What is really going on in Ukraine

[Parhelion]

Hi there knife fellas. I love Spyderco knives just like you do. I start to collect them last year and now i have 16 of them. But now i should forget about my hobby because i live in Ukraine and life there became tough. Economic system is broken and all funds i have i should keep to buy some food supplies. Ukraine is just in one step to a civil war. I don`t know what your media says but our is overloaded with information and propaganda.

I`ll give you guys some information as a citizen and direct observer. I know it may be boring to read this, but i hopes you are not apathetic to what is going on in our world. I will try to be as short as possible but it is hard because things is complex.

Also i will try to be as objective as possible. It might be a interesting story to you, i was thinking that Game of Thrones is a super saga, but now i have something more epic right in front of my eyes. That`s makes me sad.

1. Ukraine is historically multinational country. There are about 100 nations living there, but main population is Russians and Ukrainians. And this two nations are really close genetically and historically like two brothers. I am personally half-russian and half-ukrainian. I was born on eastern side but now i live in western Ukraine. Also Ukraine and Russia have deep links and connections in economics and heavy industry as a legacy of USSR.

2. Ukraine is divided to 25 administrative regions, like states in USA. And those regions are tends to have certain beliefs. But of course beliefs are not strict and may vary from man to man:
- Western regions is tends to be a part of Europe. This part of Ukraine has no big industry objects, main income is from turism. Also there is strong far right moods, deep nationalism, racism etc. Not everyone of course have such views but much more than other regions. There are mixed population consist of ukrainians, poland people, jews and less russians.
- East and South have pro-Russian moods and feelings. All coal mines and most heavy plants are placed there. Mostly russians lives here and ukrainians too. About 75% have relatives in Russia.
- Center regions has kind of mixed moods. Also there are some industry constructions.

Also i should tell you a few words about how our economy works. Every region generate some money, then money goes to our capital - Kiev, and then government decides how divide money between regions. Eastern regions generates much more money because of heavy industry and people there must works in mines and plants. Western regions is turistic and usually they gets more money than they can generate. Also work there is easier in average.

3. I was born in USSR and since it was broken and Ukraine gain independence we have very corrupted government all the time. Whoever gets power starts to steal everything they can. Thats why Ukraine have great potential and resources but still a very poor country. Last few years we have goverment from East regions. When i have to vote for parliament or president i vote not for a good one but for a smaller evil. But nevertheless those few years was fine i can`t see any objective reasons for mass riots. Except one - west regions hate east ones and especially because of main party in parliament and president.

