California Dog Shooting-What an unfornate incident...

[chuck_roxas45]

deleted vid. Might be offensive.

[Donut]

That's terrible.

If a taser wouldn't kill the dog, that probably would have been better.

[chuck_roxas45]

My question is, couldn't have the cops let the owner loose for a bit to pacify and secure his dog? He had already shown his willingness to comply with the cops and he had opportunity to run early on.

[Pinetreebbs]

Sad and unnecessary. At the root of the problem, filming the police from the other end of the block should never be a problem for the police.

One other thought, it was the dog owners loud stereo that got the police attention, turn it down, not everybody appreciates being forced to heat your music.

[Jeremy_A_Neel]

Ugh.. glad I don't live in California...

[Kev83]

I saw the video this morning and its just a lose-lose situation. Very sad what happened to the dog. I don't truly know what reason the police were arresting the man for other than the filming them and possibly causing a scene or words exchanged between them. I understand that the police officer felt threatened and needed to defend himself but you can't help but think there could've been alternative methods to subdue the dog. Tragic...

[noseoil]

I still want to see the legal consequences from this one. Looks like a lot needs to be aired to figure out cause & effect. I'm wondering what the courts will decide.

[defenestrate]

Owner was negligent in not securing his dog in the car - and beat cops receive very little training in dealing with domesticated animals - this appears to be a systemic problem, and many officers get fearful too easily of dogs because of lack of exposure and training. Not the officers' fault necessarily but depts need to take responsibility for ensuring their officers get the best training available for all likely scenarios (and less likely scenarios when plausible as well - unfortunately, some of the information sources that are commonly used in many police departments are closer to gossip than to real news or evidence-based training methods. Many lines of work have this problem, but most of the workers in those lines are not put on the street with lethal weapons and more or less forced to make judgment calls that may only be as well-informed as training promotes. i have heard so much from folks in the LEO profession about poor or no training in things like CQC, restsraint of rowdy suspects as opposed to tasing/shooting/beating, safely identifying aggression in people and animals and how to handle it with as little injury as possible to all parties.

Many new officers have come from Iraq or Afghanistan and are used to training to deal with enemies and likely hostile persons rather than regular civilian countrymen. That training does not go away after watching a couple of training vids or at the academy. It's just not enough. Few sources of proper training and/or therapeutic means are available to all returning vets, but again, this is far more dangerous to the officers and to civilians and their pets because of the element of authorized lethal force.

[chuck_roxas45]

I'm thinking that the officer was just too eager to kill instead of trying to find an alternative solution.

[.357 mag]

I saw the video last night. It's really to bad for the dog. He had a dumb owner.

I've been in a situation like that where a dog came up to me like that and the outcome was different. I didn't have a way to defend myself and ended up with 75 stitches in the nose.

The problem is he didn't get to watch the video like we did before be shot the dog. The officer was there. None of us were. It's easy to look from the outside in and say "I'd do it different". Being in public service on a volunteer fire department for 15 years, I know the feeling of not know what to do. Sometimes you have to make a discision and go with it. Personally I think he made the right choice.

[Half Sack]

I'm thinking that the officer was just too eager to kill instead of trying to find an alternative solution.

I haven't watched the video only read comments in this thread, but Chuck's comment seems to reflect what I think happened here and in many other situations.

Police shooting/tasing/spraying suspects or in this case a dog, seem to come from a "apparent" lack of other options. I'm not ragging on the police (this time) but it seems the go to option are things like this. It seems there are a million videos of people being pepper sprayed or tased not because they deserve it but because its a less than lethal option to shooting them. The officers realize with these less than lethal options "I can't shoot them, I'll be in trouble" but the fail to try other options, like talking to the person, rather than barking orders.

No matter what the situation the result of these cases is the same, people are disappointed in the police for their actions, saddened by the results which in this case is a loss of life and overall doesn't increase faith or respect for officers in general.
I guess I semi ranted, sorry. :)

[The Mastiff]

Many new officers have come from Iraq or Afghanistan and are used to training to deal with enemies and likely hostile persons rather than regular civilian countrymen. That training does not go away after watching a couple of training vids or at the academy. It's just not enough. Few sources of proper training and/or therapeutic means are available to all returning vets, but again, this is far more dangerous to the officers and to civilians and their pets because of the element of authorized lethal force.

Many of the units that had reserve fill outs had serious problems with the reserves who were police at home. They quickly got the reputation of being too aggressive for even special ops units. Agressive and undisciplined to be honest. I can believe it from seeing what some police departments have turned into here in the states. They are paramilitary forces with armored vehicles, drones, air support, night vision and often make up their own laws such as the ones who arrest people filming them where there are no laws barring it.

I'm not anti LE. I used to be a cop in fact. It is what it is. They are better equipped than I was in the army during the cold war. I have met some extremely aggressive ones. They typically get weeded out but they can sure ruin peoples lives in the mean time. Too often cities go for the cover up due to liability awards against LE. The laws allowing confiscation of property to be used by that department is just asking for trouble too.

[Minibear453]

I saw the video and can't figure out why the man was arrested in the first place. Was it for filming? I'm not very up to date on state laws in that aspect, but as worst I was expecting the police officer to take the camera or something. Not arrest the bystander. And it's curious how the other person filming (the person who filmed this video), wasn't harassed by the officers. Maybe he was later, I'm not sure.

But in the case of the dog shooting, it's understandable, unfortunately. If there was a dog trying to bite me... well, no matter how valuable pets may be, I will always view them as less important than humans. It's cold, but if a dog were attacking me I wouldn't really hesitate.

[.357 mag]

I saw the video and can't figure out why the man was arrested in the first place. Was it for filming? I'm not very up to date on state laws in that aspect, but as worst I was expecting the police officer to take the camera or something. Not arrest the bystander. And it's curious how the other person filming (the person who filmed this video), wasn't harassed by the officers. Maybe he was later, I'm not sure.

But in the case of the dog shooting, it's understandable, unfortunately. If there was a dog trying to bite me... well, no matter how valuable pets may be, I will always view them as less important than humans. It's cold, but if a dog were attacking me I wouldn't really hesitate.

I don't know California law or wherever the video is from but here in Illinois it's illegal to film an police,fire,or EMS. It looks like in the video he was warned and still did it. I've been bit 2 by dogs that size but doesn't change my opinion on animal. Sometimes they just have stupid owners.

[noseoil]

It is not against the law to film, photograph or document any and all activities on a public street. If the person is asked to leave a crime scene and doesn't heed the officer's request, he can be cited for non-compliance. If the person is on public property, not in violation of barricades or other protective barriers, then the rights are with the civilian to document anything he wishes to. If you are interested, here's the way it works.
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tu ... ights.html

[Pinetreebbs]

If the dog had been another human associated with the man they were interested in, for their safety, the police would have secured him before dealing with the suspect. It would be the same if the suspect had a weapon, they would made secured it before dealing with the suspect. Seams like it should have been the same way with the dog, especially a large and powerful on like a Rottweiler. They could have had the suspect close the windows or secure the leash to the car, it's not like he was putting up any resistance.

Background Information:

The officers fired four shots, said Michael Gulden, an attorney for Rosby. Video footage shot by a witness and posted on YouTube shows the dog writhing on the pavement as onlookers shriek.

Gulden told The Times that police were retaliating against Rosby for a lawsuit filed in March against the department, alleging excessive use of force and false imprisonment in a July 2012 incident.

According to the lawsuit’s complaint, officers beat Rosby at his home and in jail after responding to a domestic quarrel call made by Rosby’s wife.

All charges against Rosby, 52, stemming from last year’s incident were dropped, Gulden said, calling the argument between the couple that prompted the call a "misunderstanding."

Gulden said one of the officers at Sunday’s incident in Hawthorne had been on duty during Rosby’s alleged beating last year and recognized him as a “troublemaker.”

Rosby was released Monday and has not been formally charged. Police have not yet returned his cellphone, Gulden said, adding that police claims that he was obstructing the investigation scene are “ridiculous.”

“There were many people doing the same thing,” said Gulden.

The controversy surrounds a video posted on YouTube showing a confrontation Sunday afternoon between police and Leon Rosby at 137th Street and Jefferson Avenue.

