CCW Pistol Shopping in the Lone Star State

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Lungbarrow
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CCW Pistol Shopping in the Lone Star State

#1

Post by Lungbarrow »

A few qualifiers: First, I've fired several 9mm and .45 over the years and have been around weapons; however, this will be my first purchase. Second, I will likely end up with two, one for home and one specifically for CCW. However, I would like my first to cover both uses as I don't have the capital for two up front.

So, in my limited browsing, the four below are what I came up with as a CCW. Opinions from the Spyder-Elite, particularyl our LEO and such, is much appreciated. Other suggestions are welcome!

I understand there's not a great baseline of comparison here, as these use different ammunition. I'm looking for just the right combination of stopping power and "disappearing" when concealed.

- Sig Sauer p290
- Smith & Wesson 340
- Glock 26
- Glock 36

Particularly with the S&W, there seem to be an overwhelming number of just under and just over 2" barrels, my brain hurts from trying to make sense of all the options.

Thanks for the input one and all!
Michael
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#2

Post by gac »

You have narrowed down your selection to four good choices. I will not muddy the waters with more suggestions.

I reckon any of those four will be reliable and accurate. Try and find a place where you can shoot them and make a final decision.
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#3

Post by 2cha »

I've been thinking about the Sig P290 too. Sig had some problems with introduction of the P380 which seem to be sorted out--but I'd still skip the first year's production and let Sig sort out problems on somebody else's dime--in other words, if you're thinking about the P290, wait until they've been out for a year.

I've shot both the glocks. They worked (and will likely keep on working). I just don't like them.

I really wanted to buy a S&W 340 or other lightweight. I don't shoot them well at all. I shoot the Ruger LCR MUCH better (but bought an SP 101 because I shot that even better than the LCR, but it's in a different weight class). For some reason, shooting more than a few rounds with the 340 and variants hurts the underside of my trigger finger horribly.

At any rate. Best advice always is shoot all of them a lot and see which works best for you. The glocks and the s&w have been available to rent everyplace I've ever gone.
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#4

Post by Lungbarrow »

Thanks for the replies thus far!

Another consideration, as it will be either me or my wife CCW, she wants to make sure it has a good safety. (Also, considering this, I've ruled out a 357 because of recoil on a small pistol).

Any thoughts on which of my pics have "unlikely to fire" in your pocket/purse safeties?

I presume the fact that the Sig and Glock have to be chambered first before you can fire is sort of a a safety...
Michael
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#5

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

The Sigs are solid guns, accurate and reliable, easy to clean and quality made. The Sigs have a hammer drop safety which allows you to carry a round in the chamber safely. I would go with a Ruger Sp101 in .357mag for concealed carry...They are built like a tank, will last forever, accurate and comfortable to shoot even will full hot loads...The light S&W, and I have a 340PD are beasts to shoot and you won't enjoy shooting them...unless you are used to lots of heavy recoil.. but are easy to carry. Something to think about....FWIW...Shooting the Sp101 with hot loads is more comfortable than shooting 38s. with +p Rounds out of any S&W revolver...on the S&W the backstrap is exposed which can hammer into the hands on recoil...even chambered in 38 the light guns are extra punishing on the hands and fingers due to recoil. The grips on the Ruger are awesome and absorb most of the recoil...no exposed backstrap...easy to shoot the Ruger all day without any pain from the recoil...plus you have the option of using .38 specials in the gun and moving up in power as you practice and feel more and more comfortable with the Ruger. Doc :D
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#6

Post by psychophipps »

The G36 is the one model that has consistently given their owners problems from what I have heard. You might want to steer clear of this model.
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#7

Post by 2cha »

Dr. Snubnose wrote:The Sigs are solid guns, accurate and reliable, easy to clean and quality made. The Sigs have a hammer drop safety which allows you to carry a round in the chamber safely. Doc :D
The Sig the OP referenced is the yet to be released polymer P290--double action only, 9lb trigger, no safety, no hammer drop. Sig plans to do a later release of a California compliant version with a safety, but the no safety version will apparently be released first.
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#8

Post by OldHoosier62 »

Doc is correct, I am no fan of ultalights either. Recoil is abusive and will cause training issues after the second cylinder full.

An all steel J-frame Smith with Spegel grips or an SP-101 Ruger is the best compromise of conceal-ability/power and comfort.

