Pocket Pistols

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RanCoWeAla
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Re: Pocket Pistols

Postby RanCoWeAla » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:52 am

I hate to tell whoever wrote this article but a double action revolver can be the most dangerous thing of all. That's how my Friend almost lost his leg. He was carrying a .357 Magnum in a holster on his right hip and all he did was bump the hammer with his rifle stock sending a hot 158 grain hollow point through the back of his calf about six inches below the knee joint shattering the bone and exiting the front. Also the Lady I mentioned earlier who dropped her purse and shot someone was carrying a double action revolver
Also as mentioned in one the comments the Israeli Defense Force believes there is no safer gun than one with an empty chamber and I think being in the most dangerous place in the world.they should know a little something about what they're doing. They are trained to draw with the off side hand in close to the body and push the slide of their Glock forward chambering a round in the process.

RanCoWeAla
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Re: Pocket Pistols

Postby RanCoWeAla » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:36 am

Mad Mac wrote:Safety first, but allow me to pose a hypothetical. What if a person has been injured or is holding off an attacker with one hand, how is the person going to rack the slide to chamber a round?

Here is a recent article on the topic from the NRA American Rifleman.
Now, to answer your question. There are a number of ways to accomplish this. You can hang the rear sight on the edge of your jeans pocket or you just press against the side of your leg and push forward, turn the gun upside down between your knees or place the end of the slide to either side of the barrel and recoil spring rod push forward and chamber a round. That's a few.

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MichaelScott
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Re: Pocket Pistols

Postby MichaelScott » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:28 pm

RanCoWeAla wrote:Trust me you'll find a way. I personally know of two who have either shot themselves or someone else carrying a live round in the chamber. ... I think you would agree that any civilian who carries a live chambered round is asking for trouble.
"Trust me you'll find a way." is not the best philosophy for self defense in a situation in which you may have to resort to your firearm for protection. And, I do not agree that "any civilian" who carries a chambered round is asking for trouble. I'm a civilian, a veteran, but now a civilian, who does so and I consider myself more prepared for trouble than if I did not.

Modern pistols do not fire because there is a round chambered. They fire because all of the mechanisms designed into the weapon to enable it to fire have been actuated by the user. In this example, carrying a loaded Glock (which has no manual safety other than the trigger safety) with a round chambered, unholstered in a shirt pocket is a bad idea. It's not that the gun is going to fire just sitting there in the shirt pocket, but that the trigger may be accidentally pulled while the gun is still in the pocket or during the user's attempt to draw it.

Basically unloading the gun, which is what you get with no round chambered since you have to actuate the slide in order to load it for firing, is safer from a negligent discharge perspective, but bad from a self-defense perspective. Regardless of the "trust me" attitude, the simple fact is that one may not be able to rack the slide during a violent confrontation. There can be many reasons: fighting someone off with one hand; one arm being held, or disabled or wounded; holding or pulling an innocent person out of danger.

If one is going to carry a gun like a Glock or the new versions of the M&P Shield which are sold without a manual safety for example, then use a well designed, top quality holster that protects the gun and the trigger from being actuated negligently.

There are really no "accidental" firearm discharges. They all result from human error, and, in my opinion, carrying a gun in a shirt pocket increases the possibility of one or of not being able to effectively bring one's self-defense gun into play under all circumstances.
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OldHoosier62
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Re: Pocket Pistols

Postby OldHoosier62 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:59 pm

I'm sorry, the herp and derp in this thread has gotten to the nuclear level. I am 54 years old and have carried a firearm an a near daily basis for 36 of those years...my daily carry guns 90% of the time are either a 1911 carried "cocked and locked" or a S&W revolver of one flavor or another with a fully loaded cylinder. Knowledge of the basic safety tenets of firearm and training/practice negates most negligent discharges. I have instructed military. LEO and civilians on safe, defensive firearm use and used firearms in defense of myself and others.....THE PRINCIPLE SAFETY IS THE ONE BETWEEN YOUR EARS. Remember that and it will save you years of grief and possibly your life.