Officials and witnesses said Rosby, 52, stopped at the corner to shoot video of a police standoff. He brought along his 2-year-old Rottweiler, Max.

He put the dog on a leash and began taking pictures. Hawthorne police said Rosby's actions interfered with their work and arrested him.

At that point, Max was in the backseat of Rosby's car. The dog began barking, jumped out of the car and lunged at officers.

One of the officers then drew a gun and fired four times. Dozens of residents watched the shooting, with some shrieking and moaning, as seen in a video that went viral on the Internet this week.

The incident sparked outrage, leading to the threats directed at the Hawthorne Police Department and Swain, officials said. The video of the Sunday shooting posted on YouTube has received more than 1 million views....

Rosby, an ordained minister now working as a licensed contractor, said he was getting images of the crime scene to protect the civil rights of those under investigation by police. When officers questioned him, he said, he asserted his right to record.

Swain said in a statement that Rosby was walking too close to law enforcement officers with Max, who weighed 80 pounds. The music coming from his car was a distraction, authorities said, and created a "dangerous situation" at the crime scene.

In an interview, Swain would not pass judgment on the shooting.

"I'm not saying it's justified, but even when it's justified, there are some learning points," he said. "Could we have done anything different? We'll look at all those facts."

[Bladekeeper]

I haven't watched the video only read comments in this thread, but Chuck's comment seems to reflect what I think happened here and in many other situations.

Police shooting/tasing/spraying suspects or in this case a dog, seem to come from a "apparent" lack of other options. I'm not ragging on the police (this time) but it seems the go to option are things like this. It seems there are a million videos of people being pepper sprayed or tased not because they deserve it but because its a less than lethal option to shooting them. The officers realize with these less than lethal options "I can't shoot them, I'll be in trouble" but the fail to try other options, like talking to the person, rather than barking orders.

No matter what the situation the result of these cases is the same, people are disappointed in the police for their actions, saddened by the results which in this case is a loss of life and overall doesn't increase faith or respect for officers in general.
I guess I semi ranted, sorry. :)

As far as I know a dogs tolerance to electric shocks is far lower than a humans.
A taser would likely kill it too I have heard from dog owners in the USA as I was involved in a website in the states.
That often when a raid is carried out the entry teams will shoot a dog on sight .
To me this is criminal , if they are raiding the house they likely would have carried out some surveillance .
If the owner is a criminal ok he is being raided but its not the dogs fault .
If they take a dog warden with them then secure the dog in the instance a dog attacks .
Which a lot would as they are having their territory broken into .
Then ok I understand its not always as simple there are too many variables .
But in my experience of knowing soldiers who have worked in Afghanistan etc they often work with dogs.
Their unit often adopts stray pups into the base whilst on your to give the guys morale .
I think the soldier point is a bit mis stated but understand that a lot of guys come back from heavy combat situ .
And go into police roles without ever having been assessed or given proper support to re adjust and deal with what they have been through.
Admitting you've been scarred by combat seems to be a shameful thing in the services and stigma attached .
But that's a whole other topic IMO this is wrong the owner should've been allowed to hold the dog until a warden came .
Or called a friend etc here in the uk if somebody is arrested whilst having a dog the police often call the warden .
Not every situation is the same I just feel that the police have got this wrong just my humble opinion .

[The Student]

I think the lesson here is you need to pick your battles wisely. I can't see why the man was really even arrested, but he didn't comply with officers and it seems in the video they gave him a chance. He could have simply got in his car and left, his choice to confront the police after he put the dog in the car, was not the best decision obviously. Where the police in the wrong for arresting him in the first place, maybe but I wasn't there and don't know the situation fully. Was the man wrong for challenging police at an active crime scene, maybe. At the end of the day it is an unfortunate situation with an unfortunate outcome, but one that could have been totally avoided with some simple courtesy.

[Gunslinger]

I've seen a police video when the Police were arresting a man (who was totally compliant) They shot his three dogs and one was in a kennel. The other two were just barking.

[chuck_roxas45]

I've seen a police video when the Police were arresting a man (who was totally compliant) They shot his three dogs and one was in a kennel. The other two were just barking.

It's sometimes just the badge that separates the cops from the criminals...