Happy or Sad or Both in USA

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jackknifeh
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Happy or Sad or Both in USA

Postby jackknifeh » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:58 pm

Old subject.

I'm so happy that I live in a country and situation that someone's wedding can cost several million dollars for a one day event.

I'm so sad that I live in a country and situation where there are so many hungry children (adults too).

If the millions that was spent on weddings was used to buy food maybe there wouldn't be any hungry kids.

On the other hand if we quit helping hungry kids more of us could have really fancy weddings.

I'm sorry but I just saw an article about a millions of dollars wedding and it struck a nerve. I know it's their money and all that and I believe in that but personally, I don't care much for the whole huge wedding idea. It should be celebrated but it's only special to the couple, friends and family. I really don't think anyone else on the planet needs to care. I know I don't. Not to be mean, but why should I? They don't care about me and why should they? They shouldn't. But if you want a big wedding that's cool also of course. It's your money (or somebody's) and your wedding so congratulations and I wish you the best. Can I kiss the bride? :rolleyes: :D

So much wealth, so much hunger. PLEASE don't get me wrong. I don't think all extremely rich people should give money to the poor. That's as much my job as it is theirs. As a rule I don't give to charity. I don't know where the money goes. I know that's no excuse. I have bought food for homeless people and handed it to them myself a few times. That's about all I've ever done. I did buy a small bag of dog food for a dog that was sitting beside a man with a "will work for food" sign. :) I felt better about that than the guys big mac. :D

It's off my chest now so I'll stop ranting. It's an old subject and isn't any closer to being fixed by me typing this.

Jack

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The Deacon
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Postby The Deacon » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:29 pm

As you said Jack, it's their money and at least some of it will be putting food on the tables of other families. So, in that sense it's doing their community more good than if they left it in the bank. As for the hungry kids, at least some of them are hungry because their parent selfishly squandered the handouts the government gave them on booze, drugs, lotto tickets or cigarettes.
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jackknifeh
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Postby jackknifeh » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:06 pm

The Deacon wrote:As you said Jack, it's their money and at least some of it will be putting food on the tables of other families. So, in that sense it's doing their community more good than if they left it in the bank. As for the hungry kids, at least some of them are hungry because their parent selfishly squandered the handouts the government gave them on booze, drugs, lotto tickets or cigarettes.
Yeah, that's another reason I don't usually give to charities. If I can put something in someone's hand at least I know it got to where it was meant to be. Sometimes I hate to even think about this stuff. You're thinking "So why did you start this thread???! :D

Jack

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Postby BAL » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:42 am

Well thought out thread Jack. We're the same age, so I guess it makes sense that I feel exactly the same. Withina few minutes, I can honestly say either people are great, I love to work and deal with everyone, and then turn around and think about moving to the middle of nowhere and not telling anyone where I am. I guess that's why I live on a farm, pretty much away from most people, but work in an office full of the same type of people that I either love ot hate. Anyay, take care.

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Postby D1omedes » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:06 pm

jackknifeh wrote:As a rule I don't give to charity. I don't know where the money goes. I know that's no excuse.
I agree with most of your post except that which I've quoted above.

There are many charities that do a lot of good for people (ie. http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/, http://www.stjude.org/, http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/, etc.).

Do I know where every dollar I donate gets sent? No. Do I believe they are all shams? Of course not.

The sad truth is that most millionaires do not give as often as every day citizens. Why do you think charities hold large events and plead with citizens to donate? That's how they generate most of their funds - from the middle class. I am not saying that there aren't rich people who donate and help others but many in that income bracket do not contribute at the same rate poorer Americans do.

It all comes down to personal preference. No one can, or should, force you to give to charity. But I take pride in the fact that America is the most giving nation (even though we have plenty of domestic problems to contend with). And if I have some extra spending cash, I will donate a bit. I just feel incredibly guilty knowing that despite all the complaining I do about my problems, there are those out there dealing with a whole lot worse and still remain hopeful.

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Postby salimoneus » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:55 pm

Unfortunately most of the money donated to charities for disabilities and diseases eventually goes straight to the biotechnology and pharmaceutical companies, whom I believe are in large part to blame for these epidemics to begin with.

We have our priorities out of whack all right, unfortunately with health and nutrition at the bottom of the list for most people. But as long as they can have the latest iPhone, 2000+ channels on the tv, drive a loaded SUV, and live in a house twice the size of what they need, life is good. I guess?

Oh and lets not forget spending $400 on football tickets to watch multi-millionaire athletes play while their kid's school teacher barely makes enough to put food on the table.

Not for much longer though. Things will get worse socially and economically before anyone really does anything. It's like an addict or alcoholic hitting rock bottom before they can make any realizations. If people think things are bad now, just wait.

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Postby jabba359 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:46 pm

jackknifeh wrote:Old subject.

I'm so happy that I live in a country and situation that someone's wedding can cost several million dollars for a one day event.

I'm so sad that I live in a country and situation where there are so many hungry children (adults too).

