AR carbine for home defense

[Doc Dan]

Here is a knowledgable man giving some good advice. It does not have to be an AR. A Mini-14 will do, as well.
Good article.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/article ... s-opinion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RexGig0]

Yes, it seems sensible to me. An AR was my choice for indoor (and outdoor) "offense" as well as home defense, before I aged-out of being able to perform my employer's athletic, timed patrol rifle "qual." I have had to revert to the pump shotgun, with which I can "qual" while remaining standing. As Sergeant Lamb indicated, the pump gun would be problematic if one sustained an injury that took a hand or arm out of the fight. I will add that a pump gun can be quite clumsy to handle when prone, at least with my long arms.

The shotgun is certainly able to do tremendous damage, per shot, to a living target, but a carbine-sized autoloading rifle would be my preferred choice if the fight went beyond one or two rounds. Having said all of that, I am "OK" with my Remington 870P, knowing that it will suffice for most foreseeable confrontations, especially when backed by my pistol.

That brings up one problem with a shotgun; I would not really want to be in a fight, with the shotgun as my only firearm; the pistol would remain very important for my peace of mind, as a shotgun has quite limited in-gun ammo capacity, and, as I said above, can be quite clumsy when prone.

I once found myself prone, facing two felons, who were under a house. Moments before, they had been engaged in a gunfight with narcotics officers. I became acutely hyper-aware that although I was likely to prevail against one, working the pump to engage the second was going to be painfully slow. Fortunately for all involved, they had dropped their guns before hiding underneath the house. Oh, to have had an autoloading rifle at that moment in time! (I learned to transition to a pistol before poking-around underneath houses!)

[harronek]

Even just a short double barrel shotgun is a devastating tool when the distances are short and the pulse is racing .
There is a undeniable intimidation factor when looking straight at the two big holes of a side by sides muzzle .
The best way to survive a gun fight is in my opinion to get the **** out of Dodge , but I do concede that if it did ever happen the more lead you can put in the air the better .

Ken

[farnorthdan]

Good article, the only thing I worry about with the AR in 556 indoors is over penetration but do agree a high capacity rifle is the way to go, I prefer my M1 carbine but also have my XDM 9 with 19+1 at bedside to get to the M1 in the closet.

[shunsui]

One thing about a shotgun is you can keep topping off the magazine tube. Shoot two, load two. With a bag of shells slung over your shoulder, it's a good weapon to bunker down with.

[demoncase]

Confined space + 5.56mm - hearing protection= permenant hearing damage....If you do choose an M4 for next to the bedside table, do yourself a favour and tape a couple of foam ear plugs to the stock. You'll still be able to hear footsteps and movement, just not going to blow your eardrums out.

There's just something about short barrelled 5.56mm guns that make them so much louder indoors than either pistols or shotguns....I think it might be the pressure wave from much higher velocity bullet that was really meant to leave a 20" barrel

[Ignaz]

I guess if there is a need for you to defend your home the gun choice dilemma is your least problem.

[Doc Dan]

Good article, the only thing I worry about with the AR in 556 indoors is over penetration but do agree a high capacity rifle is the way to go, I prefer my M1 carbine but also have my XDM 9 with 19+1 at bedside to get to the M1 in the closet.

This is the same principle. A short, easy to handle, low recoiling carbine is better than a handgun or shotgun in most scenarios. The .223 is a lot more powerful than the .30 Carbine and there is ammunition that will not over penetrate like a pistol round certainly will. The .30 Carbine is no slouch, however.

[RexGig0]

Confined space + 5.56mm - hearing protection= permenant hearing damage....If you do choose an M4 for next to the bedside table, do yourself a favour and tape a couple of foam ear plugs to the stock. You'll still be able to hear footsteps and movement, just not going to blow your eardrums out.

There's just something about short barrelled 5.56mm guns that make them so much louder indoors than either pistols or shotguns....I think it might be the pressure wave from much higher velocity bullet that was really meant to leave a 20" barrel

I would not really want to fire anything indoors, if at all possible, but being permanently hearing-impaired beats being permanently dead.

I do have some Surefire hearing protectors placed in an easy-to-remember spot, available if there is time to use them.

If I acquire a dedicated home-defense AR, a Noveske "flaming pig" would be a leading contender as the flash hider, as it does a decent job of directing the noise forward, away from the shooter and anyone beside the shooter. Because the decibels are not suppressed, it does not attract attention from the USA's BATFE.

[tvenuto]

I actually read that article, and there were definitely some good points made. I think Rex makes several more good points, especially about engaging multiple threats with the pump.

I think it's all about knowing your particular surroundings. I live in a row home in Baltimore, and my maximum line of sight from my house is probably 50 yards, and that's only in one very narrow direction. I could throw a tennis ball off of the houses across the street and catch it again before it hit the ground. Thus, for me, a rifle would offer little advantage over a handgun from a range perspective. If I could have possibly recognized a threat at rifle distance, I wouldn't still be here because I would have found out about it from something other than sight (like the news saying an angry mob is on its way).

