Shotgun tips and advice?

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MattM68
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Shotgun tips and advice?

#1

Post by MattM68 »

So I'm having a Mossberg 590a1 shipped to a dealer, and it should be here Monday or Tuesday. Any tips for faster reloads, upgrades, or advice? What's the best home defense ammo? Slugs or buckshot? I've shot quite a few shotguns, but this is my first one. :) I have a 10/22, so I know a shotgun is a lot different.

Matt
sbaker345
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#2

Post by sbaker345 »

Good ole 2-3/4 00 buckshot, No 4 buckshot, not to be confused with no 4 birdshot, could be potentially even more damaging at very close range, but I find 00 buckshot more common. As you probably know, at indoor distances the spread is negligible, so aiming is still important.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#3

Post by SpyderNut »

Usually, the recommendation is for a short barrel (approx. 18") and 00 buckshot for personal/home defense. Slugs are fine, but not as effective for close-range encounters when your adrenaline is pumping and mass motor functions take over.
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chuck_roxas45
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#4

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

The thing to watch out for in home defense is over penetration. What kind of house and where should be considered in ammo choice.
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The Mastiff
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#5

Post by The Mastiff »

I usually recommend oo or ooo buck shot over No#4 buck as I've seen guys with a few pellets keep on going unhindered with torso hits. I'd say slugs are better but I agree that you probably are better off having buck. 9 pellet standard 2 3/4th inch load or 3 inch magnum 12 pellet load if you don't mind extra recoil. To be honest even the reduced loads for LE would be adequate in most circumstances.

My old mossberg extended magazine 12 ga had a habit of deforming the shells in the tube if left for long periods. They would not feed smoothly after that. Exchange rounds periodically if you keep the tube full and use the exchanged ones to practice only. It was never a problem with the 4+1 model shotguns, only the extended round tubes because of the greater spring force.

They are good shotguns.

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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#6

Post by Ruarch »

MattM68 wrote:So I'm having a Mossberg 590a1 shipped to a dealer, and it should be here Monday or Tuesday. Any tips for faster reloads, upgrades, or advice? What's the best home defense ammo? Slugs or buckshot? I've shot quite a few shotguns, but this is my first one. :) I have a 10/22, so I know a shotgun is a lot different.

Matt
Very good choice in a shotgun!

Faster reloads? Practice practice practice.

Upgrades? For home defense you really only need a flashlight mounted. But really the most important upgrade you can buy is many many rounds and practice practice practice.

Advice? Shoot the gun. Often.

Ammo? Slugs kick more but are a one shot stopper. If penetration and recoil aren't issues I would go with them. Otherwise buckshot works great as well. Shot placement is more important than ammo all day, every day though. Practice practice practice.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#7

Post by sbaker345 »

Yes can't overstate enough. Practice practice practice, people think because they can hit paper at 7 yards they can hit a moving target with adrenaline pumping. Also God forbid but of you ever have to use it. Take center of mass body shots not head.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#8

Post by Ankerson »

chuck_roxas45 wrote:The thing to watch out for in home defense is over penetration. What kind of house and where should be considered in ammo choice.

Exactly, over penetration is a major concern for home defense.

Shooting a shotgun indoors at those close ranges is basically like shooting a rifle so you will have to really aim as you would a rifle.

A Sawed off Double BBL 12GA with 00 Buckshot would be devastating indoors and it will spread pretty good.

But, with that gun I would go with 00 Buckshot and practice ALOT.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#9

Post by RexGig0 »

I like a rather minimalist, lightweight shotgun. My personally-owned Remington 870P patrol shotgun has an 18" barrel, no mag tube extension, and a bead sight. There is a Vang-comp barrel in place, to keep the buckshot pattern tighter for street fighting, but for a dedicated home-defense weapon, tight patterns are not needed. (My wife's Remington 870 Wingmaster has a cylinder-bore barrel.)

A recent modification, that I really like, is the Magpul stock.

Why Remington? It is the pump gun my employer authorizes me to use at work, and for a number of years of my LE career, we were expected to use only authorized weapons for defense, 24/7/365. That rule has now been relaxed for HD, but I would rather not mix weapon systems, with differing controls, more than necessary.