4. How all this happens
- We have not great but legal president and government. They are was accepted by Europe and USA as legal. Obama shaked Yanukovich`s hand and congratulated him.
- Once up on the time government decide to think about Association with European Union. Many people says hooray! We will join EU and will be able to go to Europe easily to get some jobs, also our salaries will grows 10 times, we all became rich and happy. Well, i believe nobody really reads this Assosiation document because it is not join with EU but something different. And there no reasons to salaries grows or simplification of boundaries crossing. Up to this document Europe has no any responsibilities but Ukraine has a lot. Also it will kill our internal food market (because of complex European standarts) and industry. People in eastern regions thinks that Ukraine must increase connection with Russia, it is easier and gives us real profits because of industry links.
- Suddenly president says like Nah we won`t sign it right now, have to think about. That was a great surprise for many of us especially in western and central regions. They are already was prepared to be europeans. Also it was a surprise for EU and USA as far as i understand. For sure there are grand geopolitics involved. If Ukraine join EU in any possible way it will affect and weaken Russia a bit.
- After that we had Maydan (sounds like My+Dun, means town square, it from the name of main square in Kiev - Square of Independence). What Maydan is? A lot of people came to main square of the capital to demand to sign assosiation with EU. Some of them comes by true believes and hopes of better life, some was affected
by tons of propaganda, some was from Right Sector.
- Right Sector is group of far right organizations, they proclaim nationalizm, clearness of ukrainian race, ultra patriotism etc. Their leaders fought in Chechnya wars on the terrorists side against Russia, also they honor some ukrainian people and organisations who was on Nazi side during WW2. Mostly Right Sector is young strong guys who has some combat training and skills. Also right in our parliament we have Svoboda (Freedom) party which is nor formally in Right Sector but absolutly share their beliefs. Thats how far all goes. Of course Right Sector hates russians, poland, jews and everyone also except ukrainian nationalists.
- Also we have opposition who want to change government with helps of Maydan and Right Sector.
- Ok so what's happens next. For about 2 months Maydan was less or more peaceful. But president instead of signing unprofitable association with EU signed nice profitable aggrement with Russia. And there was BOOM. Maydan under massive propaganda and ruled by active and dare Right Sector members inside became very dangerous. They start a real riot, and trying to assault administrative buildings in Kiev.
- Government called special forces to defend buildings and order. This forces called Berkut (i believe it is like Golden Eagle in English). Those forces has just metal shields and clubs but no firearms. About few weeks Berkut holds positions. But Maydan became unstable, they throw big stones and molotov cocktails to the police. It was really scary and shocking those guys from Berkut was burned alive you can find videos in youtube if you can but watch without children please. Few days they hold position with just shields and clubs, they are was not allowed to use guns by government.
- Of course oppositions propaganda called them traitors of nation and people. My opinion that they are just do their duty and hold chaos.
- And of course somebody start shooting. I don't know who it was fisrt. Maydan says it was Berkut. Berkut says it was Maydan. Berkut had to save their lives and start to shoot back to only armed people. Those armed guys from Right Sector was mixed with others like teenagers, women and just ordinary men.
- All this time government was under the pressure. At the end president says ok lets make new government, but Maydan should give up all guns and leave all captured buildings. Opposition say ok. Also this agreement was signed by Poland, Germany and France representatives.
- But i think it was a bad plan for Right Sector and they start escalate conflict with Berkut. Opposition is not really controls Maydan. In this chaos about 87 mans died from Maydan side and about 30 of Berkut. Dead people from Maydan was proclaimed as heroes and called Sky Hundred, Berkut was ashamed and Damned. I believe mass media in western world share this position.
- After that city come to chaos. Maydan occupied Rada (Main government building), Berkut was called back, President ran away with his securities. Everyone who shares Maydan believes celebrated a victory.
- Next. New "government" was formed, many positions was occupied by Right Sector. Even some in a Ukrainian Security Service. Also was proclaimed a temporary president. Obviously he is not legal, because we still have old coward one. In Ukraine we have procedure to fire presidents. This procedure needs to be done in Constitutional Court but it was disembodied by new government.
- Banned Berkut retreat to Crimea peninsula (like a half-island). Crimea became a heart of resistance to new government. Also about 80% of population there russians and one of the city there is base for Russian Marine Fleat of Black Sea.
- Now Russia come in play. Before that it was busy with Olympics games, but of course keep an eyes on Ukraine. Many thinks that Russia wants to join Crimea because it is really valuable piece of land. Maybe it is true, but I think Russia will not, it is hard and will cause many problems. Also in 1994 Ukraine became not-nuclear country and Russia, USA and Great Britain sign agreement which said that they are guarantee integrity of Ukraine in case of external threat.
- First of all Russia gives political support for those regions who resist new government. Now Russia proclaims that it will be forced to use military forces in case of violence in South and East regions of Ukraine to defend russian population there (which is about 80%). Because this regions don`t want to accept new pro-nazi government.

[Parhelion]

- Now we have total mobilization of Ukrainian Army, because new government scared of Russia. But Russia will not bring any troops if South and East will be able to decide their own future. And of course nobody wants to fight because we are brothers. But Army commanders have to accept orders, also some of them shares
oppositions believes. But Right Sector trying to provoke violence in East cities, they have automatic weapons captured in police departments during chaos and anarchy. They came on the buses and trying to provoke locals by demonstrations, assault of buildings and ruins memorials of WW2. Locals have no weapons to resist them in arms. Also this can be accepted as riots and cause a reason to use Ukrainian Army at the East.
- Right Sector also asked for a help of Islamic terrorists on their social media page. They are fought with them against Russia. But now they said that someone is steal their password and all if this is provocation.
- Also one of the leader of new government says that Ukraine can became a nuclear country again if Russia will not stop intervention. This is technically absurd but there is something to think about.
- Main problem is that Right Sector is armed, half-legal and not controlled by anyone. And if government decide to get rid if them, who will do this? Berkut is fired and ashamed. It can be a Ukrainian Army or Russian. Also people who lives in south and eastern regions have other opinion. They wait for Russian Army like for saviors from Right Sector Nazi terror. Which is more that real treat.

