People who claim having military awards that don't.
Yep, but I've been involved in that conversation before... evidently, everyone is supposed to ignore his lies because he is such a nice guy. Everyone else, send to prison :p .rosconey wrote:didnt strider make some false claims about service?
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
- Theodore Roosevelt
"I twisted the knife until I heard his heart-strings sing."
- Jim Bowie concerning Maj. Norris Wright
- Theodore Roosevelt
"I twisted the knife until I heard his heart-strings sing."
- Jim Bowie concerning Maj. Norris Wright
I've known quite a few guys who have "been there and done that" from Nam thru the Gulf wars. You had to know them pretty darn well to even get them to discuss the subject at all. "strong silent type", definitely. And normally humble to a fault.Blerv wrote: Hope you didnt take that as an assumption that all vets are looking for something for free. I have friends and family members who are and as you said they typicially are the strong silent type. True hero's don't typicially pat their own backs unlike these fakers.
Major clue you are most likely dealing with a fraud is when he manages to drop his military "credentials" into the conversation in the first few minutes.
Spark (owner of Bladeforums) got a bit tired of all the squabbling over this and some time ago devoted a multi-part thread to the subject. He put everything he had been able to find (and its a LOT of info) into one spot.rosconey wrote:didnt strider make some false claims about service?
Do a search over there and you should be able to find it. Or drop me a note and I'll hunt up the link. Makes for interesting reading.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... ame-Over!?rosconey wrote:didnt strider make some false claims about service?
Start a pot of coffee, and enjoy!
This isn't a situation where a significant lady in your life asks, "Do I look _____?"
This is a situation where by some reason someone decided to lie about his/her employment history. Further that this history was involving the government's secrets, funds, and the various intel/training received. The penalties for defying government orders, as real military, are grave. Court-martial, capital punishment (treason), life in prison, and so-on. The supreme court doesn't call you a jerk for Punk'd-ing them like Ashton Kutcher.
If I was in a situation where there was a good chance I would have to lie about being in the military (:confused :) to avoid a life threatening situation I guess the view would be different. This type of manipulation of the truth is WAY out in left-field and is either a psychotic ploy for attention or capitalistic gain. Being treated like a government employee for pretending to be one seems fair.
I understand the common thread to doubt, fight, and scoff at the legal system. Most of the time they make it pretty easy. I just don't see why we are fighting so hard to save the burnt crust at the bottom of the cafeteria tray. Even most convicted criminals are not dumb enough to impersonate cops and government officials...and they rob 7-11's.
My babbling seems to be repeating. No intent to "win" this one :) . Just thinking through it myself.
This is a situation where by some reason someone decided to lie about his/her employment history. Further that this history was involving the government's secrets, funds, and the various intel/training received. The penalties for defying government orders, as real military, are grave. Court-martial, capital punishment (treason), life in prison, and so-on. The supreme court doesn't call you a jerk for Punk'd-ing them like Ashton Kutcher.
If I was in a situation where there was a good chance I would have to lie about being in the military (:confused :) to avoid a life threatening situation I guess the view would be different. This type of manipulation of the truth is WAY out in left-field and is either a psychotic ploy for attention or capitalistic gain. Being treated like a government employee for pretending to be one seems fair.
I understand the common thread to doubt, fight, and scoff at the legal system. Most of the time they make it pretty easy. I just don't see why we are fighting so hard to save the burnt crust at the bottom of the cafeteria tray. Even most convicted criminals are not dumb enough to impersonate cops and government officials...and they rob 7-11's.
My babbling seems to be repeating. No intent to "win" this one :) . Just thinking through it myself.