The Benell M1/M2 is the authorized autoloading shotgun, that I could use at work. In the past, the Benelli stock was not well-designed to mitigate recoil. I used an HK-era M1 Super 90 for a while, then reverted to the pump gun, for the sake of my boney shoulders. With the modern, seemingly more-comfortable stocks, I have been very tempted to try an M2 Benelli.
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chuck_roxas45
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#10

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

Ankerson wrote:
chuck_roxas45 wrote:The thing to watch out for in home defense is over penetration. What kind of house and where should be considered in ammo choice.

Exactly, over penetration is a major concern for home defense.

Shooting a shotgun indoors at those close ranges is basically like shooting a rifle so you will have to really aim as you would a rifle.

A Sawed off Double BBL 12GA with 00 Buckshot would be devastating indoors and it will spread pretty good.

But, with that gun I would go with 00 Buckshot and practice ALOT.
at ranges of less than 15 meters, you basically get a a 2 inch pattern max. Aiming well is basically a must. Just like you said, it's like shooting a rifle but with a bigger bullet hole.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#11

Post by Enkidude »

chuck_roxas45 wrote:The thing to watch out for in home defense is over penetration. What kind of house and where should be considered in ammo choice.
^^^this^^^

I use bean bag rounds as my first two rounds, followed by bird shot, followed by buckshot. I keep a sleeve on the stock that holds five extra rounds. I keep it stocked with one extra bean bag round, buckshot and slugs. I live in an apartment and over penetration is a concern. I like to have a variety of rounds available for whatever happens in and on the gun.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#12

Post by bearfacedkiller »

I think that there are too many gimmicks for shotguns these days. I prefer mossbergs myself so good choice there. The 590 does not have the endless options that the 500 does but as I said a lot of them are not necessary for your purposes. I don't need all the rails or any fancy sights myself. The only accessory that I recommend is a good flashlight mounted to the shotgun. Other than that I like to keep it simple and just use a gold bead myself.

As far as ammo choice is concerned I have 5 3" #4 birdshot in mine because I have a family and neighbors close by. I also have 5 3" 00 buck shot on a shell holder in the buttstock just in case. There is a lot of debate about this one. Some claim that 00 buck is the only way to go and some claim it over penetrates. If i lived in the country I would use it myself but I feel as though it has more penetration than most people realize. The FBI is a fan of the #4 buckshot because it penetrates less and still has a lot of stopping power. I would use it in my setting but it is definitely less common and more expensive than 00 buck and that is always a factor. Finally, there are a lot of folks who swear by various birdshot loads for self defense because they can't really overpenetrate and at close range the pattern is still so tight that they hit fairly hard still.

I use the 3" #4 birdshot because I worry about stray pellets/bullets and at 10 yards or less nobody is walking away from a load of #4 to the face. My home SD shotgun is a gun I have shot literally thousands of clay pigeons with as well as hundreds of ducks and geese as well as a few turkeys, rabbits and grouse. It is very much an extension of my body and I am confident in my ability to put shots exactly where they need to be.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#13

Post by The Mastiff »

at ranges of less than 15 meters, you basically get a a 2 inch pattern max. Aiming well is basically a must. Just like you said, it's like shooting a rifle but with a bigger bullet hole.
Nooo. 2-3 meters or less maybe. At 15 meters or more with a center mass aim and a full choke you will have a pattern that is larger than the silhouette targets we used from side to side and some up in and possibly over the shoulder for a miss.They were full size standard police style targets. With smaller and lighter buckshot like #4 the hits to the body weren't incapacitating around 50%( random guess. I never did any math) of the time even when hits to the torso are made.. We had guys hit with some pellets at that range and a bit shorter or longer climb a 15 foot concertina topped fence and keep going. One got a ride and was stopped in another state when he went in to a hospital with his then in labor wife. They noticed the blood and that led to his recapture at least 4- 5 hours later . I wouldn't want to exceed 20 foot if I didn't have to though that is still considered within range..

