Wicked Edge vs Edge Pro

[Evil D]

Well, like they say, your mileage may vary. FFG can be done, i just got sick of spending my money on a sharpening setup that i had to jump through hoops and rig up to make work. Some FFG's i had less issues with, but some (like the Caly 3 for example) have such an abrupt grind from thick to thin that the blade would actually slide out of the clamp over the course of sharpening, no matter how tight i clamped it (eventually until i actually stripped the screws out of the clamp itself). Like i said, maybe i've missed something about the WE, but the fact that there's a clamp there was enough to steer me away from it.

[Popsickle]

here are some pictures of the XL manix 2 sharpened on the wicked edge.

[razorsharp]

I wanna see somebody use EP tapes or Micromesh paper on a WE :D

[w3tnz]

Well, i don't own a WE but i own a Lansky and a Smith's which are both clamp style guides..

If you do some research you will see that the WE creator also had all of them, and realised they had issues, so designed the wicked edge. Theres no problem with big or FFG knives, this has been proven, and if your that worried about the tip situation nothing to stop you adjusting the angle and working the tip however you desire? There was a thread on bf of a guy sharpening his machax in two different sections, with two different angles, there are also techniques to do convex edges etc.

Heres a good BF thread about the system too;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... icked+edge

[Evil D]

If you do some research you will see that the WE creator also had all of them, and realised they had issues, so designed the wicked edge. Theres no problem with big or FFG knives, this has been proven, and if your that worried about the tip situation nothing to stop you adjusting the angle and working the tip however you desire? There was a thread on bf of a guy sharpening his machax in two different sections, with two different angles, there are also techniques to do convex edges etc.

Heres a good BF thread about the system too;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... icked+edge

It does fix a couple problems that other clamp sharpeners have, like the limited degree you can sharpen at. Then again, it also only goes down to 15 degrees per side which was probably the biggest overall issue i had with it. I spend big money on sprint super steels so i can play with low bevels, so i don't like being limited to only 15 degrees. Second, as for the FFG issue, to me it's an issue because i don't have to do all that stuff with the EP...so to me using the WE that's an issue..it's one less thing i have fiddle with. As for the blade length/tip issue and reclamping...man that's just tedious. It's much easier to just lay the blade on the EP table and move it between strokes...much faster.

Anyway, i went back and watched the demonstration video again to make sure i wasn't missing anything, and here's my three main problems with it (and again, this just just ME and my issues with it, might not stop you from getting the results you want, but this is why i didn't buy one).

1. Although it isn't absolutely necessary, it seems to be designed around a forward to backward stroke down the length of the edge, as opposed to straight into the edge. This is a problem for me because i like my "teeth" to be pointing straight out (or in some situations i may deliberately point them towards the tang for draw cutting). I'm sure this doesn't prevent the knife from getting sharp, but in my OCD mind it prevents it from getting AS sharp as it could be. Remember that a dull knife is basically having those teeth laying down and folded over...well, if you sharpen and your teeth are practically laying down already due to the direction of your stroke...that's bound to have an effect on your edge retention.

2. It uses that "depth key" to assure that the blade is clamped in at the same depth each time. That's a fine idea, but it still leaves one of the biggest problems with clamp setups, and that is how far the edge is from the clamp. The farther the edge is from the clamp, the lower the bevel is going to be. So, for example imagine the difference in bevel degree that you'd see if you sharpened a SAK Classic blade that's only 1/4 inch wide vs. a chef's knife that's 3-4 inches wide. That's going to make for a ridiculous variance in degrees from one knife to the next. Now, does that really matter? You still get repeatable results right? Yes...but, it could become an issue if you go from the WE to the Sharpmaker and go to hit 30 degrees and find that your edge is nowhere near 30 degrees.

3. Lastly, i don't see anything that changes this setup in a way that it prevents the bevel from being lower at the tip and tang on a long knife. The same principles apply as it would on a Lansky. This is geometry, it's not about the design of the clamp, it's something that's impossible to change if you have the blade in one stationary spot and the stones pivoting back and forth like that. Again, does this matter? Only to some, but it matters to me.

At the very least, whether these issues truly matter or not in the pursuit of sharpening a knife is, to me, irrelevant because they're issues that the Edge Pro does not have to deal with, and that's why i feel it's a superior sharpener. At the end of the day all that really matters is if you get the knife sharpened in a way that you're comfortable with, which i have no doubt that the WE can do. When i was all about the Lansky, i was all about upgrading to a WE, until i started doing my research on the EP.

[Zenith]

Though I like both from what I have seen it is not for me. Yes I am playing devils advocate but not one is portable enough for me going into the field or away from home on business for 7 months. Therefore I like my diamond paddle or similar and freehand sharpening.

