Spyderco Forums

Hi all,
As many of you know, I have been through my share of "interesting" situations, but the past month takes the cake. I hardly believe it myself but I think that some of ya'll who are or train with LEOs will be particularly interested in at least 2 of the incidents, and I like to kind of keep ya'll apprised, so here goes: (This is going to sound quite crazy, but this is just how my life goes).

I guess most prominently messed up is what put me in the hospital for the past week. I was driving a 10' box truck from my girlfriend's house to my farm when I was pulled over by a deputy sheriff. I'm not 100% sure what said LEO actually decided I had done wrong, but he ordered me out of the truck and to immediately put my hands on his car. (I have heard several different versions of the story from this particular PD given to different people, so it's obvious that their stories do not add up) I'm not sure whether he hit me before putting me in the car or what but I was quite scared and agitated and i think I may have struck the window once out of some manner of primal fear (note that I didn't hit it that hard as there have been 0 bruises on my hands. The lack of bruises and cuts also make it seem awfully fishy that the driver side window of my truck was smashed, but without evidence this is irrelevant). LEO proceeds to pull me out of the car to tase me (when rational discourse would have easily calmed me down). I go completely feral (some of you are familiar with a syndrome that people can get when abused by people in a position of authority - a kind of wounded animal syndrome - this happened to me) and naturally I am scared and in pain so I try to get away. I make it as far as the driver's seat of his cruiser where I try to shield myself from the tasers with anything in the cabin, including a locked down AR-15 :rolleyes: .

I was tased 10 times: 3 abdomen, one on each knee, one on rear left thigh, one on left side of my back, once on my left wrist, one on my left elbow and probably once on my right hand. I have photographic evidence and am collecting more.

On the way to the hospital, I was screaming and convulsing because I was terrified and seriously damaged by the taser wounds. When i arrived I was experiencing severe Rhabdomyolysis and hepatic and renal failure.

I have *NEVER* had a bad liver or kidney panel in my life, much less Rhabdo.

The police's story changed from they found "bath salts" bottles in my truck to they thought I was on "bath salts". They told people that I chased 3 LEOs naked with a machete. Now, I drive wearing only loose fitting shorts because of lower GI issues and a possible paraumbilical hernia. (well, shorts and shoes - I was still wearing my shoes at the hospital so the shorts may have fallen off when I was being killed by the deputies i supposedly menaced) I was open carrying a machete (and a wakizashi) on the front dash because I was afraid to travel completely unarmed after my Memphis gansta run-in (will explain that next) - now by my understanding this is straight 2nd amendment and a police officer in Raleigh approved my open carry of such while on the road for North Carolina. I knew it was legal but wanted to hear it from an LEO in case I were to be harassed or pulled over.

Question: is there ANY possible police training that allows for the firing of up to 10 taser shots from at least 3 different officers? This in and of itself sounds criminal to me without some proof of me trying to kill them. I know that many LEOs disagree, but I have *Every* bit the right to defend my person, property and my freedom when it is challenged, be it by an LEO a career criminal or just some crackpot who thinks I look like his long lost brother who needs to get beat up (the 3rd option being the only one that hasn't happened to me in August) as anyone else, including LEOs, politicians, rich people or employees of an organization who claims to have a special authority over the subjects of morality and/or human rights. Especially now that NC has enacted the Castle doctrine (vehicles are covered).

I may follow with the stories from inside the hospital but I am more concerned about ensuring that this never happens again to me or anyone else alive than the somewhat rough healing process of the past week. Next post will cover the Memphis Kings (or whatever gang rolls heavy in South Memphis - I don't track bandanna colors or neighborhoods as part of my situational awareness but maybe I should so I can be more descriptive to the police next time).

as I said, Memphis gansta story. I will explain it by cutnpasting my open letter (planning to put this up on craigslist but thought I would talk to ya'll first as i trust your judgment).

Post will have title and body of the letter with no modification then perhaps followup.