5. What is next? I don't know. Nothing good obviously. In best scenario we will have economic collapse in worst economic collapse and war. Who is guilty? I don't know, maybe western government and secret services who makes our country a stage of geopolitical game. Maybe we are Ukrainians guilty case we was stupid and hateful to each other. But Russia now have to deal with it and solve our problems.

Thanks to those of you who read to the end. And sorry for my bad English.

[ugaarguy]

Your English is very good. I can't write or speak a word of Russian, Ukranian, or any other Slavic language. It's quite a bit to digest, but thank you for the informative, citizen on the ground report. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Stay strong in this time of crisis brother.

[UpDok]

Parhelion,
Thank you for your thought-provoking and interesting essay about the current unrest in the Ukraine. Most of the news agencies in the USA that I'm aware of are portraying the situation as a violent conflict between freedom-loving Ukrainians and some of their corrupt politicians. The Russian government unfortunately is portrayed as using the internal conflict in the Ukraine as an excuse to invade and seize power in a sovereign nation.

I hope and pray that cooler heads prevail and that the situation ends peacefully, and without foreign oppression. Thank you for keeping us informed.

[phillipsted]

I did some digging today to put Ukraine into perspective for Americans:

1. It is about the same size as California and Oregon combined.

2. It has a population of 45 million - equal to California, Oregon, and Washington states combined.

[bh49]

I also want to thank you for report. My family and I emigrated from Soviet Union in 1991-1993. Some of us lived in Russia, some in Ukraine and some in Lithuania. Tonight about 20 of us had a dinner at one of our relatives home and topic of Ukraine was brought up. Of cause none of us cannot accept, if Putin will take over Crimea and/or Eastern regions. But we are concerns, why Poland, France and Germany, who were guarantors of agreement did nothing to stop violence, but supported it. Also we have grave concerns regarding "right forces", who acts like Nazi and worship Bendera, who during WW2 spilled blood of thousands innocent people.
I appreciate your information. Sadly, but for some reason this side of the story is not reported in the most of US sources.
Stay safe.

[Parhelion]

Guys thanks for your support.

UpDoc,
it is one group of corrupt politicians and moneybags trying to get power from other group also corrupt and super rich but elected in legal way. All this made using freedom-loving but stupid people as a tool. And with a help of warlike nazi Right Sector. This also can be just first layer of truth.
Russia was fine even without Crimea, they already have Navy Fleet base there for about 25 years. But now of course Russia can`t stand aside. If you remember Russia was country who insist to not bombing Syria. So how Russia can let chaos be in brothers Ukraine.

bh49,
No one wants to divide Ukraine in two halfs and especially Russia. If you know NATO trying to build military bases as close to Russian boundaries as possible. They already did this in Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia etc. All this countries was in USSR. So if Ukraine will be divided west part will immediately join NATO. So dividing Ukraine is more usefull for USA. But what to do? Citizens of South and East can`t accept new Nazi-government.

If somebody needs a news resource whish is alternate to officials, you can try http://rt.com/. It is international, more Russia-positive but of course can be propagandistic as well but from other side. I don`t know who own it.

Also some western media i see start to shows more realistic picture of what is going on
BBC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... kiSPMpTp_I
Alex Jones - https://youtu.be/fEKAWB7rCgc
https://youtu.be/AMRZIOUBLkw

maybe there is more i don`t know

[The Mastiff]

No one wants to divide Ukraine in two halfs and especially Russia. If you know NATO trying to build military bases as close to Russian boundaries as possible. They already did this in Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia etc. All this countries was in USSR. So if Ukraine will be divided west part will immediately join NATO. So dividing Ukraine is more usefull for USA. But what to do? Citizens of South and East can`t accept new Nazi-government.

