"In the field" is an area where SE is definitely at a disadvantage. Or to say the least, you need to plan ahead and bring some type of appropriate sharpening device if you really expect to dull your SE while out in the field. A simple tapered diamond rod can put a great working edge on practically any SE knife and if you're truly "in the field" then you won't care about a mirror edge sharpened up to 10k+ edge grit. However, one advantage of SE is no doubt that the edge is typically tougher and will take more abuse, and even once it gets pretty dull will still "saw" through many materials long after a PE knife has thrown in the towel and just slides across the material.SpyderEdgeForever wrote:I know the issues of serrations has been discussed before but here we go again, and I add this warning: This can be a touchy topic because of so many well-seasoned opinions on the matter.
One core basic starting question: How necessary are serrations when it comes to cutting power and ability? Could a well-made and well-sharpened Plain-Edge knife do all that one can do with serrations, or, are there certain cutting tasks in which a Serrated-Edge is absolutely necessary and functionally just better, that would leave the PE 'in the dust'?
I don't know if there really is any scenario where serrations are actually necessary, but there are certainly situations where serrations can perform better than PE. That doesn't mean you can't get the job done with PE, you may just have an easier time using SE. I think probably any job CAN be done with PE, but some jobs will certainly be easier with SE. If I could only have one knife, it would no doubt be PE, but fortunately I'm not forced into choosing one or the other and can carry both (and I do).
Regarding the serrations themselves, they come in different forms and different patterns, from more open saw-like ones to very closely-spaced serrations, some more curved, others more square-like: In what way does that make a difference?
Size and pattern can greatly change how serrations behave. If you think of a PE hawkbill blade for example, the entire blade is essentially one very large serration. The point of serrations is....the point, or points. If you space the serrations too far apart (in other words make them too big/wide), then the points are also spaced further apart and performance begins to resemble more of a hawkbill type blade. When the points are closer together, they penetrate the material being cut, allowing the scoops to do their thing. If you make the points too close together (think bread knife) then you run into a similar situation as a "bed of nails", where the points are so close together that the surface pressure created by the blade being pushed into the material is distributed over so many points that they're less likely to pierce the material. So, you need to find a balance somewhere in the middle of all this. I haven't tried every pattern available, but I do think Spyderco's pattern does a very nice job. For my personal uses, I could actually live without the small serrations and would probably be happy with just repeating large serrations.
Some have said a very sharp and thin edge that is plain edged can outdo any serrated edge for most cutting tasks: Would you find that to be true?
I wouldn't say this is true or false. It's very circumstantial. If you're slicing things, then yes a thin PE will no doubt perform the best (think surgeons scalpel). Serrations are definitely a specialized edge, and so they will perform better in specific uses, whereas PE is obviously going to be the most versatile. But again, simply saying that one can out perform the other is silly until you define what is being cut. Even then, you have to consider things like edge retention, edge damage (think steak knife and a ceramic plate) etc..
And thirdly, what are some good ways one could re-sharpen a serrated edge in the field if they did not have access to a quality sharpening tool like a SharpMaker or other system? Could you sharpen a serrated edge with natural stones if they are the right shape, or would you have a very difficult time doing this?
Yep...and load up the lace with polishing compound.twinboysdad wrote:I have heard mention regarding Emerson serrations that they can be stropped using a leather bootlace. I have never tried it myself but it would make sense on paper. We are talking field sharpening though
Doc I was certain that it was yourself and two others here on the Forum who attested to the prowess of the C-60 Ayoob in full Spyderedge in a controlled meat cutting test and a couple of other tests I remember being mentioned in the past. The C-60 Ayoob along with my full SE JD Smith just seem to be like lasers with teeth when I use them. Now I've got to be fair and honest because I've never done any controlled meat cutting test or any scientifically controlled test period as far as that goes>> but I have one huge test that I've past with flying colors and that's the "Everyday Usage Test". Which those two models prove your testimony on blade geometry being a huge factor agreed? Which to me is almost as important as the one you executed.Dr. Snubnose wrote:Serrations and Self Defense? Most say no no...the teeth get caught up on clothing and this makes a shallow cut. Be that as it maybe true I have found some exceptions to the rule. The two that come to mind are the Spyderco Mas Ayoob SE, and The Timberline Mini Pit Bull CE. The SE Ayoob, in meat tests I performed, did not get caught up on Jeans and was just as if not more effective then the PE Ayoob. Might have something to do with the serrations in combination with the blade and handle geometry. (guessing). The Timberline (Lightfoot design) Mini Pit Bull's serrations are not concave and pointed like a spyderco serration but a different design of rounded edges and valleys. I have not seen this type of serration on any other knives...Interestingly it also, like the Ayoob does not get caught on clothing and performs like a PE. But those silly little (lets call them) reverse serrations are extremely aggressive cutters. so go figure....I too am interested in learning more about and hearing more about all different types of serrations and people's experience with those different types......Doc:)
The original full Spyderedged DODO model had a really nice serration pattern and for the most part TBD I tend to agree with you. I actually used mine quite a bit and it's one Spyder that I traded that I've never been able to replace Which is why I so much want Spyderco to at least do a Sprint of the original SE DODO model from the 2003-2004 era.twinboysdad wrote:I am betting a SE Dodo would not snag on meat with clothing in the way. I would also add my new Pac Salt has the best (read shallowest) serrations I have ever used. The H1 Dfly I bought was sent down the road because of the snaggy points.
And Doc you would be the last person here on the Forum I would argue with concerning any type of blade testing. But the response I gave to "Twinboysdad" was not really based on whether it would snag on clothing or not but again the one thing I distinctly remember about the one I carried for a while was how controlled I could keep my cutting with it>> and I can't say that about every Spyderedged knife ( or anyone elses) that I've owned and used.Dr. Snubnose wrote:Tested: Dodo does indeed catch on clothing...sorry...Doc:)
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