I never saw a .223 55 grain SP with a torso shot fail on an unarmored human in stopping the person at the ranges we had.. Yes we had people miss completely with the shotgun just like the rifle. The shotgun didn't seem to improve hitting the targets over rifles. Moving targets take training and some skill with either platform.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#14

Post by OldHoosier62 »

Chuck, you may want to read this as far as pattern size is concerned unless you mis-spoke "meters" and meant "feet".

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-t ... -patterns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My own experience with almost every "tactical/riot/HD" shotgun, both past and present, is a 2 to 4 inch dispersion at 5 yards....a 6 to 9 inch dispersion at 10 yards.....and a 10 to 17 inch dispersion at 20. Size of the dispersion depends both on the buckshot load used and the shotgun (barrel length and choke) it is being fired from.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#15

Post by Ankerson »

OldHoosier62 wrote:Chuck, you may want to read this as far as pattern size is concerned unless you mis-spoke "meters" and meant "feet".

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-t ... -patterns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My own experience with almost every "tactical/riot/HD" shotgun, both past and present, is a 2 to 4 inch dispersion at 5 yards....a 6 to 9 inch dispersion at 10 yards.....and a 10 to 17 inch dispersion at 20. Size of the dispersion depends both on the buckshot load used and the shotgun (barrel length and choke) it is being fired from.

I was thinking he ment FT instead of meters. :)

Those ranges will be very short typically inside a normal house.

Under 15 FT I would guess most of the time.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#16

Post by The Deacon »

At the ranges I could encounter inside my house shot size would be fairly irrelevant. Even a skeet load of #9 birdshot fired from a 12 gauge with an 18" cylinder bore barrel would have a totally devastating effect on anyone it hit.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#17

Post by Ankerson »

The Deacon wrote:At the ranges I could encounter inside my house shot size would be fairly irrelevant. Even a skeet load of #9 birdshot fired from a 12 gauge with an 18" cylinder bore barrel would have a totally devastating effect on anyone it hit.

That's true, basically point blank range with a shotgun is going to do a lot of damage to a person without body armor.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#18

Post by sbaker345 »

The Deacon wrote:At the ranges I could encounter inside my house shot size would be fairly irrelevant. Even a skeet load of #9 birdshot fired from a 12 gauge with an 18" cylinder bore barrel would have a totally devastating effect on anyone it hit.

I have to *somewhat* disagree. There have been quite a few tests showing poor penetration, 4-7 inches into ballistics gel with birdshot, would it chew somewhat up, absolutely, but there are no guarantees that it would stop someone, that is to say reach vital organs and break bone. anything that would stop or become non lethal by a couple walls would also be non lethal to the intruder, so regardless of loads hitting your target is important. What you don't want is something that will hit the Bg, go through him, through the walls, and through the neighbor, or if you miss something that will go through walls for the next couple miles.

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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#19

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

The Mastiff wrote:
at ranges of less than 15 meters, you basically get a a 2 inch pattern max. Aiming well is basically a must. Just like you said, it's like shooting a rifle but with a bigger bullet hole.
Nooo. 2-3 meters or less maybe. At 15 meters or more with a center mass aim and a full choke you will have a pattern that is larger than the silhouette targets we used from side to side and some up in and possibly over the shoulder for a miss.They were full size standard police style targets. With smaller and lighter buckshot like #4 the hits to the body weren't incapacitating around 50%( random guess. I never did any math) of the time even when hits to the torso are made.. We had guys hit with some pellets at that range and a bit shorter or longer climb a 15 foot concertina topped fence and keep going. One got a ride and was stopped in another state when he went in to a hospital with his then in labor wife. They noticed the blood and that led to his recapture at least 4- 5 hours later . I wouldn't want to exceed 20 foot if I didn't have to though that is still considered within range..

I never saw a .223 55 grain SP with a torso shot fail on an unarmored human in stopping the person at the ranges we had.. Yes we had people miss completely with the shotgun just like the rifle. The shotgun didn't seem to improve hitting the targets over rifles. Moving targets take training and some skill with either platform.
Yah sorry, I meant 15 feet.
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Re: Shotgun tips and advice?

#20

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

I
 ! Message from: Dr. Snubnose
like to use #01 buck over the #4 buck....I like to have the ability to shoot through objects like couches and doors or anything else the perp might use for cover indoors....Doc:)
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