On the inside, my house itself is 50 feet long, and 17 feet wide, with some very narrow spots where a long gun could be cumbersome to maneuver. The hallway outside my bedroom is only wide enough for the bathroom door to open. Thus, my first choice is my FNX 45 with a flashlight attached. It's large for a handgun, but that's not really a factor in a home defense scenario, and 15+1 of 45 ACP just makes me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside. This isn't my particular gun, but it's pretty much how she's dressed (thread needs more pics):

[Doc Dan]

Those people that have fired a gun in self defense will usually tell others that they did not hear much, or anything, of the sound of the gun going off. It seems the senses sort of shut down in such a case. Flash is another issue entirely. It can be blinding. Some 9mm, 40 S&W, 357 Mag, etc. rounds are blinding at night. The fireballs are impressive. The same is true for the .223. Some ammunition makers have low flash offerings to minimize flash and the resulting flash blindness at night. It all comes down to ammunition choice.

My wife is very tiny. She might weigh 100 lbs soaking wet. There is no way she can shoot a 20 gauge shotgun with any confidence. However, she can use an AR15 and do so accurately and well. So, we used to (can't do that where I live at the moment) keep an AR Carbine ready to go (no kids at home) along with our handguns and lights. An AR round will ruin your day if you get hit with it.

[bearfacedkiller]

I think it would be way too much flash myself. I live in the burbs and a GP100 with some 38+P hollowpoints is all I need. I don't see myself needing to engage in any prolonged firefights where I live so when things go bump in the night I just grab my trusty revolver and my 1000 lumen flashlight and check it out. I used to live out in the country and I kept a rifle of some sort loaded and ready then but not where I live now.

[wrdwrght]

I get American Rifleman as an NRA member. When I read this article, I grew increasingly irritated with the author's irresponsible cheerleading, but then I'm not an AR manufacturer.

[tvenuto]

I get American Rifleman as an NRA member. When I read this article, I grew increasingly irritated with the author's irresponsible cheerleading, but then I'm not an AR manufacturer.

What specifically did you think was irresponsible? Obviously, there is no one perfect solution for everyone, and people will be partial to their favorites, but I thought there were some good points made.

[Blerv]

I guess if your home is a ranch and you are plucking off zombies as they crawl towards your front door :).

I'm not a gun expert (obviously) but the phrase "home defense" seems to me perfectly married to a shotgun. Insane stopping power and you don't have to worry about bullets killing children hundreds of yards past your own walls.

[The Mastiff]

Insane stopping power and you don't have to worry about bullets killing children hundreds of yards past your own walls

Not so insane stopping power from personal experience except in certain situations.My life experience is that the .223 soft point stops better than buck shot. I've seen people get up and go with buck shot in them but never after a body hit from .223.

As far as rifles for home defense while I'd not really want to shoot a .223 indoors without hearing protection it is easier to shoot for some, faster and easier pointing in some situations and much quicker reloading. Definitely less recoil for those that need less for whatever reason. The .223 with the right loading won't penetrate like 30-06 AP or .50 browning. 12 ga can over penetrate in some cases just as rifles can. It's safe with sober and knowledgeable people using it and makes as much or more sense as any shotgun for home defense. In some situations I'd rather have a Benelli,some the AR, and some a pistol makes better sense. Not one platform checks all the boxes like anything else. I do distinctly un-recommend a 22lr for any self defense. That also from personal experience. A 22 is better than just harsh language though. :)

I feel it's better to have more options when available, which it isn't always. There is no one answer to all uses at home any more than there is a knife or steel for all uses. Can one make do? Hopefully, but not when I can have options. Naturally I no longer own firearms though. :)

Joe

[Doc Dan]

A good test is to take yourself and your loved ones to a range where you can reel the target in to you quickly. Start at 15 feet or so and run the target back towards you like you were being attacked. Each in turn tries to defend using a pistol, shotgun, and then a short carbine (less than the length of a yard stick). I think just this simple test would be an eye opener.

There are other tests you could do, too.

I did try this, and some other things. I kept a shotgun handy, and pistols. But the lesson learned was the carbine was better at putting hits on a target while under stress. So, the carbine became our families go-to gun. We also did not have to worry about flinching from recoil fear (a very real issue). Plus, the .223 has ammunition available that will not zip through sheetrock. A 9mm will go all the way through a house, on the other hand.

[twinboysdad]

Pistol caliber carbine anyone? Same principles as the AR but less penetration, less noise, ZERO recoil. If Glock would ever get off their butts and make a small carbine that accepted G17 mags, they would sell like hot cakes

[Doc Dan]

The pistol caliber carbine is a great choice as it has higher hit potential than a pistol, very low recoil, and is easy to maneuver. The downside is they will over penetrate more than an AR in .223. You have to choose your ammunition carefully. Most frangible ammo will not go through a wall, but neither will it always penetrate enough in a soft target to incapacitate. However, muzzle blast is less. There are trade offs.

I have both back home and there is nothing wrong with that choice. Pistol caliber carbines, 30 Carbines, and AR's are better choices over all than a handgun, in most cases.

[shunsui]

... In some situations I'd rather have a Benelli, some the AR, and some a pistol makes better sense...
Joe

Which Benelli do you like Joe ? A friend of mine is obsessing over a M4. Got to say the design does look sweet.
A little pricey for home defense, but I'd sure like to take one to a shotgun match.

Tom