If you lie about military service to get a job, the suitable punishment is being fired and blacklisted... not jailed. If you lie about it as a cry for attention, the suitable punishment is negative attention, ridicule, and exclusion... not arrest. If you lie to get money (or stuff) from veteran's agencies/associations, charities, companies, government organizations or individuals... the appropriate punishment IS arrest. Fortunately, the last one has always been against the law. No need to introduce frivolous feel-good legislation to strengthen it... particularly when said legislation is remarkably open to abuse. Even the first could already get you jail time in some cases (if your lies endangered lives, infrastructure, or assets) long before the SVA was introduced. I think perhaps we agree more than we disagree Blerv... people who lie in a criminal manner deserve to be punished as criminals, no doubt about it. However, I can't see abridging people's right to free speech (even when that speech is lies about military service or the nature of their military service) as an acceptable use of government apparatus. Ultimately, that is why the SVA was done away with in the first place... and why in this latest appeal I hope it fails again. If not for being unconstitutional, then for being unenforceable. If the number of Walts populating the bar scene of El Paso is any indication, we'd have to build a few thousand prisons for all the new "criminals" the SVA makes.
The argument that liars will eventually escalate their behavior to a criminal level is specious... many fakers never go after benefits or even widespread attention due to the fact that their lie is inherently fragile. Even if most did, it would amount to charging people with a major crime (fraud) when they haven't actually committed it (i.e., they haven't actually obtained anything by fraudulent means). Yes, some people might be stopped before they damaged the system that way... but some (if not most) would be punished WAY out of proportion to their actual transgressions. Sort of a double whammy of unconstitutional behavior.
I am on board with treating anybody who lies about having served in the military or about what decorations they obtained during their service as a deviant. I probably dislike them more than most (reference: the various rants I've made about Mick Strider over the years :p )... but come on, unless/until they steal or hurt somebody, they are just being jerks. Unless we can also arrest those people who cut me off on the freeway and extreme couponers for irritating me, I don't see how it is fair to make it against the law to be a jerk :p .
EDIT: I do like your idea about having the apparatus they ape punish them Blerv. How bout instead of court martialing them... we just have them sweep motor pools and wash MRAPs for a few weeks, that outta take the romance out of their vision of military life pretty quick :D .
The argument that liars will eventually escalate their behavior to a criminal level is specious... many fakers never go after benefits or even widespread attention due to the fact that their lie is inherently fragile. Even if most did, it would amount to charging people with a major crime (fraud) when they haven't actually committed it (i.e., they haven't actually obtained anything by fraudulent means). Yes, some people might be stopped before they damaged the system that way... but some (if not most) would be punished WAY out of proportion to their actual transgressions. Sort of a double whammy of unconstitutional behavior.
I am on board with treating anybody who lies about having served in the military or about what decorations they obtained during their service as a deviant. I probably dislike them more than most (reference: the various rants I've made about Mick Strider over the years :p )... but come on, unless/until they steal or hurt somebody, they are just being jerks. Unless we can also arrest those people who cut me off on the freeway and extreme couponers for irritating me, I don't see how it is fair to make it against the law to be a jerk :p .
EDIT: I do like your idea about having the apparatus they ape punish them Blerv. How bout instead of court martialing them... we just have them sweep motor pools and wash MRAPs for a few weeks, that outta take the romance out of their vision of military life pretty quick :D .
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
- Theodore Roosevelt
"I twisted the knife until I heard his heart-strings sing."
- Jim Bowie concerning Maj. Norris Wright
- Theodore Roosevelt
"I twisted the knife until I heard his heart-strings sing."
- Jim Bowie concerning Maj. Norris Wright
I think we do agree on more things than we disagree Jordan. The last idea seems splendid :) .
The Gov does tend to run rabid on some things (*cough* SOPA) so giving it extra power seems frightening at times. Still, liars deserve the *** kicking of the century. Such a shame that karma (or compounding of mistakes) often takes too long to catch up on it's own.
The Gov does tend to run rabid on some things (*cough* SOPA) so giving it extra power seems frightening at times. Still, liars deserve the *** kicking of the century. Such a shame that karma (or compounding of mistakes) often takes too long to catch up on it's own.
Actually this is the one I was referring too. A little more organized, with the relevent information in the initial posts.enduraguy wrote:http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... ame-Over!?
Start a pot of coffee, and enjoy!
Possibly not quite as entertaining, might take two pots of coffee.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... ht=strider