School me on aquariums

[tonydahose]

My kids want one, i am looking at getting a 20-30 gallon tank. they want those lil neon fish, so it will be a fresh water tank. this is what i remember from having a tank when i was a kid.

what i need:

rocks, whats the ratio though?
heater and temp gauge
lid and light
pump for aeration of the water


so what am i missing? do i need anything for the waste?

a link to some good how-to info would be fine as well. thx

EDIT: i just picked up one on craigslist for $20. from the measurements 24" X 12" X 18" it looks like it is 22 gallons?? if my math is right. it has a lid and a light and thats it.

[Bradley]

on our tanks, granted both are bigger, we have about an inch or 2 of rocks on the bottom, one of our tanks is 23 inches tall, we have the air pump, lights, and a filter. When it comes to rock, you really put as much as you want. No real science to it as far as I know. I'll post some pics of our fish tanks.

[Bradley]

[araneae]

I worked pet stores through my youth and had up to 7 aquariums at one time, so let me know if you have more questions. Rocks- you probably want about 15-20 lbs, its up to you. Heater- go fully submersible with a thermostat built in, they cost a little more but are worth it. Air pumps are not 100% necessary with a good power filter, but I always used one. Whisper, and Marineland make good products. Decorations- put plenty of rocks, wood and/or plants in. They will not only make it look nice, but they add refuge spots and keep the fish happy. Fish- I have always been partial to tetras myself.

Best advice- buy a filter that is a step bigger than your tank, start slow letting the tank run for at least a couple days before you add couple fish, and feed only once a day. There are several bacterial cultures sold like stresszyme or cycle that help a new tank get established. Sounds like you have a 20 high tank so you're looking at around 15 small fish capacity.

[syphen]

My tank... 36 gallon bow front fully planted!

I also have a shrimp tank and a isolation tank. 10g and 12g respectively.
You need to figure out what you want to do with this tank, now and in the future. Spend a little more on start up and you could save your self a lot in the future.
Different types of flora & fauna demand different substrates, heating, lighting requirements.

Do you plan on keeping plants?
Do you plan on keeping only Neons? (They die a ton.. not a great fish to keep unless you like constantly re-stocking your tank.)
Goldfish are NOT a good starter fish despite their reputation.
Look at Mollies, Platies, larger full-size Tetras (Non-neon varities.. Ie Blood-fins and such) and Danios.
A fish only tank will require some way to oxygenate the water, either a bubbler or enough water flow in the tank via power heads to help out. A fully planted tank like mine over-produces oxygen and actually often makes my water look carbonated due to pearling from the plants.
If you plan on upgrading or ever moving to a planted tank then get a plant appropriate substrate to start with. Mine is somewhere between a soil and fine crush gravel. It can be used for fish only but allows you to add plants in the future.
Try to avoid a all-in-on tank which has a filter and light fixture all molded into one piece on the tank hood. I recommend a standard tank which has folding glass lid which can open. Then use a light canopy sitting ontop. This allows you to easily upgrade lighting or adding more in the future with ease. Planted tanks have very different lighting requirements then a fish only tank. Marine/Saltwater tanks have a different lighting requirement again too..
Use fully submersible heater. An under-gravel heater is nice because you don't see it, but I don't mind having "things" visible in my tank.
I'd recommend an external canister filter. Often they look like small garbage bins with an intake hose and output hose that both go into the tank. They are easy to clean out as its outside the tank. Often kept out of site under the tank or where ever you can fit it. Get the largest possible filter you afford. Over-filtration is never a problem in my experience. Planted tank or fish-only.
I'm running a Canister filter AND a fluval in-tank filter in addition to 2 marine-reef tank power heads @ 450gph (gallons per hour flow rate). I move a lot of water and filter a lot.
A 30-40 gallon breeder size is a good start for fresh water. Larger tanks are easier to care for when starting out. Disease and sickness can spread rapidly killing your tank off in small tanks.

Read about cycling a tank. There is a process of building up a colony of healthy bacteria that exists for ALL types of fish tanks. Fish and other creatures put out waste just like us. This creates ammonia in the tank which is a poison. With time, ammonia-eating bacteria build up and convert it to nitrites (another poison but not as bad as ammonia.) In more time, ammonia-eating bacteria AND nitrite eating bacteria build up.. converting all that fish-poisoning bad stuff into nitrates, which fish can tolerate and can be filtered out easily by your fancy filtration system.