The anecdotal evidence from our Alabama forumite is just that...anecdotal. In all probability his gunshot victim friend was wearing a non-transfer bar bearing revolver of a pre-70's manufacture (which was the reason cowboys carried hammer down on an empty chamber back in the "no safety" days) or one that some rocket surgeon bubba-gunsmithed by removing the transfer bar to improve the trigger pull, as was common and made popular by gun writers of yore. (INCREDIBLY STUPID IDEA....don't do this ever) The only other alternative reason is that the revolver was either defective or broken to begin with.

The lady dropping her purse with a modern double action and it going off is a perfect example of why you buy a concealed carry purse with an integral holster...NOT carry it loose in a purse where all manner of crap can get near the trigger and in the wrong circumstances cause a negligent discharge. Again...human error not the firearm.

With a very few exceptions in the "el cheapo" class of firearm....guns are safe, it is the human operator who make the bad decisions that create the safety issue.

And the Israeli argument is null and void...the ones who actually adhere to the "slingshot load" are a very small percentage and they practice constantly because of their situation. MOST carry with a round in the chamber, policy be damned, because they want to survive in a very dangerous place. If you don't believe that then go watch the footage on youtube of LEO/security service shootings over there...you won't see a single one loading as they draw.

In closing....TRAINING beats everything, don't ask "bubba" behind the gun counter for advice unless he is a certified trainer, modern guns are safe, people aren't.

KEEP YOUR BOOGER HOOK OFF THE BANG SWITCH.....until you are ready to fire.

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The Deacon
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Re: Pocket Pistols

Postby The Deacon » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:58 am

RanCoWeAla wrote:I hate to tell whoever wrote this article but a double action revolver can be the most dangerous thing of all. That's how my Friend almost lost his leg. He was carrying a .357 Magnum in a holster on his right hip and all he did was bump the hammer with his rifle stock sending a hot 158 grain hollow point through the back of his calf about six inches below the knee joint shattering the bone and exiting the front. Also the Lady I mentioned earlier who dropped her purse and shot someone was carrying a double action revolver
Also as mentioned in one the comments the Israeli Defense Force believes there is no safer gun than one with an empty chamber and I think being in the most dangerous place in the world.they should know a little something about what they're doing. They are trained to draw with the off side hand in close to the body and push the slide of their Glock forward chambering a round in the process.
It's your life, and you're entitled to your opinion as to how best to protect it. You've obviously given this some thought and come up with a system that allows you to carry a firearm while staying within your comfort zone. I can respect that.

Still, I feel it necessary to point out that the AD/ND scenarios involving double action revolvers that you describe could not happen with any DA revolver made in the USA within the last 50 years unless its internal safety device had been removed. You might be able to induce an AD by dropping the gun from a second or third story window, assuming you could get it to land muzzle first on a hard surface. Otherwise, it takes a hammer strike to move the firing pin forward with sufficient velocity to detonate the primer, and that can only happen if the trigger is pulled and remains all the way back while the hammer drops. So, even if your friend was carrying his .357 cocked, it would take pressure on the trigger to make it discharge unless it had been tampered with.

That's why I'll continue to carry my S&W J frame DA revolvers, fully loaded, with confidence.
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MichaelScott
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Re: Pocket Pistols

Postby MichaelScott » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:46 pm

Old Hosier and The Deacon are correct. If someone carries an old revolver made before modern safety mechanisms were included, which would be more than 50 years back, or had modified the firearm, it isn't going to discharge in the scenarios OP described. As was said, carry how you like for your comfort (as long as it is not a method that would endanger others) but false allegations must be challenged and dealt with for the information of others who may take them seriously.
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Dr. Snubnose
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Re: Pocket Pistols

Postby Dr. Snubnose » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:33 pm

Three Thumbs Up to Old Hosier, Deacon and Michael.......They speak the truth!!! Doc :D


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