You really think the USA wants to get involved in a conflict with Russia over Ukraine? No more than it did over Georgia. We have no traditional ties or interests anywhere near there. Don't really want any either no matter what you have been told. Just about all those countries in that region have wanted military equipment, training, positioning of US or NATO forces and hard treaties. We have limited it to some sales, some help training forces and not much else outside of Poland. The Baltic countries do have help from NATO with air defenses ( 4 NATO jets at any one time rotating with the next European NATO country every 4 months helping secure their airspace. A joke to the Russians who violate the Baltic countries airspace at will even with the 4 NATO fighters there :) )

Since the break up of the USSR the former European countries that had escaped the yoke of the communist government controlling them have tried to become closer to Europe and the USA due to fear of an overbearing and overwhelming Russia which routinely has rattled their Sabers and used threatening language and military positioning of forces feeling that one day Russia will attempt to bring them back under the fold.

Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and even Poland has done everything they can to gain the support of the west in fear of what they see in Putin in particular. Europe and the US ( through NATO mostly) have attempted to make them feel more secure while not actually antagonizing Russia's very real traditional interests in their area of influence. It's a difficult and tricky line to walk.

Russia's at times over aggressiveness in their military positioning, news releases, threats of nuclear attacks, and mock attacks simulating nuclear strikes ( what we called "Alpha strikes") on countries like Sweden, Lithuania/Latvia, Czech and Slovak nations, etc. have rightly contributed to this feeling.

Russia has been behind "their" politicians in the Ukraine and are seen as the threat by much more than just western oriented "neo nazi' nationalists in Ukraine.

I don't begrudge Russia feeling they have vital interests in the Ukraine. How would the US react if the Russians were seen to sponsor politicians and movements in Mexico or Canada? I'm sure that's how Russian people feel about having a western aligned nation in territory that was theirs ( the USSR) not all that long ago.

I'm sure there are right and left wing groups on both sides of the fence and at times they and their boneheaded actions and statements can be useful but by and large outside of the Ukraine this is more being viewed as Putin taking advantage of a weak and faltering west ( not just the US ) to begin, or continue his attempt to put the USSR back together. To him the fall of the USSR was one of the worst things that ever happened in modern history. Yes, he may be the worlds richest man and he does keep a lid on the old style communists but his desire for greater power is well known and this Ukraine "crisis" was just a matter of time. Don't think the pro Russian Ukrainians are, or will be running this show either. :)

[noseoil]

Parhelion, thank you for your view of this conflict. It is usually more complex than we see in our news here in the US, much more complex. I watch BBC news in the evening for a better world perspective, it is much more thorough and complete than ours is.

It is a complex problem, but there are several things we can see here which are very simple. Government corruption can be used to make a wealthy country poor, and make it poor for the citizens who have to live under its control. This is human nature, unfortunately, and happens many times in history. The corrupt want power and more power, and are willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen. A free people have weapons and know how to use then to resist tyranny from the government. Turning citizens against each other works to keep some people in power, the citizens poor, and creates instability which others can take advantage of to work their agenda. No one in Europe or America is strong enough to stand against Russia & Putin in this case. There is no political will to stop what it happening and no one wants another war at this point, especially after the last 10 years of problems in the middle east, the cost in economic terma and the cost in lives lost. It is a great tragedy we are having to watch.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to the people of the Ukraine, that they will get their country back and live in peace some day.

[Parhelion]

First of all I should say I don`t want to start a fight with anyone. You are a smart guys and your views may be absolutely different. I understand and respect that. All I want is just describe what I see now right in front of my eyes. I`m 30 and whole my life I live here in Ukraine. When USSR was broken up I was 7 so I am not a communist or something. It is all up to you to believe me or not.

You really think the USA wants to get involved in a conflict with Russia over Ukraine? No more than it did over Georgia.

I don't say that. All I say is if Ukraine will be divided then in western Ukraine will be another NATO base as close to Russia as possible. For sure USA don't want to be involved in this in any official way. Like it was in Georgia. Officially Russia is aggressor but i can`t see any Russian bases there just NATO. There are old political principle - "Divide and conquer", it is easy way to get something you can`t get in direct conflict.

About russians planes over baltic countries. I don`t know much about that. But if you look at the map you can see that one of the russian regions (Kaliningrad) is separated and lies between Poland and Lithuania. So there no other way to get there and do not cross some boundaries. Also it is a nice coincidence that those two
countries have NATO bases and air forces =)

I understand that there are a lot of propaganda from both sides and probably truth is somewhere in between. But i don`t know why you so bother about communism? As far as i know North Korea is only country with it.

