Can our children write?

[jackknifeh]

I wanted to write a note and mail it yesterday. I was surprised to find it a little difficult to write (not print) what I wanted to say. I gave it some thought and remember when I was working most of what I wrote on paper was printing, not writing in cursive. Is "cursive" the correct spelling? I don't remember EVER writing that word. :) I attribute this lack of practice largely due to computers being the dominant method of written communication in the past several years. So, I am wondering what skills our children are being taught in elementary schools. I won't care about this for a couple of years until my grandson starts school but then I will care.

Those of you who have children in grammer school (grades 1-4 or so), can you describe this to me? Grandparents also. My grandson is 3 1/2 years old and is very proficient on the computer. He plays A LOT of games, plays his songs (and knows how to find them in his favorites/bookmarks). He knows all the letters but can't read words. He does recognize the title of songs he likes though. He knows the difference between "OK" and "CANCEL" and what clicking on one or the other means. That is just touching the surface. I was concerned about him spending so much time in front of the monitor instead of playing with his toys at first. Now I don't mind because the computer is a tool now that almost everyone uses and it will be even more so as time goes on. He does play with his toys also. So are kids learning to type in addition to being proficient at writing? I have become very weak in my writing skill which I consider the same as driving. You just do it without really thinking about it. Yesterday I had to actually think about it. :confused: :) This is a huge change in what skills are needed by our children that seems obvious to me.

Any info on what the kids are being taught these days is appreciated.

[Minibear453]

Well, I'm not sure if it's readable... I'll type it all up if you want.

[jackknifeh]

Minibear. I can't state how much I like your reply. :D :D :D To answer the question with action is top shelf IMO. I congratulate you. If people can write as well as you do when they are in high school I believe we still have a future as Americans. :D I am relieved.


Jack

PS
I now know what the problem was with my writing. I was using a bic. :) The type of ink was blue. :D

[Evil D]

To my knowledge schools don't even teach cursive writing anymore. My son is 10 and will be in 5th grade this year and still has not learned a single bit of it. I guess the future is typing and text and the written word is a dying art. They did go over print of course, and he has a chart that shows all the alphabet in cursive, but they've never pushed to make the kids write in cursive. I'm not even sure if he knows how to sign his name in cursive.

[D1omedes]

I just finished my first year as a public school teacher (high school) and can confirm that kids are not really taught how to write cursive anymore. I consider myself relatively young (26) but I do remember learning cursive till about fifth grade. After that, teachers told us that if we wrote clearly then they did not care whether we used print or cursive. Most of us, myself included, stuck to print. I guess that happened nationwide and most schools decided to stop teaching cursive.

I do have a problem with that, however. We now have kids who are becoming adults who cannot sign their name. I think this is really sad and embarrassing. Imagine going to the bank or being handed a contract and not being able to sign your own name?

I guess if elementary and grade schools have more important curriculum to institute that would fine. But at least teach kids how to sign their names. Oh, and get back on grammar. Kids' writing, at a high school level, is atrocious. There's this obsession with math, science and technology and we have produced people who cannot convey themselves on paper. Shame.

[Bladekeeper]

Not to critique the us system but in the uk its not like this .
Obviously there's a progressive change than 10-15 years ago and the job market reflects the need for this .
But one example ill give I took a course for computer programming this was java or some coding .
I can't exactly recall it ended bitterly and was over 10 years ago now so apologies .
But we always programmed any mathematical problems in after checking on calculators .
Or using the computers , I passed all the course at the end a mathematic exam was required and no calculators used I failed badly .
I feel this was unfair and really quite poorly constructed in the way it was taught if we had manual math lesson first then fair enough.
Anyway my youngest daughter is taking the exam set for 16 year olds at age 10 in English in sep .
So obviously it is still working and needed to develop in education IMO .

But in fairness I think the letter is becoming redundant I mean how often do you write anymore .
Christmas and birthday cards ?.
I have contact with a group of friends in a remote area of the world .
Every year they make a journey to remember a passed relative .
I can't make it and I check in with them via email before they get to parts that has no signal .
These are people that spend months at a time in deep rainforest using solar powered charging equipment and Internet dongles and phones.
A letter is nice and personal and have encouraged some of my kids to have pen pals .
I say some the others have learning difficulties and struggle and some just use Internet although I have restricted Internet usage .
I won't let as a lot of parents do my 10 year old a phone or use the net unsupervised .
Too many perverts sad but true a bit ot though .

[jackknifeh]

I just finished my first year as a public school teacher (high school) and can confirm that kids are not really taught how to write cursive anymore. I consider myself relatively young (26) but I do remember learning cursive till about fifth grade. After that, teachers told us that if we wrote clearly then they did not care whether we used print or cursive. Most of us, myself included, stuck to print. I guess that happened nationwide and most schools decided to stop teaching cursive.

I do have a problem with that, however. We now have kids who are becoming adults who cannot sign their name. I think this is really sad and embarrassing. Imagine going to the bank or being handed a contract and not being able to sign your own name?