If the millions that was spent on weddings was used to buy food maybe there wouldn't be any hungry kids.

Jack
I also think it was an extravagant waste of money, but all's not lost. Think of all the waiters, caterers/chefs, florists, limo drivers, photographers, the DJ, security personnel, and other people who were glad to be hired to work this wedding so that they could take money home to feed their wives and kids. While a direct donation of all that money may have helped more, I'm a firm believer in working for what we get. This million-dollar-wedding ended up employing a whole lot of people for a day or two or three, income the workers potentially wouldn't have earned otherwise.
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Postby Sequimite » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:50 pm

Why should I have thousands of dollars of knives when people are starving to death for lack of a small fraction of that? Bill Gates gave away 90% of his money; what about the other 10%?

I try not to judge others and if they judge me, that's their problem. From a rigorous moral perspective the only answer I can justify is to give everything away. I don't like that answer, so I don't dwell on it. I've been praised by others for my generosity but I don't buy it. I usually give from relative abundance, not until it really hurts.

I have risked my life to help others and given my last dollar to someone who needed it more, but these were people I knew. I choose not to know much more about those with huge needs.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897

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Postby Blerv » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:00 pm

There are countless things to donate money too. Hungry children, work education and programs for the homeless, overseas medical research, the list goes on.

The one thing that most (if not all) people can agree on is that weddings are piss-poor waste of resources. It's one of the holy things though that is powered by outside pressure and cultural expectation.

Between one person having "my special day" and the other supporting them in that it doesn't really make sense but it's a juggernaut difficult to stop. Most young folks that are getting married young are full of zest and excitement and the parents never ask, "would you like to feed 2,000 starving children or have a fancy cake?" They never ask if the married couple would like a retirement account opened which will grow over 40 years and set them up for life.

If I ever have a child and if that child ever gets married I'll be sure to ask the question. I'm sure they will nay-say the concept and the family will think I'm insane. As they say though, hindsight is 20/20. :p


Edit: As Sequimite said it's something difficult to draw the line on. All or nothing and there will always be starving kids and homeless people.

I think you have to do your best in this society with what you are given. That can be raising a kid who doesn't end up a sociopath or jerk father to giving away billions of dollars.
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Postby rosconey » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:12 pm

when i shop at wegamans they have a stamp out hunger ticket at the register -
2 bucks or something each-
i figure since im eating why not feed someone who is down and buy 3-4 of them

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Postby salimoneus » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:52 pm

Sequimite wrote:Why should I have thousands of dollars of knives when people are starving to death for lack of a small fraction of that? Bill Gates gave away 90% of his money; what about the other 10%?

I try not to judge others and if they judge me, that's their problem. From a rigorous moral perspective the only answer I can justify is to give everything away. I don't like that answer, so I don't dwell on it. I've been praised by others for my generosity but I don't buy it. I usually give from relative abundance, not until it really hurts.

I have risked my life to help others and given my last dollar to someone who needed it more, but these were people I knew. I choose not to know much more about those with huge needs.
I don't think anyone is judging you or anyone else who has thousands of dollars of knives. People are certainly free to spend their money (or credit) on whatever they wish.

Unfortunately I just see so many unhealthy people out there, who put a higher priority on having a phat condo, fancy car, electronic gadgets, and other materialistic things, that now we have a health care crisis in this country because nobody is taking care of themselves and expects to be magically made well again.

Just look at how popular fast food is now, we're so detached from where our food comes from, nobody even thinks about it anymore. The sh1t that people put into their bodies nowadays just amazes me. Have you seen any recent child obesity or diabetes statistics in the US? If not then go take a look, it's horrifying.

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Postby angusW » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:55 pm

A few years ago I walked into Home Depot and there was a table set up just inside the door. There was a young woman at the table asking for donations that would go to help feed and clothe children. I asked her what percentage of the money goes for food and clothes. She said 23%. I said no, I won't be donating.

I've also bought a sandwich for different people asking for change but real giving is when you lose something of importance to you. I've done that a couple of times in the past. After a while you realize it's not as difficult as it seems and to help someone in need is the greatest treasure to be found.

As far as Bill Gates giving 90% of his wealth, you have to remember that those "donations" are more of an investment. When people in that echelon of society donate, a lot of times it is in their interest and in the end doesn't hurt them at all.
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Postby Sequimite » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:09 pm

angusW wrote:As far as Bill Gates giving 90% of his wealth, you have to remember that those "donations" are more of an investment. When people in that echelon of society donate, a lot of times it is in their interest and in the end doesn't hurt them at all.
I want to give full credit to Bill and Melinda for giving away billions of dollars and actually stating that for their children to have that much money would be bad for them.

It is only in their interest in the same way that it is any of our interests to give of ourselves and doesn't actually hurt us in any way that matters.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
- William James, from The Will to Believe, a guest lecture at Yale University in 1897

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Postby SolidState » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:06 pm

Personally, I see the evidence of poor and dwindling scientific education in this country and I cry for the future. No other modern nation has such rampant scientific and mathematical illiteracy, and it shows. I give my time and my effort for free to people in rough socioeconomic situations even though I charge full price to people who can afford it. Call it redistribution of wealth or whatever. I call it evening the playing field.