Just in case if you not understand what is communism and what is main principles of it.
Principles:
- "plan economy" (Russia has "market economy" just like any other country)
- no big private properties, all lands, industry and resources belongs to nation (nothing similar to Russia, many of those belong to rich people)
- one party in government (a lot of parties in Russia)

Also i should repeat i`m not trying to create good image of Russia and Putin. All i sayd that East and South of Ukraine is praying for russian army to save them from pro-nazi forces that came to power in Kiev. There are real threat to their lives and future. I know that because i live whole my life there. But 2 days ago more that 150 thousands of ukrainians already cross boundary and move from Ukraine to Russia. Today this number must be much higher.

[eric m.]

Parhelion, thank you for the update and history! My thoughts and prayers are with the "little people", and you also! When the wall came down and the USSR was divided, most of the world was fooled into thinking that Russia was no longer a superpower! Behind the scenes, and under cover of darkness, the Russian Bear just went into hibernation. Sad to say, but there is no way Russia is going to let any "separated states"-especially the Ukraine, being the bridge to Europe, from their grasp! I would stock up on supplies, anything, including things that can be bartered! Russia and Putin have been arming themselves to the teeth while The USA and the rest of the world have been duped! Putin is going to restore Russia to her GLORY DAYS, and there is nothing NATO and the U.S. can do but sit back and make empty threats! Don't rely on the rest of the world! Remember GEORGIA! Sorry to say this to you but it's better than believing in a false hope! Take care, and THE LORD KEEP YOU!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I read and was told and heard that Ukraine was a center of steel production and heavy industry manufacturing and also a center of wheat and grain production both during the USSR/Communist era and before, in the old Czarist era, and for many years before that, for centuries. Is this true?

Supposedly some very advanced Soviet submarines with thick titianium metal hulls were produced there, and there was alot of development into cutting edge metal and materials technologies. Like the ability to use special frequency lasers to weld and cut and mold and shape hard metals for the use of boat and submarine hulls and tools.

I love the Slavic and Ukrainian and Russian and Baltic people. The food is very good, too. I don't know if any of you are familiar with it, except the people here from that region, but they produce some of the BEST rye type breads and baked goods on the planet. There is this dark Ukrainian bread that comes in different levels of color and flavor and also has nutritious seeds in it. It is great for sandwiches and just eating right out of the container.

[Evil D]

First off, lets all be very careful not to let this turn into a politics thread...those aren't allowed here, and I'd hate to see such an informative thread get shut down.

Second, I really feel for ya man, I can't imagine living with all that crap around you. Propaganda and playing on peoples' patriotism and lack of education/knowledge is how the wrong people rise to power. America gets a lot of crap because our government tries to "police the world", but it's hard to stand back and watch people die over these kinds of issues, when it's easy to see the problems and even easier to see the solutions.

[Parhelion]

I read and was told and heard that Ukraine was a center of steel production and heavy industry manufacturing and also a center of wheat and grain production both during the USSR/Communist era and before, in the old Czarist era, and for many years before that, for centuries. Is this true? .

Yes, that's true for USSR period especially. In Czarist era Ukraine was mostly agricultural place. We have one of the best fertile soils on the planet. They called "chernozyom" (means "black soil"). It gives great harvest if work on it properly. Basically it is so great that nazi when occupied Ukraine in 1941 transfer our soils by trains to Germany. It is historical fact. After USSR brake up ukrainian industry starts degrading especially metallurgy and precise machinery productions and institutions. But we still have some plants, coal mines and produce engines for aircrafts and sold them to Russia. Our coal is also one of the best quality in the world. It called Antratsit and gives a lot of heat when burned. I hear that in western countries Antratsit used only for chemical purposes. I don`t know if it is true. But we just use it to prepare food and make our houses warm in winter period =)

Don't know about submarines parts much but maybe in USSR it was true. Today i doubts.


Evil D, absolutely agree and will try avoid politics as much as it possible.

[w3tnz]

Parhelion thanks for sharing your views, I have been following the situation with great interest, the political games in Ukraine over the past few years have been quite dramatic. Western media is generally portraying Russia as the key aggressor ready to take up arms and invade Ukraine, but it seems (thus far) they have only bolstered their defenses, against a interim government that seems very anti-Russian and willing to declare war at the drop of a hat. As far as I can see, from your story and un-biased media, Russia has every right to protect its people and interests in the region, until stability is returned.
Western insinuation that this is some sort of unfounded Russian occupation is nothing short of blatant hypocrisy and fear mongering.

