So I joined a new forum and while there...

[xceptnl]

Waiting...
....time will tell. Welcome to the forums. Please exercise a higher level of regard here in relation to what you KNOW and what you THINK. Thanks for joining and I can share this pearl of wisdom.... read much before you post. It is likely that the subject has been discussed before. I hope your time here is a pleasant one for all parties.

[enduraguy]

Love those internet "operators" they're so common these days.

[Donut]

I would like to see pictures.

The toxicity of some people's sweat will rust some metals more than other people's sweat.


In my opinion, with Spyderco you are paying a reasonable price for a higher quality knife and "good" customer service. If you would rather pay more for a lower quality knife and a no questions asked warranty, then that can be a good choice. I've had excellent experience with other brands customer service.

There are some people that I believe should be paying extra money for a lower quality product and better customer service, because that is what their priorities need. I've seen people argue that Cold Steel offers better value than Spyderco. They think buying AUS-8 for $60 is better than paying $70 for CPM-S30V. After watching the value of MSRP, street price, and secondary market knives over the past few years, this seems like an odd opinion.


I've had a runaround or two with Spyderco warranty, but I think the quality of most of their knives makes it worth the one or two issues I've seen. My issues were mainly along the lines of the quality seeming totally off, me sending it in and being told that it's within spec. It has steered me away from some models. I've had random rust on one of my 8Cr knives, some staining on S30V, I'm learning a lot about rust and corrosion from Super Blue.

[ugaarguy]

xcepptnl, thank you for being open minded and extending a cordial welcome.

Donut, I'll post pictures this evening (it may be late, but I'll get them up). Your comment on individual body chemistry and variances in corrosive properties of perspiration between individuals is absolutely spot on. It's discussed at length on several gun forums over the years and, IIRC, there's been at least one dermatologist who's posted in the past confirming it. That's why the corrosion between the liner and the scale on the Chap ticked me off so much. I probably have corrosive sweat, plus I live in a very hot and humid region. So, I know I need to protect my tools from corrosion, but I void my warranty if I take the proper measures to do so. I'm trapped in a damned if I do, darned if I don't with the warranty.

As far as paying the more for a lower quality product (or paying the same for a lower quality product, or more for an equal quality product) with a better warranty I would have agreed with you while I was on active duty. Now, however, my knives don't really see hard use unless I'm doing it for a review or testing, or just for assurance for all the what-if scenarios.

As far as the warranty run around with Spyderco thank you for being honest and admitting you've experienced the same thing. That's part of my frustration: Why give the customer the run around and make him or her jump through hoops and anger the customer in the process when you're going to fix the knife anyway? Why not just fix the knife without the hassle and keep the customer happy?

[Donut]

I think a lot of it is just business. Here are two hypothetical questions. If I'm the owner of a company, how much money do I want to spend on warranty? If I have 10 employees, can I afford to have 9 doing work and have 1 spend 100% of their time doing customer service? How you answer those questions will affect the price of your products and affect how productive your entire company is (well, a percentage of it).

There are some companies out there charging you for two knives, with profit, to give you that no questions asked warranty. Would you be ok with spending double or 50% more than what you did on the Chaparral just so they can send you a new one when you had issues with it?


I saw a thread on USN, where someone tested 7 different products to see which one protected against corrosion the most. Breakfree CLP stood out from the group.

[ugaarguy]

Pics are posted over on THR - http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php ... stcount=50. I'm not going to upload them here and eat the bandwidth.

Would you be ok with spending double or 50% more than what you did on the Chaparral just so they can send you a new one when you had issues with it?

First, let me be clear that my issue with the Chaparral is not getting it fixed. My issue is that performing on it the proper preventive maintenance required in a hot, humid climate voids the warranty.

To directly answer the question, I'm okay spending 25% more to ensure there won't be problems. That 25% number (give or take a few %) is the current premium of an RSK Mk1 Ritter-Pardue Griptilian over a PM2. That's currently the premium of a standard full size Griptilian over a Manix 2 LW. It's also the premium of the Benchmade 531 Pardue over the Chaparral. However, I prefer Spyderco's designs. So, really, I'd rather pay a little more for Spyderco to modify their designs to make them user serviceable, or improve the internal finish so that I don't have to service them.

[Tally-ho]

Corrosion is the reason why I don't like pinned construction with liners...but the caly 3 and/or caly 3.5 are so awesome in hand, it's hard to resist and to not like it.

[Revival]

I saw a thread on USN, where someone tested 7 different products to see which one protected against corrosion the most. Breakfree CLP stood out from the group.

Out of curiosity, what were the other 6 products?

[The Deacon]

To directly answer the question, I'm okay spending 25% more to ensure there won't be problems.

You may be. However, given the number who complain about current prices, I'd be inclined to think a lot of other folks may not. Especially when you consider how little extra protection it actually buys you. I would estimate that somewhere around 90% of all legitimate warranty issues with Spyderco knives are either cosmetic issues that get noticed the first time you take the knife out of the box or mechanical issues that get noticed the first time you open and close it. If the knife looks acceptable and works properly when you first get it, it will almost certainly continue to, so you're not risking much by voiding the warranty.