I really don't think we'll do anything about hunger until we tackle our societal priorities and stop encouraging sociopaths at the detriment of the poor. People strive to beat a bar wherever you put it, as long as they can see it. Sadly, too few start close enough to any ceiling/bar to ever have it matter to them, and the number is dwindling faster than at any time in the last 100 years.
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Postby Evil D » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:34 am

I would like to believe people who are well off enough to have a million dollar wedding are giving some of their wealth to the needy but unfortunately thats typically not the case. As much as it disgusts me, its not my place to say how they should spend their money. I like to believe karma that will do what it does best in situations like this.
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Postby bh49 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:38 am

jackknifeh wrote: I'm so happy that I live in a country and situation that someone's wedding can cost several million dollars for a one day event.
I'm so sad that I live in a country and situation where there are so many hungry children (adults too).
Jack
Jack,
Are you talking about Kim Kardashian? If yes, it's a show. There are much fancier weddings in third world countries, where people do not have opportunities like in US.
I wasn't born in this country and for me since the first day wasn't clear how people who doesn't have language barrier, grown-up, healthy and willing to work can be poor or hungry. There are jobs always available. Recently I met one gentleman from Azerbidgan. He is in his fifties, master degree. He came to US few years ago with wife and two sons. He works in Walgreen. He is riding bicycle to his work, but nobody hungry and live in nice apartment.
Regarding charities. This is very helpful site
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.c ... w&cpid=419
Regarding us, every year we donating money to children’s hospital, cancer research, American cancer society, volunteer’s firefighters. I strongly believe that there are lees fortune people than us and we have to help to sick and children.
The Deacon wrote:As you said Jack, it's their money and at least some of it will be putting food on the tables of other families. So, in that sense it's doing their community more good than if they left it in the bank. As for the hungry kids, at least some of them are hungry because their parent selfishly squandered the handouts the government gave them on booze, drugs, lotto tickets or cigarettes.
+1
Paul I always agree with you (almost :) )
SolidState wrote:Personally, I see the evidence of poor and dwindling scientific education in this country and I cry for the future.
This is something, which is bothering me a lot. We depend on foreign oil, foreign money and foreign engineers.
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Postby SolidState » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:25 pm

bh49 wrote: This is something, which is bothering me a lot. We depend on foreign oil, foreign money and foreign engineers.
I couldn't have put it better myself. We won't be able to import innovation much longer; because we won't be the top-tier innovators.
"Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
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Jazz
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Postby Jazz » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:24 pm

I agree about the big, stupid wedding thing - I eloped and it costed $50.00. I also do see what Paul's saying that the money did go to a community or communities and into peoples' jobs, but some people have a lot of money that they could be helping charities with and just don't care. What can we do?

- best wishes, Jazz.

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Postby The Deacon » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:31 pm

Jazz wrote:I agree about the big, stupid wedding thing - I eloped and it costed $50.00. I also do see what Paul's saying that the money did go to a community or communities and into peoples' jobs, but some people have a lot of money that they could be helping charities with and just don't care. What can we do?

- best wishes, Jazz.
I suppose the government could either mandate that they pay for even more government sponsored charity via taxes or encourage them to voluntarily contribute more via larger tax breaks. Not sure how popular, or how right, either system would be. I have this notion that money I've earned should be mine to dispose of as I see fit, at least that part of it above and beyond my fair share to maintain essential government services.
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Postby JD Spydo » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:27 pm

I am currently working for a inner city ministry that is caring for the homeless, jobless and extreme poverty cases here in Kansas City, Missouri. It's been a job that has opened my eyes to a lot of the Tom-foolery that goes on in our society.

A lot of homeless people are good people who just had some miserable bad breaks in their life. But sad to say they are the minority>> because most of the people I deal with are truly nothing but chronic habitual liars, con artists, hard drug addicts, extreme alcoholics and just plain street hustlers.

After working here for almost a year I've heard just about every con, BS story, and scam imaginable. What blows me away is no matter how poor, hungary and destitute these people are they all (almost 100%) smoke cigarettes :mad: . They almost all drink excessive amounts of alcohol :mad: and almost everyone of them will steal the gold out of your teeth so they can get a bottle of liquor ( or dope).

I use to be a very soft hearted person who loved to help people and I still am a compassionate person but I will no longer ever give anyone money at all. I will give them food or go buy their medicine myself and not let them even touch the money and I will try and provide homeless people with blankets, clothing and other necessities.

But just the other day I gave a guy a small bag of groceries out of our food pantry only to see him 30 minutes later trying to sell what was in the bag so he could get some cigarettes. We now have an underclass of people with little or no conscience at all and unfortunately this crowd of people is growing exponentially. It's truly hard to help people of that mindset. That's why I truly recommend you check your charities out first hand and be very careful who you try and help. Because in many cases cigarettes and booze mean more to some people than anything else on earth
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