To whom it may concern,
Thank you for the escort up Winchester Drive last night. Unfortunately, I have more
pressing matters to attend to than being rolled or carjacked by the locals. That out of
state tag may have indicated to you that I was in season, but 34 years of training in
situational awareness and a little due diligence (Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss
Poor Performance) had me making you, not the other way around. Now I meant no disrespect
in trying to drive through the neighborhood I assume you have lived in for many years,
but it is important not to judge a book by its cover. Some books are rather street
savvy, and surely to your own chagrin, some books are smarter and maybe even better
trained to make pursuit in broad daylight than the ones you are used to judging.

I was quite prepared to leave well enough alone (I never did call in your tags BTW as
I am not a criminal informant) when you zipped off and called out one of your buddies.
He did not look as menacing in stature as you, but I gather from the spray-can paint job
and lack of plates on his small import ride that he was sent out for a purpose,
presumably one that entails opening fire on people he doesn't know personally. Now that
was a clever move and he was an effective tail through most of Memphis before I again
got behind him and followed his certainly incredulous person all the way to a Chik-Fil-A
parking lot in suburban Germantown. I can only assume that the young man driving that
car was outside his typical jurisdiction as he sped off, perhaps before MPD or GPD could
get a car behind him. Pretty crafty, but again, hasty with the judgement.

Don't count your chickens before they are neutralized, driver of that black Japanese
car. I take no offense at you protecting your business partner but I must take exception
to your meager attempt to entrap or possibly harm me, as I have taken nothing from you
and have no interest in violating your right to do whatever it is that you do when you
aren't rolling down Poplar St. almost all the way to Exeter St.

Now the third tail in the jacked up pickup was a tasteful change. Much more suited to
the Collierville area. Alas, tailgating me in a large truck, while assumedly a tactic of
intimidation is not an inconspicuous way to send your messages, or to make your mark, or
whatever it is the driver of that particular vehicle was trying to do. I am a patient
man and I let him pass me near Huey's. No harm done.

The sneakiest was the 4th and final distant tail on Bray station. Somebody taught that
driver well. I recommend you praise that driver for their stealth. I had to nearly drive
into the Baptist Hospital to shake that one. By now I'd grown tired of making and
photographing you and your friends and just wanted to go home and have a beer.

Thank you for not trying to kill me later last night. Your mercy humbles me, and as an
ordained minister I draw inspiration wherever I can, be it from the fervent and pious or
simply an indiscreet young man who coerces more timid travelers to give up whatever kind
of loot you perceive them as having. Now my income is far too meager to run an operation
like yours, and that is by design. I would much rather go home, see my children, other
family and friends than to end up the unfortunate victim of whatever felonious acts you
and your comrades had planned for me.

I'll make you a deal:
Stop looking for me. Stop sending your buddies after me. And I will neither call the law
nor some of my friends who either hunt people like you down for a living (and by people
like you I mean anyone who makes a living preying on those who are weaker). And best of
all, I won't come back after you personally.

A greater man than me said, "Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality
and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his
objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and
to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true."
-Martin Luther King Jr.

I would appreciate it if you could leave me unencumbered should I pass through your
neighborhood again. Surely you know of more profitable and less risky endeavours than
attempting to rob people you don't know. One of them might be less patient than myself,
or more malicious.

In closing, I hope you understand that it is best not to bite off more than you can
chew. Especially when what you are biting is unfazed by petty alpha male dominance
behaviours and just might be able to bite you back.

In tranquility and civility,
R.

I'm not done yet but after my hike maybe I can talk about the canning, and its violation of the ADA, after my upcoming hike. :D

Full Title of that letter:

An Open Letter to the Enterprising Young Driver of that Light Grey Cadillac that Tailed Me Yesterday

:confused:

defenestrate, I am glad you are okay. I read the first post and thought it was crazy. I will get to the rest when I have time.

Defenestrate,

I'm on a strange swing-shift schedule this week but would like to extend my sincere condolences for this ordeal. So sorry you went through this crap .

As it's out of my area of expertise I would suggest talking to an attorney about what happened. Based on the number of Tasers alone it seems a blatant case of excessive force. While it doesn't get rid of the suffering or memories I would think a quality attorney would put the local police department in a world of hurt. They at LEAST deserve that.

Kind Regards.

That's just plain weird - sorry to hear of all your troubles. Just a thought though ... don't all police cars these days have cameras fitted? Could you or your lawyer put in a request for the camera footage to ascertain what actually happened? Even a Freedom of Information request might do it? Then you might at least be able to put an end to some the myths that people have been spreading.