This is important as adding a bunch of fish to a "young" tank will often result in all them dying off because there is no healthy bacteria.

In the future you can move to different types of fish, like Cychlids - which are very cool fish. They are a big family that includes oscars, discus and some of the Angel Fish. I started keeping Loaches which are very sensitive to water conditions being "scaleless" compared to a traditional aquarium fish.

Remember to do regular water changes early on...

Read A lot! There is a ton of aquarium specific forums for almost ANY type of aquarium you could want to do.

[tonydahose]

The plan is to put some of the neon fish and that's about it. I have found a few articles on line and have been reading them trying to learn everything I can. Any idea of what other fish get along with the neons?

[syphen]

Re-read my post. I added some more above! :)

[Bert T]

There are tons of info out there. Google search on "Setting up a fish tank", "Community tank fish", and so on. Start out wrong and all your little fishes will die. If you are doing everything correctly, it will normally take 8 to 10 days before your new tank will be ready to accept fish. And remember "big fish eat little fish" generally speaking. That's just mother nature.

Bert

[syphen]

There are tons of info out there. Google search on "Setting up a fish tank", "Community tank fish", and so on. Start out wrong and all your little fishes will die. If you are doing everything correctly, it will normally take 8 to 10 days before your new tank will be ready to accept fish. And remember "big fish eat little fish" generally speaking. That's just mother nature.

Bert

Sometimes smaller angry aggressive schooling fish when put in a big community tank alone will pick on a kill other fish from stressing them out too.. Ive had normally peaceful Flag Fish go rogue and start attacking other fish

[NYRich]

It's been about 12 years since I owned my own home. When I did, there were a half dozen tanks in the basement. If I tried that in my apartment, the floor would probably give way.

You've already gotten some good advice, but I can't stress your learning about the nitrogen cycle highly enough. Look it up on the Internet and learn it well. Get to understand the need for water changes and what water testing kits you'll need. You will need a filter, but a simple hang on (Penguin is decent) type will handle the light waste load from neons easily enough. Do not overfeed them or you WILL have problems. Less is more!

Before adding "good" fish, let the tank cycle (see nitrogen cycle mentioned above) using a couple of expendable fish. The cheaper the better, as they will likely die before the tank cycles.

Anyway, neons are schooling fish. Don't start with fewer than a dozen (more is better). They find security in numbers and will stay hidden unless they are comfortable. Also, if you want neons, remember that they are from waters containing a lot of peat, which makes it kind of dark. There are all kinds of additives that will balance the Ph to low acidic levels (try around 5.5-6) and other water chemistry requirements to what they thrive in.

Some plants, (plastic ones work fine but don't help with the nitrogen cycle), along with some DARK gravel (brownish tones) and a few rock are all the decorations you need. Rinse the gravel thoroughly and buy your rocks from a pet shop. Seriously, picking up a few rocks from the garden is NOT a good idea. Unless you're using an undergravel filter (not needed) 1" of gravel is plenty.

These are very small fish. Need I mention that they should not be kept with larger fish that see them as being a snack?. I wouldn't suggest the Oscars or parrot fish that Bradley has for their tankmates. eek:

Some good tankmates are corydorus catfish (3 or 4) which are very peaceful. If you run into algae issues 1 SMALL plecostomus (pleco) catfish is also good. Plecos get pretty large eventually but are quite harmless to any fish that isn't already dead.

It's a great hobby and very relaxing. Let me warn you.....my eldest daughter won a goldfish at a church bazaar. It cost me nearly $5,000 by the time I got done. :D

[NYRich]

Sometimes smaller angry aggressive schooling fish when put in a big community tank alone will pick on a kill other fish from stressing them out too.. Ive had normally peaceful Flag Fish go rogue and start attacking other fish

Quite true. It's science, but not an EXACT science by any stretch of the imagination.

I had an 8" Oscar that was a pussycat but have seen small fish like swordtails get nasty as all get out!