As for autos, Kel-Tec,Kahr Arms,Ruger SR-9,any SIG, but I tend not to recommend any of the micro-Glocks for any new concealed carry folks. Too many AD's due to familiarity issues.
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#9

Post by michaelm466 »

I've been looking/researching for the last couple weeks as well (just took my ccw class last week) the two I finally settled on you may want to look at are the Kahr CW9 or P9 if you have the extra money. Nice and thin 1/3 inch thinner, 17 ounces than glocks/xds/sigs etc. Well made, comfortable in hand (imo) or check out the PM if you want smaller, I liked the fuller grip though. The second is the Springfield Armory XDM 3.8" compact, This one is sized in between the Subcompact and compact glocks and will be my winter carry. I liked this model because I already have an XD45 Tactical So I am comfortable with the platform/grip. Also it has the short grip of a subcompact with 13 rounds of 9mm or 11 of 40sw but also comes with a second clip with grip extension to make it a full size grip with 19rounds of 9mm or 16 of .40sw for the range or if you have enough layers to conceal the full size grip.
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#10

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

FWIW: And mind you no disrespect to our Law Enforcement Forum mates intended.....I train Law Enforcement Officers in Firearms training as well as Defensive Tactics, As a certified Law Enforcement Officer Firearms Instructor...Let me say this....A Law Enforcement Officer is about the last person you want to ask for advice about a firearm....Mind you there are a few LEOs that are really excited and informed about firearms but by in large they are in a minority. For the LEO it is the heaviest piece of equipment they that carry, and the least used piece of equipment they have on their person....and if they should happen to use it...they can be in a whole lot of trouble, if the circumstances in which they choose to use it is not justified. That being said I have taught classes where during inspections of the officers firearms, I have found the tubes on occasion so full of lint and wads of dust balls, and I have taken those officers to task only to have them retort with something like that it will fire out with the first round....I'm like what about accuracy.....duh!!!......I have taken officers guns, that were in such bad shape and cleaned them for them when they weren't looking and then those officers have yelled at me for doing so....I remember once an officer reaming me out for cleaning his firearm because it was held up by superiors as an example of how a firearm should be kept and taking care of...only to have the officer say to me, "Now look at what you have done, now they will expect this from me all the time!" Most don't practice till it's time to qualify, mind you I am not saying all, just most. I have an ESU Officer (Swat) who loves his Glock and thinks it's the greatest thing since Toilet paper....mind you I don't like the Glock, not saying it's not a good firearm, but I personally don't like it, even though I have one and train officers in it's use. When I asked this officer what other handguns he likes his reply was I don't know...It's the only one I have....It's kinda of like when you first take the drivers ed course and they teach you in a Pontiac Catalina or a Nissan Sentra, you come home and tell your dad, that's the car I want...until your dad says...no it's not.....and explains why. So for the most part seeking advice from a LEO on firearms is not the greatest idea. Seeking advice from knowledgeable shooters is good advice. Again no disrespect to the OP, but in reading your posts and the statements you have made, even though you have some experience shooting different caliber weapons I can tell your experience is limited. You might want to take a look at some of the gun forums, S&W, Sig, Ruger, Warrior's Talk Forum (Suarez International), or The High Roads Forum for information and to see what people are talking about before making any decisions. The absolute last thing you want to do is to ask the gun store owner or clerk in the gun store what he thinks....chances are he will try to sell you whatever is not selling so well as opposed to giving you the straight scoop on the firearms you are asking about. He is about the last person I would ask for advice when it comes to either firearms or ammunition....Make sure when you go to the gun shop you know what your are talking about and want...Just something to think about.....Doc :D
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#11

Post by dgulbra »

psychophipps wrote:The G36 is the one model that has consistently given their owners problems from what I have heard. You might want to steer clear of this model.
Have over 1500 rounds through mine. Not a single problem. I conceals well and is comfortable to wear
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#12

Post by Beanie-Bean »

Remember, it's hot here in TX most of the year, so I'd recommend something on the small side--perhaps a Ruger LCP, Taurus TCP, Kel tec P3AT.

I just picked up a Sig Sauer P238, and haven't put anything through it yet, but it is a nice-sized little pistol. I also have some Glocks, but they are much heavier and bulkier than the Sig.

Depending on my experience with the .380ACP, I may pick up one of the three firearms I mentioned in the first paragraph.
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#13

Post by Jordan »

Lungbarrow wrote:Thanks for the replies thus far!

Another consideration, as it will be either me or my wife CCW, she wants to make sure it has a good safety. (Also, considering this, I've ruled out a 357 because of recoil on a small pistol).

Any thoughts on which of my pics have "unlikely to fire" in your pocket/purse safeties?

I presume the fact that the Sig and Glock have to be chambered first before you can fire is sort of a a safety...
The fact that you have to charge a pistol prior to firing is as much a safety as the fact that you have to insert a magazine into it... meaning that while that is technically true, it isn't really considered a safety mechanism. None of the guns you listed is likely to go off in your pocket or a purse... they all have redundant internal safety mechanisms designed to prevent such an occurrence. Now, when you say that your wife wants something with a good safety... what does she mean by that? If she means an external safety which must be deactivated by the shooter prior to firing... then none of your picks qualify. Well, at least the glocks and the smith don't. That particular sig model might have a thumb safety on some variants... it's pretty new, so I've haven't even seen one yet, much less handled one. I do have several sigs, a 2340 and a 226, however, and both come equipped with a decocker, but no manual safety.

Don't take that to mean that they are unsafe, of course... most if not all middling to high end modern firearms (such as those listed) are extremely safe. They are engineered, and then over engineered to make unintentional discharges nearly impossible.

My 2 cents on the OPs original query, I think you may be making the mistake of looking for a gun that just wears too many hats. You want something that will serve as a CCW for you and your wife, that will serve as a CCW and a home defense gun, that will have stopping power and be easy to conceal (which really translates into COMFORTABLE to conceal, if you wear the right clothing and invest in the right holsters... you CAN conceal pretty much any sized handgun). I know you said that you will eventually purchase a second handgun... but unless I've misread this thread... you want this gun to be serviceable in all of those capacities.

First, a CCW for two people. I presume that you and your wife have different sized hands, different amounts of upper body strength, and different levels of experience shooting. I think it will be difficult to find a handgun that "fits" both of you perfectly. In my mind... if you are going to carry a weapon... it should fit you as perfectly as possible.

Next, CCW and home defense gun. These are not incompatible, but most people want something else in a home defense gun than what they want in a concealed pistol. For the first... people tend to want high caliber, high capacity firearms. A pistol or revolver that you are only going to use in your home need not be small enough to conceal on your person... after all. People also tend to want the capability to attach "stuff" to these guns. Flashlights, lasers, bayonets, god knows what else :p . Add to that a highly visible sighting system, and you've got the perfect home defense handgun. For CCWs, people tend to prefer lightweight, dimensionally small firearms (well, most people... I carry everywhere that I am legally allowed and never anything under a 4 inch). Now, obviously, if it spits bullets out of one end with a reasonable degree of accuracy... a lightweight, dimensionally small firearm can be a perfectly adequate home defense gun. But, it will never be optimal.

Last, stopping power and easy concealment. You will just have to find a compromise you are ok with. There are plenty of guns that fit the bill for both, mind you. The G36 among them. You've got .45 ACP stopping power in a slim, subcompact package. However, that round is very powerful and that gun is very light. That translates into recoil that some would consider excessive. Large calibers tend to require large frames in order to facilitate effective use. Not a hard and fast rule... but that tends to be the case. I don't remember who said it... but I read a quote once that went along the lines of "1 9mm hit does more damage than 7 .45 misses". Also, like I said earlier... it is possible, easy even, to conceal a full sized or nearly so pistol. What you sacrifice with the size is only comfort... and Clint Smith has a thing or two to say on that subject. My Dad carries an N frame Smith most days. I carry a K frame, a G17, or a 1911 all the time in jeans and a t shirt without having concealment problems. So, if you are willing to sacrifice comfortABLE concealment for a more comfortING weapon, it is certainly possible to do so. :)

Anyway, I've rambled on enough. I'm always glad to hear that someone else is considering joining the ranks of armed citizenry. I hope you find what you are looking for.
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#14

Post by Lungbarrow »

Thanks everyone for your fantastic and helpful input.

Doc and Jordan particularly have made several points I've taken into consideration (and, actually, I almost titled this thread: "Hey Doc, Help Me!") :)

I understand I'm asking for a lot from one tool; and that in so doing it will mean some compromise all around. Being a newbie to shopping for a pistol, I'm thankful for all the input.

Upon further consideration, I think I'm leaning more toward a reasonable sized weapon (larger than those pretty small ones originally mentioned).

My true primary purpose really is home defense, but I wanted something manageable in the event I want to go out with it. So I think I'll approach this from the home side first, with size being a second consideration rather than a driving factor.

I like Doc's recommendation (echoed by a couple others) of some of the Rugers, which I hadn't even come across in my limited hunt. I've read enough since my first post to rule out the smaller S&Ws mostly due to recoil and the fact that, as home defense, my wife's comfort handling it is a must. She's handled the same pistols I have over the years; our hands are different in size, she was most comfortable with a 22 revolver; but she hit the targets better than me with the Sig 9mm and HK 45 (I don't know the specific models, unfortunately).

On paper, I am now drawn to the Ruger SP101 and lean toward a revolver as our first; just due to lower maintenance and complexity. Moving away from the subcompact pistols to slightly larger models, and focusing on revolvers, I presume will open my option considerably.

As far as the safety, yes, my wife had been thinking of an external mechanical safety. But I think she's beginning to understand that what she wants to prevent is misfire/accidental discharge, not so much preventing firing when you're ready to do it. She said "if I have to, I want it to just shoot; I don't want to get confused with unlocking this and that"... I think I'm getting the California out of her! :p

Again, thanks for all the feedback, and if you have more, keep it coming!

I'll pop back in and keep you updated on my progress. I'm going to spend some time the next few months hitting a local range and trying out various medium to medium-small sized firearms to get a feel for them.
Michael
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#15

Post by Lungbarrow »

Jordan wrote:So, if you are willing to sacrifice comfortABLE concealment for a more comfortING weapon, it is certainly possible to do so. :)
I think this sums up my revamped philosophy nicely.
Dr. Snubnose wrote:The absolute last thing you want to do is to ask the gun store owner or clerk in the gun store what he thinks....chances are he will try to sell you whatever is not selling so well as opposed to giving you the straight scoop on the firearms you are asking about. He is about the last person I would ask for advice when it comes to either firearms or ammunition....Make sure when you go to the gun shop you know what your are talking about and want...Just something to think about.....Doc :D
Above all else, THIS is the main reason I even posted my interest here, I knew there would be folks far more unbiased and honest than a sales clerk!

Doc, its funny you mention that about LEOs being perhaps not being the best source for opinions; I hadn't considered your reasoning, but it makes perfect sense. It was my Uncle's (CHP) least favorite tool. Thanks for your input!
Michael
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#16

Post by Wicca_Is_Good »

i've probably bought somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 handguns in the past 9 years. so here's where i'm at. SIGs are nice but they do have issues with the finish wearing off early. S&W, great but honestly you're paying for the name. Glock is what you want trust me! i've only ever owned 1 Glock, but i've had lots to compare it to & in my opinion the best option from what you've listed. they will work clean or dirty. everyone has their opinions & i'm no different so take it with a grain of salt. BUT DON'T SETTLE!!!!!!!!!!! GET WHAT YOU WANT.
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#17

Post by Jordan »

Lungbarrow wrote:I think this sums up my revamped philosophy nicely.



Above all else, THIS is the main reason I even posted my interest here, I knew there would be folks far more unbiased and honest than a sales clerk!

Doc, its funny you mention that about LEOs being perhaps not being the best source for opinions; I hadn't considered your reasoning, but it makes perfect sense. It was my Uncle's (CHP) least favorite tool. Thanks for your input!
Heh, glad I could help. Although, I can't really take credit for that... it's pretty much just a reworded Clint Smith quote :) .
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
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#18

Post by mrsonofagun45 »

Mr. Beanie-Bean is right.I love ALL Glocks and own the 23 and 27.But I almost always carry a kel tec pf9.I would love to say I carry my 23 all the time but its not as easy as it seems.
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#19

Post by Beanie-Bean »

@mrsonofagun45: Excellent choice in Glock! Here is my trusty, old 23, newly-acquired Gen4 27, and Sig P238 next to today's EDC Spyderco (UKPK CF)

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#20

Post by LDB »

How much are you going to train and practice? How are you going to carry? You either have to compromise clothing etc. to seriously and properly carry a real gun or you have to compromise the gun to wear the wrong clothes. If you are going to dress for CCW you can easily carry a standard 1911.

If you are going to practice at least a few times a month and a few more hours a month at home on clearance drills etc. then look at pistols. If you are going to practice a few hours a year go with a revolver. Bang, bang click with a revolver just means squeeze again and you should get a fresh bang. Bang, bang click with a pistol means figure out the problem and correct it before you can do anything.

I'd look at a minimum of a Glock 19. The extra 1/2 inch on both ends makes a world of difference in control and comfort and when carried properly attired makes no difference at all in concealability.
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