Stay safe over there.

[LC Kid]

Hi Mr Parhelion!


And Thanx Much for your detailed report.

I specially want to rise the importance of your historic overview, it was very detailed and accurate. :) I've always thought the only way to understand what's going on requires to know the historical facts behind the news.

Stay safe and gather as much as you can to avoid any absence of essentials.

And of course, watch your back.

[Parhelion]

Thanks guys for you support. You are really the best community i know.

Ok if you don`t mind i can describe what is going on now.

- Looks like Russia bring some military forces up to boundaries with Ukraine. Mostly to the East side. But there still no regular army of Russia in Ukraine. It is more like moral help to those regions who stands against current pro-nazi powers in Kiev. And regions must stand for their rights without help of Russia. Russian troop is needed just in case of mass violence against locals. Probably there are may be some troops of Russia inside Crimea because of russian navy base there. But it like special forces and very limited count.
- Current government in Kiev trying to show everything like Russian intrusion is already happens. Also they proclaim that pro-russian propaganda is everywhere. They are very sad about last news from CNN and BBC. They says "we can trust no one, even CNN against us, propaganda everywhere". They says that russian medias using Gebbels methods. If you don`t know Gebbels is one on nazi icon and ideologist. By the way Kiev trying to block russian tv-channels, that cause many ukrainians watch only ukrainian news. Many elder people still have only TV-set and no internet.
- Tomorrow ukrainian singer Ruslana will give a speech at EU parliament. I believe once she wins Eurovision, but i`m not sure if this is a good reason to represent Ukraine by her at such high political event.
- As i sayd earlier Kiev proclaim total mobilisation of Ukrainian Army. Not many comes, about 1,5% but i don`t know if this info realistic. Under cover of mobilization nazi-fighters of Right Sector can be armed even more than they are armed now
- Also i see some information that around 300 mercenaries of Blackwater troops get to Kiev through airport Borispol. Also i can`t says if it is truth ir not. All we have is data from airport employee and video of very strange mercenaries on streets on Donetsk. Donetsk is one of the main city of the East. And second big heart of resistance after the Crimea.
- The fate of eastern regions is bother me more than anything else. People there can`t accept new nazi-government, but local politicians is corrupted and represents interests of oligarchs (moneybags) not people. This especially going on in Kharkiv, Donetsk and Odessa.
- Right Sector became real military power. They have a lot of guns, locals at the East have nothing. Also they can dress like ukrainian army. Police and army is still takes order from Kiev and will not defends locals of the East. I really worry about my brothers there.
- Why i call them nazi? I don`t know if should explain that. Now they not even hiding this. They use nazi symbolism (crossed N, swastika, celtic cross, 14/88 etc), honor ukrainian nazi of WW2, proclaim clearness of nation. And main catchword is "Honor to Ukraine - Honor to the Heroes!" Sounds ok right? But if you know history this catchword was created by Ukrainian Rebel Army who support nazi during WW2. Also this catchword was created as direct analog to famous nazi slogan "Hiel Hitler - Zieg hiel!" Also you should know that in 1943-44 Ukrainian Rebel Army killed about 30-80 thousand inocent peaceful people in Volyn region. Those people was mostly poland, jews, russians and ukrainians who was married with people of other nation.
- I hopes people of the East have enough strength to hold their rights. I really sorry i can`t join them today.

[UpDok]

Parhelion,
The current acting Ukraine President Oleksandr Turchynov sounds like a particularly interesting man. He is known for abstaining from tobacco & alcohol and is an elder and lay preacher at a Kiev church. He may even be a Ukrainian version of America’s Mike Huckabee; a Baptist preacher who ran for President of the USA in 2008. Huckabee didn’t win the Presidency despite being a good friend of the martial artist Chuck Norris

Seriously though, The situation facing the Ukraine appears bleak indeed. It would be as good a time as any to turn to God. I can assure here are a lot of Americans praying for your country. Sometimes things seem very bad right before they get better.

[Revival]

Thank you for you report and your insight. Please be safe during this tough time.

[defenestrate]

I think in 6th grade (late 80s) I was told that the Ukraine was called the breadbasket of the world, at least in the eastern hemisphere.