[tonydahose]

ok i have one more question. i have a hayward pump for my pool that uses diatomaceous earth as the filter medium. i know this stuff works great on my pool and i have a ton of this stuff. is there a realively cheap filter that i can use this stuff in?

[syphen]

Is it a powder? In most canister filters there is usually a chamber or spot to place a media filter bag. You could use it in one of those filter bags and it it into the filter, yes. I use foam of various coarseness, plastic balls, carbon
Bags, and ceramic rings all inside my canister. My in-tank filter just uses foam elements but does have a spot to put a media bag.

[NYRich]

ok i have one more question. i have a hayward pump for my pool that uses diatomaceous earth as the filter medium. i know this stuff works great on my pool and i have a ton of this stuff. is there a realively cheap filter that i can use this stuff in?

PLEASE....DO NOT USE IT....My pool had a Hayward filter that USED DE. DE meant for pools often contains chlorine and only God knows what else.

Buy the correct media for whatever filter you choose. Usually a combination of a sponge and some activated carbon. The ceramic rings are also great but PLEASE do not try to save a few cents by using DE.

[tonydahose]

ok...just thought i'd ask, it seemed like it would have been a good idea :p . no de for the fishies.

[Adriaan]

Some Gyrinocheilus are handy, plants, a hiding place for your fishes like a small amphora. And if you go on a holiday put enough food in your tank! (Depending on the species of fish you can put in some pieces of cucumber with a weight so that it sinks and stays in place.) Pay attention with species you put togheter or they wil fight and eat each other alive! If not then in the morning your going to look at your fishes and say, hey didn't i have bought more fishes? Where is little John? LOL

We used to have an aquarium at home when i was a kid. It's nice and relaxing. But it became to much work and our fishes became to big (we had allready a huge aquarium), so we gave them away.

[Evil D]

Your neighbor really needs to mow his lawn :D


I have a ~20 gallon with 1 single goldfish in it. For whatever reason, it's green and nasty as ****. It was always really clean and clear until a couple months ago i bought a koi and added him in with the goldfish. The koi is now dead and the water is nasty green, but the goldfish (we call him The Immortal) is still alive and doesn't seem to care. My filter is working fine from what i can tell so i have no idea why the water is all green.

We call him The Immortal because nothing seems to threaten this little guy's life. He started out as fish bait about 2 years ago and we bought this little tank just to keep our bait in between fishing trips. At the end of the season we had about 6 left and we haven't done much fishing since. We've had to take down the tank a few times, and this little guy has lived in an inch of water, all the other fish have died, but this guy is still hanging in there and he's about 3 times the size he was. He's earned a spot as a pet and is no longer bait :)

[syphen]

The green water is most likely an algae bloom. Is the tank in direct exposure to sunlight? Or have you upgraded the lighting to high output ?

[NYRich]

The green water is most likely an algae bloom. Is the tank in direct exposure to sunlight? Or have you upgraded the lighting to high output ?

Probably a good bet that light intensity is either too high or too low. Either will cause algae blooms.

There are chemicals available that are supposed to kill off the algae, but I never liked adding anything like that. They often cause more problems than they solve.

If the water itself is green due to suspended/floating algae particles, I'd suggest using a DE filter designed specifically for aquarium use. The Vortex brand is excellent and there used to be a brand called System 1 that was the easiest to use. (Each manufacturer also sells DE made for aquarium use that does not contain chemicals and I would stick with the same brand as the filter). There may even be additional brands around but since I've been away from the hobby for quite a few years, I simply don't know. These filters are meant to be run for an hour or less as they clog up rapidly. They do not replace your regular filter but serve to supplement it. At first, run it daily for an hour. Once the algae is under control, you can run it a few times a month to keep the tank crystal clear.

These filters are not cheap, but worth every cent considering what they accomplish.

By they way, I used to deal with a company in Lancaster, PA called "That Fish Place". They have a website and their prices were a good 50% less than the stores in New York.

[butch]

that fish place is just up the road from me and is a great place to deal with
im getting ready to set up a new tank to house a dwarf lime tree and the bottom half will be water fish/ planted tank (jsut waiting for the right 50+ gal corner tank to show on C list or the e bay)
the goal is a tank for my tree inn the winter and then take it oug for the summer