I guess if elementary and grade schools have more important curriculum to institute that would fine. But at least teach kids how to sign their names. Oh, and get back on grammar. Kids' writing, at a high school level, is atrocious. There's this obsession with math, science and technology and we have produced people who cannot convey themselves on paper. Shame.

My father said the exact same thing many years ago about HS kids not being able to write well enough to even fill out a job application that most high school kids have. Fast food etc. My Dad was in the USMC for 22 years and retired as a Major after serving in both the Korean and Viet Nam conflicts. When he retired he went back to college so he could teach Industrial Arts (shop) in high school. Imagine someone who was used to the discipline of the Marine corps now teaching high school kids. :eek: On top of that he had two teenage sons (me and my brother) to deal with. He held it together though. Anyway, he said he was almost forced to pass kids who couldn't write very well sending kids into the world with a HS diploma who couldn't write. The theory was that kids who fail one year about half of them quit anyway before graduating. If they fail two years almost all of them quit. I imagine it would be hard to be 20 years old and still be a senior (or junior) in HS. This was in the 1980s about 60 miles south of DC. The theory was keep them in school and hope they mature enough to become motivated to learn. Personally, I think it may be feasable to let kids take a year (or two) off to work full time and get an idea of what it's like. For once they will know what it's like to actually need to be productive without a teacher telling them that everyone is special and can be president if they work hard. Motivation is good but can become rediculous. I'm getting off subject. My question has been answered. School has changed. So has the world so I shouldn't be surprised. The world is getting more electrical and technical. If we're not careful we'll be communicating on knife forums and such. :)

[Water Bug]

I have no children, but I am disappointed with the choice to drop cursive handwriting in grade schools just because the computer is supposedly "the way of the future." All it takes is a all-out computer/electrical failure and all you have left is paper and pencil, which A LOT of today's society have no idea what to do with it. THAT'S SAD!

And, I concur... if you don't know or cannot do cursive writitng, how are you supposed to hand-sign a document? And, don't give me this crap about digital signatures... I deal with digital signatures everyday and know full well that digital signatures are inappropriate for A LOT of official correspondences. Sometimes you HAVE TO HAVE THAT "WET SIGNATURE."

To lose one's original hand signature in favor of some stupid digital signature that some hacker can acquire is an insult to human originality. One's hand signature is unique and original to that person, yet the education system chooses to eliminate that originality in favor of computer-generated signatures.

My opinion is we're setting up today's youths for failure.

[D1omedes]

jack, I could only imagine the strength your father had to control his temper and deal with teenagers as a former Marine. I actually met a Marine vet who observed my class and wanted to become a teacher. The best advice I had for him was patience. I don't consider myself a hothead, but I have had to seriously check myself at times and now consciously almost enter a different mental zone when teaching.

The theory of passing kids along has maintained and even become worse. In TX, we can have students until they are 23 in public school. IMO, that is ridiculous. Who wants their teenagers sitting next to a grown adult? In addition, kids need to know that they can fail. If we coddle them, which is what we are really doing now, then they will fail in the real world. Teachers should never be out to fail students but if the students show no motivation or initiative then they need to know the repercussions.

I think our whole society has bred these rampant problems in the education system. We don't have the blue collar jobs for high school drop outs anymore, so they will resort to crime to afford the higher cost of living. Politicians just want them to keep them in the system as long as possible to keep crime rates low and brag about (false) graduation rates. Once those kids that have passed realize they are incapable of pushing themselves and achieving better things, the government steps in with public assistance and/or the penitentiary. It's a vicious cycle. And few parents in the lower demographics actually see this process and do their part to reinforce the correct views on their children.

People complain that the U.S. is increasingly becoming a society of the rich and poor. Education, I believe, is key in all of this. But of course, most people hated school and could care less about how important it really is. Arguing over wars and healthcare is more stimulating, I guess.

[jackknifeh]

I think we are born backwards. We should come into this world with maturaty and self motivation and get younger as we get older. :) I say this comically but I'll be completely honest when I say I'm more better ( :) ) at being a grandparent now than when I was a parent. This is HUGELY just my opinion but I think I have a better grasp on what is important than I did when I was in my early 20s. My grandson is just 3 1/2 years old so I may change my mind about my perceived competance as he gets older. When I see my son treating my grandson the same way I treated him I can't help but think "**** that's stupid". I don't say anything though. Seriously, just because I "think" I'm wiser doesn't mean it's so. It's just how I see things. Just because I "think" I'm always right doesn't mean anything. But, when I see that I'm wrong all I have to do is change my mind and guess what? I'm right again. :D

[Invective]

This is a few years old and from when I was still in college and taking notes by hand. I had to change to taking notes on my computer though as some of my professors talked way too fast for me to write down everything important and I can type a lot faster than I can handwrite things. I think right now my handwriting would be nigh illegible.

[Doc Dan]

I am an English prof teaching overseas. They do not teach cursive, here. In the US and UK many places have stopped teaching it as the teachers do not know how to write cursive. None of my students past or present know how to do this. The argument many are making is that with the advent of computers this style of writing is no longer relevant. I completely disagree.

I too, have found that the older I get, the worse my handwriting becomes. My father got to where his was not legible at all. It seems that with age many of us lose the fine motor skills necessary for beautiful cursive handwriting.

Jack, I would like to add this: when I walked out of high school in 1975 in disgust over the "new" method of education in which the teachers did not know as much as many of us students, a retired Marine Colonel was the only one who cared enough about me to take me aside and talk to me about what I would be facing in the real world. I never forgot him.

[shunsui]

I remember when I learned to write everyone told me my writing wasn't pretty. I figured if it was clear and legible that was good enough.

As for signatures, I worked at some jobs that had me checking signatures for awhile and it's amazing how many people just make a little mark or line on the page and call it their signature. There was some theory that it was somehow an advantage at one point, but it never made much sense to me.

[jackknifeh]

I remember when I learned to write everyone told me my writing wasn't pretty. I figured if it was clear and legible that was good enough.

As for signatures, I worked at some jobs that had me checking signatures for awhile and it's amazing how many people just make a little mark or line on the page and call it their signature. There was some theory that it was somehow an advantage at one point, but it never made much sense to me.

The military (AF) ruined my signature in one day. When I joined in 1979 I had been out of hs for going on 3 years and everyone knew how to write. Even the "worst" students had this skill. It wasn't art but it was elligable. I don't remember at what point during the first few days of military life but I sat there and signed my name MANY MANY times. After the first MANY times my signature had gotten to a first name and first initial of my last name and a wavey line. My signature never recovered completely.

After reading the replies I am surprised at how significant this writing skill has been ignored in school. I guess it's ok. When I was a senior I only wanted to take as few classes as I could to graduate and leave at lunch. So I took a typing class. First year at my hs with electric typwriters. :) I have used the skills learned in that class a lot. Still, it's hard to imagine a bunch of kids not learning to write clearly with half way accurate grammer. I'll admit mine is not the best. Grammer I mean. I do remember one thing as a senior that was shocking. We had 6 week grading periods. The last 12 weeks of english class all we did was memorize 4 lines at a time of a poem out of a book and recite them to the teacher. Then we had 4 points. When we had 70 points we had a D for that 6 weeks. 100 lines gave us an A. Once you had 100 points you started working on the next 6 week grading period. It took me 2 weeks to earn an A for the last 2 grading periods. I didn't have to do anything for 10 solid weeks. Even though I felt like it was an insult to my intellengence I didn't complain. :)

Jack

[dsvirsky]

Virginia requires third graders to be able to read and write cursive. My son just finished Kindergarten, so he hasn't faced this task, yet. Hopefully, he'll be better at it than I was. Personally, I quit using cursive just as soon as my teachers would let me get away with it, because my handwriting was terrible.

[TomAiello]

My daughter goes to a fairly conservative, traditional charter school. They teach all kinds of things that have been removed from the public school curriculum (like starting science and history at kindergarten instead of 5th grade). They don't teach cursive though, and I'm not worried about that.

The original purpose of cursive writing was to allow people to write faster. With the advent of computers, most young people (and some older people) can actually type faster than they can write. Given that and the prevalence of electronic communication, I think that typing is a much more important skill than cursive for success in the modern world.

I learned cursive in elementary school, and I think that was the last time I ever used it. I haven't needed it in the last 30 years. I'd much rather my kids learn practical skills than cursive. I can think of literally dozens of things that I'd prioritize ahead of cursive writing in their education. Things as varied as American history, auto mechanics, typing, first aid and carpentry all rank ahead of cursive in my list of educational priorities.

[Evil D]

The argument that computers and typing have made cursive obsolete is like saying computers have also made painting and guitars obsolete since art and music can also be made with computers.

[TomAiello]

The argument that computers and typing have made cursive obsolete is like saying computers have also made painting and guitars obsolete since art and music can also be made with computers.

I don't think that's true at all. Painting and guitars are art forms, and you can choose whether or not you want to enjoy them. The same is true of cursive writing (and calligraphy), horseback riding, and lots of other skills. They're kind of neat, sort of cool, and not really necessary to modern life.

[Minibear453]

I don't think that's true at all. Painting and guitars are art forms, and you can choose whether or not you want to enjoy them. The same is true of cursive writing (and calligraphy), horseback riding, and lots of other skills. They're kind of neat, sort of cool, and not really necessary to modern life.

I keep a diary (one of the manliest things you can do), and sometimes I worry about it. I write in cursive, so if cursive is being phased out, that means there's a possibility no one will read my diary. Although I doubt the value in the content of my diary, other important documents, such as the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights... pretty much every historic english document is written in cursive. In a way, it's still applicable, and in my opinion, important to at least teach a little bit. I barely had any cursive lessons in elementary school, yet it was sufficient that I could still read cursive. If it were up to me, everyone would be exposed to cursive so that they could at least read other people's writing. What happens if you get a job and your boss leaves you memo notes in cursive? Although I guess the counter argument is that no one would even leave paper notes, but I believe there are circumstances where it is necessary to read cursive.

[PMBohol]

I went to school in the early sixties. Ther are two things that kids are not graded on these days as I was back then. Penmanship and Deportment.

I can just sense a bunch of you googling the word deportment now.