[bh49]

The toxicity of some people's sweat will rust some metals more than other people's sweat

+1
I was quite shocked, when I witnessed this myself. The company I am working for is contract manufacturer. We had one operator who was leaving rusted finger prints on parts out of carbon steel just by touching them.

I think a lot of it is just business. Here are two hypothetical questions. If I'm the owner of a company, how much money do I want to spend on warranty?

And I am very happy that, when I am buying my knives I do not have to pay for "free" repair of broken tip, lost clips and so on.

Pics are posted over on THR - http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php ... stcount=50. I'm not going to upload them here and eat the bandwidth.

Sorry, I cannot see the pictures. It looks like I have to join the forum and log-in in thy order to see them.
From my personal experience. I live on east coast and we experiencing humid weather fairly often. I never had rust or staining on my knives, but I always clean blades, if I cut anything acidic before I close the knife.
Regarding current Golden production. IMHO it is better than ever. Within last few years I have much more satisfaction with Golden made knives than with Japanese made. Workmanship is outstanding. Just this month I received Ti Fluted Military and KW Manix XL. I cannot imagine better F&F. I carry and use on regular basis three Native5s. Two of them pre-owned. There were no issues with any of them. This doesn't mean that cannot be issues with any of Golden knives. Everything is possible. I just sharing my experience. During last couple years I purchased: 4 Military, 5 paras2, 1 manix2, 1 M2 LW, 3 Dodos, Ti UKPK, 5 Natives5 and received Ti Fluted Native5 as the gift from my forum friend. I am happy with all of them.

[Donut]

Out of curiosity, what were the other 6 products?

Here is an edit of his post. It's a sticky in the knife care and maintenance section.

The contenders:

WD40
Militec-1
Weaponshield
Tuf-Glide/Tuf-Cloth
Breakfree CLP (pretty much the gold standard)
Blue Wonder Disotec XFR
Blue Wonder Armadillo (a wax-type product that is rubbed on and the excess buffed off)



The test medium:
hot-rolled steel flat bar that I bought at Lowe's, cut with my Dremel into smaller plates
a 2x4 that I cut slots into for the plates to fit in.

The methodology:
I cleaned the plates with some Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner which is amazing at getting stuff off of metal. I used the Gun Cleaner and 400grit wet/dry sandpaper to make the surface as even as I could and remove any surface rust. I wiped that junk off and then cleaned with acetone, followed by denatured alcohol (acetone will leave a residue, believe it or not). I now had chemically clean plates with no residual stuff on them.

[Donut]

First, let me be clear that my issue with the Chaparral is not getting it fixed. My issue is that performing on it the proper preventive maintenance required in a hot, humid climate voids the warranty.

To directly answer the question, I'm okay spending 25% more to ensure there won't be problems. That 25% number (give or take a few %) is the current premium of an RSK Mk1 Ritter-Pardue Griptilian over a PM2. That's currently the premium of a standard full size Griptilian over a Manix 2 LW. It's also the premium of the Benchmade 531 Pardue over the Chaparral. However, I prefer Spyderco's designs. So, really, I'd rather pay a little more for Spyderco to modify their designs to make them user serviceable, or improve the internal finish so that I don't have to service them.

Alright. My opinion would be that anywhere that will rust from sweat should be an area that "should" be easily reached to treat for rust. I would like to hear Spyderco's opinion on this! I know that I've heard from people who live in Hawaii that EVERYTHING rusts there. I live a few miles from the ocean and I haven't had any serious corrosion issues, even with Super Blue, which stains like crazy.

As far as the premiums go, 154cm is typically considered a bargain steel (though somewhat close in price) when compared to CPM S30V, though I haven't seen any serious head to head testing with them. I suppose the Manix 2 would be a good candidate since it was produced with the same blade shape in both materials. Ankerson has 154cm one category lower than S30V at similar hardness. Maybe I need to search around for a good test.


I'll sign up for THR today, do you mind if I rehost your images so I can post them to be more easily viewable on here?

[Donut]

I saw you mention in another thread that you think you are not well liked. I don't agree.

I think all input, good and bad, are good. Input about bad experiences will help Spyderco probably more than input about good experiences. If you had a forum and everyone constantly praised everything, how could you use that to better your products or company?

This thread has good information, good ideas. I don't think your opinion is wrong. Everyone's opinion is a valid one, even if we don't agree.

It's always nice to see opinions of people with a different vantage point than mine.

[Ferris Wheels]

Here is another great corrosion test performed on a firearms website:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... -products/

[Monocrom]

While I was there I found a thread warning people about Spyderco.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=742658

Looks like you found a forum not to waste your time at.

[ugaarguy]

Deleted by my better judgement.

[Noah]

I love Spyderco Forums and THR. The 2 most high class forums on the 'net, in my opinion. No forum war, please? That would just be awkward. :eek: