What grit Stones?

[buzzanr]

hey guys,
I'm kind of new at this whole knife game and recently I a set of Arkansas stones that go up to 1000 grit...is that enough or what?...Also, I don't really know to much about sharpening in general so any help there would be great too.
Thanks guys

[razorsharp]

They should do fine - arkansas stones ate a bit harder to get scary edges on compared to some materials but when you get your technique down, you'll have some scary hair popping edges :D

[JD Spydo]

Well "buzzanr" I don't mean to pop your bubble but the Arkansas Stones for the most part with the exception of the very hardest and most fine grade are pretty much obsolete by today's standards. Your Arkansas Stones are made of a mineral/rock known as "novaculite".

When you look at "novaculite" on the "Moh's Hardness Scale" they are way down the chart compared to the modern high alumina ceramic stones like the ones that Spyderco uses. They are also very slow to work with compared to diamond stones and ceramic stones.

I personally have one Arkansas Stone left in my line up of stones. It is called the "blue-black" ultra-fine grade and I was told by a guy who used to work for one of the mining companies that extremely high grade "novaculite" was mined out years ago. The really good grades of novaculite is also extremely hard to find and hasn't been available commercially in years.

If you are serious about sharpening I would definitely take a look at Spyderco's superior grade ceramic stones. And I would also take serious look at high grade diamond stones like Norton, 3M, or DMT.

You must also take into consideration that years ago the blade steels that people had in knives was not nearly as hard and not nearly the superalloys we are dealing with now a days. Therefore most of your Arkansas stones don't hold a candle to the newer stuff that's out there.

The only thing I use my "blue-black" novaculite stone for is final finishing. I pretty much use it like a strop more or less. I haven't used any novaculite stones for serious blade maintenance in years. Even the coarse aluminum oxide stones cut way faster than the Arkansas stones do. check it out for yourself, check out these materials on the Moh's Hardness Scale.

like I said I hate to be the one to bear bad news but I would rather you know the truth and learn the premium methods of sharpening.

[jzmtl]

I'm not familiar with how arkansas stone translate into grit, but a lansky hard arkansas will put a nice edge on kitchen knives. They however aren't hard enough to remove material quickly on modern hard steels, so if you are new to this use a soft steel to practice on or you'll be frustrated quickly.

[JD Spydo]

I'm not familiar with how arkansas stone translate into grit, but a lansky hard arkansas will put a nice edge on kitchen knives. They however aren't hard enough to remove material quickly on modern hard steels, so if you are new to this use a soft steel to practice on or you'll be frustrated quickly.

And "jzmtl" do keep in mind that most of the kitchen knives people own are made of older and fairly soft steel compared to the superalloys we have today. The stainless blades on some of my deceased parents old kitchen knives are made of a stainless that machines and grinds like chewing gun when working with them.

And again I do reiterate that these modern, superalloy steels ( stainless and high carbon) are so hard that diamond and high alumina ceramic are 2 of the only materials that can abrade these newer steels at a good rate.

You are right saying that some of these novaculite stones do a fair job of finishing work on a blade that is already somewhat sharp. But most novaculite stones are so slow removing the necessary stock to sharpen a blade that you would easily spend five to seven times as much work reprofiling a blade than you would with ceramic or diamond.

[jzmtl]

That's pretty much what I said in the second sentence. :p

[GCG199]

Yes, I have to agree with much of the above regarding using diamond and ceramic stones over the traditional Arkansas stones.

Most of the modern-day steels are pushing higher Rockwell hardness is why.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Grits, regardless of the stone type you wish to used should follow some sort of progression, something like 220, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 3000, and 6,000 (higher grits from Japanese Whet stones as an example)...That being said I have takin dull knives of poor quality steel that won't cut anything and sharpened them on Ciderblocks and then on Builders Bricks, Stroped on Leather with some diamond paste, and I get a pretty **** sharp working blade......cept for the diamond paste all done with grits probably less than 400.......Doc :)

[JD Spydo]

Grits, regardless of the stone type you wish to used should follow some sort of progression, something like 220, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 3000, and 6,000 (higher grits from Japanese Whet stones as an example)...That being said I have takin dull knives of poor quality steel that won't cut anything and sharpened them on Ciderblocks and then on Builders Bricks, Stroped on Leather with some diamond paste, and I get a pretty **** sharp working blade......cept for the diamond paste all done with grits probably less than 400.......Doc :)

That's interesting that you would mention using all of those old, archaic materials to sharpen with>> a very good friend of mine about 3 years ago showed how he got almost straight razor sharp results using the bottom of a porcelain jug>> he also used the bottom of an old ceramic crock pot and got great results from both them. Then he would use a huge SEars Craftsman Phillips screwdriver shaft like a makeshift sharpening steel and it worked great also.