[Popsickle]

It does fix a couple problems that other clamp sharpeners have, like the limited degree you can sharpen at. Then again, it also only goes down to 15 degrees per side which was probably the biggest overall issue i had with it. I spend big money on sprint super steels so i can play with low bevels, so i don't like being limited to only 15 degrees. Second, as for the FFG issue, to me it's an issue because i don't have to do all that stuff with the EP...so to me using the WE that's an issue..it's one less thing i have fiddle with. As for the blade length/tip issue and reclamping...man that's just tedious. It's much easier to just lay the blade on the EP table and move it between strokes...much faster.

Anyway, i went back and watched the demonstration video again to make sure i wasn't missing anything, and here's my three main problems with it (and again, this just just ME and my issues with it, might not stop you from getting the results you want, but this is why i didn't buy one).

1. Although it isn't absolutely necessary, it seems to be designed around a forward to backward stroke down the length of the edge, as opposed to straight into the edge. This is a problem for me because i like my "teeth" to be pointing straight out (or in some situations i may deliberately point them towards the tang for draw cutting). I'm sure this doesn't prevent the knife from getting sharp, but in my OCD mind it prevents it from getting AS sharp as it could be. Remember that a dull knife is basically having those teeth laying down and folded over...well, if you sharpen and your teeth are practically laying down already due to the direction of your stroke...that's bound to have an effect on your edge retention.

2. It uses that "depth key" to assure that the blade is clamped in at the same depth each time. That's a fine idea, but it still leaves one of the biggest problems with clamp setups, and that is how far the edge is from the clamp. The farther the edge is from the clamp, the lower the bevel is going to be. So, for example imagine the difference in bevel degree that you'd see if you sharpened a SAK Classic blade that's only 1/4 inch wide vs. a chef's knife that's 3-4 inches wide. That's going to make for a ridiculous variance in degrees from one knife to the next. Now, does that really matter? You still get repeatable results right? Yes...but, it could become an issue if you go from the WE to the Sharpmaker and go to hit 30 degrees and find that your edge is nowhere near 30 degrees.

3. Lastly, i don't see anything that changes this setup in a way that it prevents the bevel from being lower at the tip and tang on a long knife. The same principles apply as it would on a Lansky. This is geometry, it's not about the design of the clamp, it's something that's impossible to change if you have the blade in one stationary spot and the stones pivoting back and forth like that. Again, does this matter? Only to some, but it matters to me.

At the very least, whether these issues truly matter or not in the pursuit of sharpening a knife is, to me, irrelevant because they're issues that the Edge Pro does not have to deal with, and that's why i feel it's a superior sharpener. At the end of the day all that really matters is if you get the knife sharpened in a way that you're comfortable with, which i have no doubt that the WE can do. When i was all about the Lansky, i was all about upgrading to a WE, until i started doing my research on the EP.

1. being an owner of both and realizing the pros and cons of each. the wicked edge is faster, and as far as the strokes nothing gets "folded over" you still get that toothy finish if you so desire that.

2. angle cube is your friend(i also use it with the edge pro).... please refer back to my pictures. my XL manix will absolutely hit whatever angle i want on the sharpmaker after using the wicked edge.... as well as all my para 2's and any other knife i sharpen for that matter.

3. do you really think your bevel from start to tip is perfect since they are all hand sharpened? lol they sure aren't. i measured 3 spots on the xl manix i sharpened. the heel, middle and tip with the angle cube and at most got a variance or .2 degrees difference in any direction. Geuss what that means? the sharpmaker will still touch it up! most folding pocket knives ARE NOT large enough for that to come into play.

i agree the statment "to each their own" comes into play. these are two different sharpeners, with different pros and cons.

[Evil D]

1. being an owner of both and realizing the pros and cons of each. the wicked edge is faster, and as far as the strokes nothing gets "folded over" you still get that toothy finish if you so desire that.

2. angle cube is your friend(i also use it with the edge pro).... please refer back to my pictures. my XL manix will absolutely hit whatever angle i want on the sharpmaker after using the wicked edge.... as well as all my para 2's and any other knife i sharpen for that matter.

3. do you really think your bevel from start to tip is perfect since they are all hand sharpened? lol they sure aren't. i measured 3 spots on the xl manix i sharpened. the heel, middle and tip with the angle cube and at most got a variance or .2 degrees difference in any direction. Geuss what that means? the sharpmaker will still touch it up! most folding pocket knives ARE NOT large enough for that to come into play.

i agree the statment "to each their own" comes into play. these are two different sharpeners, with different pros and cons.

1. Yes, the teeth are folded over. If you looked under high enough magnification, if you sharpened with the stones going in the direction the guy showed in the video i watched, the teeth would be pointing toward the tip of the blade. This matters. Again, it matters to some....may not matter to you, but it can make a difference in cutting performance and edge retention, which matters to me. The direction the stones hit the edge dictate which direction the teeth are facing.

2. So i have to buy an angle cube to make it work right too? Again, more tedious.

3. This is why i reprofile my knives from the start, that way i know they're perfect Yes, the SM will still touch the edge IF you use the 40 degree setting, because you're hitting the very edge. And yes you're correct, most pocket knives are short enough that this isn't as big of a deal, but i also sharpen Military's which start to become an issue, plus all my kitchen knives which are mostly over 5 inches.

All i'm saying is, those are issues i won't deal with. We can parry and joust all day but the issues are there. All of these issues can be gotten around by various tricks and techniques, i just decided that i was done playing games and didn't want to have to compensate for something not working how i wanted it to.

If it makes you feel better, there are still things about the EP that i don't like. It scratches up blades no matter how much tape i put on the table and it has a pretty big margin of error if your hand holding the blade isn't holding it flat on the table, you can really screw up your bevels if you're not careful. In all reality the WE is probably more "idiot proof" since a clamp setup IMO is less easy to screw up with since you don't have to focus on holding the knife while also moving the stones. Everything has a learning curve.

[Popsickle]

2. So i have to buy an angle cube to make it work right too? Again, more tedious.

i use the angle cube on the edge pro also......

also, im sitting here racking my brain about the folded over "teeth" on a lower grit finish. the wicked edge and the edge pro have one thing in common. the strokes are very similar. but that i mean your working towards the tip on them both. so how does that make the edge different? I do the wicked edge strokes away from me working toward the edge not pulling toward me. and the edge pro is pulling toward me and moving to the tip. its the same motion....

im not knocking the edge pro, some people like it and some people dont. same with the WE. whatever works for everyone is by all means the best route to take.

[Evil D]

i use the angle cube on the edge pro also......

also, im sitting here racking my brain about the folded over "teeth" on a lower grit finish. the wicked edge and the edge pro have one thing in common. the strokes are very similar. but that i mean your working towards the tip on them both. so how does that make the edge different? I do the wicked edge strokes away from me working toward the edge not pulling toward me. and the edge pro is pulling toward me and moving to the tip. its the same motion....

im not knocking the edge pro, some people like it and some people dont. same with the WE. whatever works for everyone is by all means the best route to take.

When i make strokes on the EP, i move inward toward the blade as close to 90 degrees as i can for the spot i'm on, and then move down the blade pass by pass. I don't make one big pass covering the entire length of the blade. I'm sure you could do that with the WE, but it seems like it would be harder since it's not really designed for that motion.

The teeth thing, most people wouldn't even give that a second thought, and it wouldn't matter. But, i was talking to Cliff Stamp about this in another thread a while back and he suggested i try angling the motion of my strokes towards the tang, which would then move the teeth so they point towards the tang. When you use this method with draw cutting it makes for a really aggressive cutting edge (imagine how the teeth of a hacksaw are pointed...same concept). It's one of those things that is really a moot point to argue, but i do believe if you tested two knives sharpened on each of these systems that the EP would yield a better edge retention because of it. It's the same principle behind stropping...you always want to strop straight out 90 degrees from whatever part of the edge you're on, so that the teeth are stood straight up from the edge.

As for the angle cube, i don't own one but i want one. Mainly though i just want it so that i can set up the EP sitting flat on factory bevels so i can then measure what the factory has them set at.

[jackknifeh]

i use the angle cube on the edge pro also......

also, im sitting here racking my brain about the folded over "teeth" on a lower grit finish. the wicked edge and the edge pro have one thing in common. the strokes are very similar. but that i mean your working towards the tip on them both. so how does that make the edge different? I do the wicked edge strokes away from me working toward the edge not pulling toward me. and the edge pro is pulling toward me and moving to the tip. its the same motion....

im not knocking the edge pro, some people like it and some people dont. same with the WE. whatever works for everyone is by all means the best route to take.

Are you saying you use pull strokes when using an Edge Pro? The stone is stroking the edge just like the movement on a strop? If I'm understanding this correctly that is not the preferred method I don't think. I push the stones away on my EP. As I'm finishing a sharpening I may pull the stone using VERY light strokes, eliminating any burr if there is one. There usually isn't though.

