodloos wrote:Both of us now take Allopurinol (prescription preventive) for it daily, and it works wonderfully.
She mentioned that if I keep having flare ups. Any side effects? These meds make me loopy. Dizzy. Lightheaded. I don't take them if I'm driving anywhere.
yablanowitz wrote:Anything that is high in purines will aggravate gout, and some of those foods are surprising. Mushrooms and asparagus for example are both on the "never eat this stuff" list.
Yeah, they used to say that (beans too) but I think recent studies are making them question the veggie avoids. They can be higher in purines, or whatever, but for some reason, they don't often trigger gout. Or so I read.


Ken

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Re: Gout?

Postby twinboysdad » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:24 pm

I am a positive diagnosed, rheumatology supervised gout sufferer. There is so much BS on the web about triggers. I take 200mg of allopurinol daily and can basically eat what I want although I eat pretty healthy. My uric acid did not respond to 100mg but did to 200. I have coworkers on 300mg. Some say fructose can spike your levels. All agree beer is to be avoided. Keep your water intake high and avoid YOUR triggers. Research high purine foods and try to moderate. I still partially blame low carb/Paleo type diet over a long term for me having gout. I had one grandparent with gout, but my dad is the king of Scotch and Ribeyes and seems to have been spared this condition.

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Re: Gout?

Postby twinboysdad » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:29 pm

I will say anyone who thinks gout is self induced is also wrong. I am 6'0 and 175 lbs and although I did drink a glass or two of wine most nights, I also could run 3 miles in under 22 minutes and could deadlift 280 lbs at the time of my diagnoses. I ate loads of sardines and organ meat but very little carbs and almost no processed carbs. Now I drink a glass or two of wine on Friday and Saturday only and try to limit my red meat and black eyed pea intake. There is a link between ketosis type diets and gout. As a funny aside, an overweight customer of mine found out I had gout and was trying to give me advise and said "you can eat all the chicken you want". Such a misnomer. Purine content is purine content. Chicken has less than beef but there is no free ride. You have to pay the fiddler for everything that goes on your pie hole if you have gout. For me, processed meats like pepperoni and sausages, fried foods, organ meats, black eyed peas, and higher fat red meat cuts like brisket are triggers. Also asparagus in high quantity. I haven't smelled a beer since being diagnosed as the purine content added to the body's inability to excrete uric acid when competing with alcohol excretion are not worth it. Just like shellfish are not worth it.

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Re: Gout?

Postby twinboysdad » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:41 pm

Donut wrote:Someone I work with has it.

I told him about a news article that I read a week or two ago that said Tomatoes are not good for gout. He says "anything that is red" will make it flare up. I think Red Meat is the big one. He says fish doesn't, I consider raw tuna to be colored red.
Your coworker is wrong. Tuna has a high purine content. Catfish/tilapia and white flakier fish are lower. Salmon is a nice middle ground since you have the omega fats you need and the purines are lower than the other oily fish like mackerel. Tell you coworker to google "purine content food list". Some things that seem harmless are worse than beef short ribs!

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Re: Gout?

Postby twinboysdad » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:43 pm

Ken,

If you are going to try cherry juice it needs to be the Whole Foods type that is unsweetened and 100% cherries. Unfiltered is best. You will want to be near a bathroom about an hour later.

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Re: Gout?

Postby rodloos » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:46 pm

kbuzbee wrote:
rodloos wrote:Both of us now take Allopurinol (prescription preventive) for it daily, and it works wonderfully.
She mentioned that if I keep having flare ups. Any side effects? These meds make me loopy. Dizzy. Lightheaded. I don't take them if I'm driving anywhere.
No side effects from the Allopurinol that I am aware of, although sometimes medicines affect different people in different ways. And different people are affected differently by things in their diet. For my Dad and me, triggers included anything with wheat, and protein such as chicken and fish.
With the Allopurinol though, those foods no longer trigger it for us.

I think almost *any* meds *can* have side effects - I laugh at the TV ads for different meds, and at the end the disclaimer mentions "possible side effects up to and including death" :).
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Re: Gout?

Postby Dr. Snubnose » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:29 pm

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it...or if it's very obvious...but I know when my Dad's case of gout erupted the doctor told him to stay far away from alcohol....Doc:)

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Re: Gout?

Postby kbuzbee » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:21 am

twinboysdad wrote: I haven't smelled a beer since being diagnosed as the purine content added to the body's inability to excrete uric acid when competing with alcohol excretion are not worth it.
I know... One of the patterns we fell into during Arlene's vast array of doctors appointments was a stop at our favorite local restaurant on our way home. They serve a Guinness on tap that was just wonderful. Even after going to a (mostly ;) ) plant based diet I still enjoyed a couple each time we stopped there. Not having that beer the last couple times was painful, just not as painful as the gout it might trigger ;)
twinboysdad wrote:If you are going to try cherry juice it needs to be the Whole Foods type that is unsweetened and 100% cherries. Unfiltered is best. You will want to be near a bathroom about an hour later.
I've been taking it twice a day (about 2 tablespoons) for two weeks now. Yeah, it's a pure/only cherries concentrate.

I haven't noticed a laxative effect, but that's probably because my system is already used to getting 60g-80g of fibre a day. Any increase in fibre from cherry juice never even registered. ;)
rodloos wrote:No side effects from the Allopurinol that I am aware of, although sometimes medicines affect different people in different ways.
Of course, but good to know, thanks! I'm going to see if I can keep it at bay without but it's an option if not.
rodloos wrote:And different people are affected differently by things in their diet. For my Dad and me, triggers included anything with wheat, and protein such as chicken and fish.
With the Allopurinol though, those foods no longer trigger it for us.
I may need to start a food log and see if I can find any correlations.
rodloos wrote:I think almost *any* meds *can* have side effects - I laugh at the TV ads for different meds, and at the end the disclaimer mentions "possible side effects up to and including death" :).
Yeah, no kidding. Those disclaimers should make anyone think long and hard about taking ANY medication, including OTCs like Aleve (which I take 1-2 a week when I'm not on these NSAIDs) I already know I'm going to have a rebound headache for about 2 days when I go off them.
Dr. Snubnose wrote:I don't know if anyone has mentioned it...or if it's very obvious...but I know when my Dad's case of gout erupted the doctor told him to stay far away from alcohol....Doc:)
Yeah, all alcohol, but beer seems to be the worst, followed by red wine. I haven't completely given up my red wine (yet) but I can tell mornings after I had a glass from mornings I didn't.

Good discussion guys!

Ken

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Re: Gout?

Postby yablanowitz » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:56 am

People react differently to any given medication. My girl's reaction to Allopurinol was the worst gout flare she ever had. It lowered her acid from 10.5 to 10.3 in six weeks and effectively crippled her. Her doctor switched her to Uloric, which took her acid level from 10.3 to 5 in six weeks without setting off a flare.


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