I've also heard of a lot guys using Paver Bricks made from really dense Georgia Red Clay and got great results that way. I've always been a bit disappointed with a lot of these survival shows because only one of them ever showed any primitive sharpening method that I thought might actually work well. I've also heard that the rock/mineral obsidian ( a material Native Americans used for arrowheads and such) is a great abrasive to put a polished edge on a blade.

It really blew my mind when I discovered how far down the scale "novaculite" (Arkansas Stones) was. Most of the time I've seen it listed on any of the Moh's Hardness Scales it only rates about 6 to 6.5 at best. That really blew me away because at one time I myself used to swear by Arkansas Stones. And like I say I still use one of the super hard/super fine novaculite stones for fine finishing. But I haven't used an Arkansas stone for a major sharpening job in almost 12 years or so. Like I said before all of the woodworkers and other craftsmen that used to rely on Arkansas stones will tell you that all of the good high grade novaculite was mined out completely years ago unfortunately.

[Kev-Man]

Hey Buzzanr,

Everyone's gotta start from somewhere. I have to agree with the advice of the other guys. I think you can learn technique and patience using what you have, but as JD Spydo said there are alot better equipment out there. Holding a consistent angle is the key in getting a good edge bevel, it takes practice. Like jzmtl said if you practice on a knife with softer steel you will see results faster and not get fustrated and think you might be doing something wrong.

I'm not familiar with Arkansas stones so I'm not sure how the grit compares to the water stones I use but going to a 1000 grit (around 15 microns) will give you a good working edge.

There are many ways to go about sharpening. For example I sharpen holding the knife in my right hand. Some people shift the knife between hands so you are always seeing the distance between the spine and the stone to gauge their angle. Try looking on youtube for some videos. Someone had a pretty good one of Dave Martell. You really have to experiment what works best for you. You might have to buy different stones or diamond plates to see what feels best for you. The Spyderco Ceramics are great stones but I find them too hard for me.

I gave my friend a Beston 500 and a King 1200 a pretty good combo but the two stones feel very different. The Beston is a pretty hard stone and the King is soft. As Doc said its good to follow some kind of stone progression. I usually the double the grit rule. (500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000, loaded strop) unless your edge is totally trashed usually a 500 grit will be plenty abbrasive enough.

Try some experimentation and do some research. A lot of info out there on the web. Let us know how it going or if you got any questions. If memory serves me (sometimes it doesn't) I think there were a few posts on the forums about sharpening that were pretty good.

Kev.

[JD Spydo]

Hey Buzzanr our good brother Kev Man just gave you some great advice on learning with what you got until you can swing some of the newer/better equipment. Also you might want to look up the threads on using the "Sharpie" or any magic marker or felt marking pen. You paint up the edge about an 1/8 of an inch so that when you stroke your blade across the stone you can see where exactly you are making contact. It's so easy to think that you are making contact with the edge itself but when you use this method you'll be surprised at how many times you might be just a little bit back away from the very edge. It is a really handy little trick to help you stay working on the edge itself. Also it wouldn't hurt to invest in a 10X to 12X jeweler's loupe or a very high power magnifying glass. It will help you to see more accurately where you are abrading the metal and at what angle. The jeweler's loupe improved my skills almost immediately when I got a good one.

The jeweler's loupe I have is a variable power 10X by 17X Bausch & Lomb that I got at a Machine tool distributor. Then later on you can learn about all the different types of stones and devices like the Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker which I believe is a tool that no knife owner/user should be without. You can later on learn about stropping to put a very fine edge and steeling. There is a lot of valuable sharpening information here on this great forum and over at bladeforums.com which is a forum that many of these guys also are members of. But do check out some of Spyderco's great sharpening tools on this website. Also there is one great sharpening book which is excellent for beginners. It is entitled "The Razor Edge Book Of Sharpening" by John Juranitch. It really made me aware of a lot of mistakes I was making early on. You are among friends here and this is a great place to pick up some valuable learning tips on Sharpening.