Anyway, the thing I wanted to ask you is do you use the Angle Cube for anything other than your sharpening needs? Seems to me you could use it for almost any leveling need. May need to attach it to a longer straight edge but that happens with any level. Just curious. If it can be used for other uses than my knife edges I may have the excuse I have wanted to justify getting one. :) I already used a circular level to mark my EP vertical rod at every angle increment. I could have been more accurate with a cube but I didn't have one. I'm sure you understand my desire for accuracy. Anyone who uses an angle cube when sharpening knives will understand. :)

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Hmmm like doc told me, if rubbing your knife on the curb gets it sharp, then stick with it. :D

[Evil D]

Hmmm like doc told me, if rubbing your knife on the curb gets it sharp, then stick with it. :D

Saw Murray Carter sharpen on a brick and then strop on cardboard and got his knife from so dull it wouldn't cut him to shaving sharp. Maybe i need to sell my EP and get a brick and some boxes

[jackknifeh]

Hmmm like doc told me, if rubbing your knife on the curb gets it sharp, then stick with it. :D

Saw Murray Carter sharpen on a brick and then strop on cardboard and got his knife from so dull it wouldn't cut him to shaving sharp. Maybe i need to sell my EP and get a brick and some boxes

After all the money that is spent on sharpening tools, then here comes Murray with his bricks, coffee cups and the resulting sharp knives. Oh well. :)

One of his videos shows him using two Japanese water stones and stropping on Japanese newspaper. I'm sure Japanese newspaper is much better than American newspaper for stropping. :)

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

After all the money that is spent on sharpening tools, then here comes Murray with his bricks, coffee cups and the resulting sharp knives. Oh well. :)

One of his videos shows him using two Japanese water stones and stropping on Japanese newspaper. I'm sure Japanese newspaper is much better than American newspaper for stropping. :)

Jack

It's the japanese characters that gets it sharp Jack.

[Popsickle]

yes the cube i have is wonderful for all sorts of things :D

Are you saying you use pull strokes when using an Edge Pro? The stone is stroking the edge just like the movement on a strop? If I'm understanding this correctly that is not the preferred method I don't think. I push the stones away on my EP. As I'm finishing a sharpening I may pull the stone using VERY light strokes, eliminating any burr if there is one. There usually isn't though.

Anyway, the thing I wanted to ask you is do you use the Angle Cube for anything other than your sharpening needs? Seems to me you could use it for almost any leveling need. May need to attach it to a longer straight edge but that happens with any level. Just curious. If it can be used for other uses than my knife edges I may have the excuse I have wanted to justify getting one. :) I already used a circular level to mark my EP vertical rod at every angle increment. I could have been more accurate with a cube but I didn't have one. I'm sure you understand my desire for accuracy. Anyone who uses an angle cube when sharpening knives will understand. :)

Jack

[razorsharp]

Saw Murray Carter sharpen on a brick and then strop on cardboard and got his knife from so dull it wouldn't cut him to shaving sharp. Maybe i need to sell my EP and get a brick and some boxes

I made a video doing that and stropped on a dirty beer crate :p . Too bad my file format wasn't supported on the computer and too big to upload via android.....I might trim the video if I find a video editor

[rycen]

Popsickle

Why did you choose to mount the manix so far up in the clamp?

[MachSchnell]

I think that the wicked edge system is simple and way over priced. The edge pro looks to be a better deal, but both sides of the edge can't be done simultaneously.

With that said neither can do a convex edge, which I seem to prefer nowadays. For that reason and for less than $100 I picked up a Harbor Freight 1"x30" belt sander and some 3M Trizact belts, fine micron belts, a strop belt and compound. The system works well but the idler and tracking wheels stink, but I may modify it to accommodate skateboard wheels instead. I also may rig up a dimmer switch to be able to control the speed, because once metal has been removed it cant be put back. If anyone goes this route I'd highly suggest grinding on junk knives or old beaters first to get comfortable with the machine and get the technique down.

The belt grinder system can do flat bevels or convex bevels very well, and quickly. Once a nice edge is established the loaded strop whips an edge right back into shape with little effort.

Even with all these aided and automatic knife sharpening devices, it's still crucial to know how to use a simple pocket stone for field maintenance.

[Evil D]

The thing about convex edges on an EP is, you can do them *sort of*. Essentially all a convex is, is a bevel that gets gradually higher in degree as you get to the edge and all you have to do to get that is continually adjust the angle on the EP until you hit the edge. You basically end up with 5 or so slightly different bevels, each one getting higher until you hit the very edge. If you wanna get fancy from there all you do is strop it on a compound with enough bite to take out the bevel lines and then polish it out just like you would do if you were making a convex freehand. It sounds more complicated than it is.