Holy smoke Kris, when's the movie coming out. I have read thru everything a couple times and still may need to read again. I hope that everything works out and the main thing now is to get healthy. ChrisR had a great idea about the camera footage and attorney involvement. Will await additional posts with much anticipation. Take care.

BAL wrote:Holy smoke Kris, when's the movie coming out. I have read thru everything a couple times and still may need to read again. I hope that everything works out and the main thing now is to get healthy. ChrisR had a great idea about the camera footage and attorney involvement. Will await additional posts with much anticipation. Take care.

Movie? Mini-series at least. I'm going to re-read as well.

Jack

I'm just glad you're well enough to post now.

I'm really surprised they didn't shoot you if you went for the AR. I believe officers are legally justified for deadly force if you attempt to commandeer their weapon illegally.

That is messed up though. I'm not sure I understand at all what happened, and how you ended up in the front seat of their car. Any time I've been coralled by officers, it's always been in the back seat with cuffs or zip ties.

Wow. I've been cuffed and stuffed many more times than I care to admit, and even, deservedly, roughed up a little (proverbial head on the door frame, or tight handcuffs and hard cornering), but never anything remotely like what you describe. I'm glad they didn't shoot you and I hope that everything will work out satisfactorily for you. Sounds like nobody is sure what happened, but the cops seem to have the upper hand if they can get their stories together.

my god :eek: - I think- with a good lawyer- you could give em what was coming to em :mad:

SolidState wrote:I'm really surprised they didn't shoot you if you went for the AR. I believe officers are legally justified for deadly force if you attempt to commandeer their weapon illegally.

That is messed up though. I'm not sure I understand at all what happened, and how you ended up in the front seat of their car. Any time I've been coralled by officers, it's always been in the back seat with cuffs or zip ties.

This was a locked down AR15 - not even sure it had a magazine - I don't think it did. You can't kill someone for trying to shield themselves from your abuse with a gun that you *know* cannot fire a bullet. I mean, you can, but it goes from justifiable homicide (what they would have gotten away with if they'd sucessfully killed me with the tasers) to murder. If I have a stick that looks like a gun, and you KNOW it's incapable of firing a shot, you escalate force when you pull a gun knife or taser, and especially when you use those kinds of implements. even macing me would be an escalation of force, but what you don't understand is that they were literally burning holes in my body with tasers while I was in that car. I wouldn't have been in the driver seat at all if they didn't pull me out to tase me. As a natural born citizen of the USA in a Castle Doctrine state I have the right to defend myself my loved ones and/or my property (yes even in a car) even if that defense involves escalation of force up to and including lethal methods. In other words once they tased me ANY defensive action I take is 100% legal because they have escalated to lethal force (yes, one taser may be less than lethal but I guarantee you that 10 separate tasers from 3 cops or so == lethal force and I may be the first man ever to live after being tased that many times.

In other words, I understand your point of view, but it is simply invalid especially in a Castle Doctrine state. Not that it's a terrible idea, I just will never ever live in a place where cops can legally murder me for looking at a locked unloaded gun.

Wow glad you are OK...will have to give this one some thought...somethings not right!...Doc

Sounds like a whole mess of bad timing, miscommunication, and mistaken intentions snowballed in a two-word term that starts with a C and an F as they are won't to do from time to time. I'm glad to hear that you're Ok and hope that things get gone over and recognized to the betterment of all parties involved.

This whole thing just does not make any sense at all to me and seems that there is more to this story....I am totally confused....

gunnut - I am still remembering details. Upon arrival at the hospital I was semiconscious. As far as there being more to the story, I think the fact that I was cuffed to my bed for two days so I could be "incarcerated" for whatever they accused me of doing and then all of a sudden they just left without even asking the hospital to inform them of my release tells me that a> they didn't leave just so they didn't have to foot the bill and b> it must have been plain to see that I had gotten a raw deal. In any case, I have some things to consider and those things will determine exactly how I deal with this situation going forward. I know I'm not enjoying the muscle or nerve damage that I was so graciously given by the tasers.