Illegal knife confiscation

If your topic has nothing to do with Spyderco, you can post it here.
User avatar
ceya
Member
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am

Postby ceya » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:26 pm

Guys if its NYC, please write NYC. Alot of the craziness is NYC not the whole State.

S/F,
CEYA!
"Stay in the fight because we are Marines and the mission will be complete regardless of degree of difficulty."

by CEYA!

User avatar
The Deacon
Member
Posts: 25353
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Upstate SC, USA
Contact:

Postby The Deacon » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:46 pm

Blerv wrote:There was someone on this forum with a Harpy in NY a while back who had it taken from him. The cop obviously saw the glistening clip.

If I recall his particular story involved a night in jail and $2,000+ in attorney fees. He could have probably saved money on such a charge but most people don't dance with record charges involving weapons.

I could have gotten the story wrong. Even if there's a 5% chance I'll end up in jail I'm not going to risk it. I can carry up to a 3.5" blade. Even if it was 3" that's a serious tool to have on your person.

To each his/her own. I don't screw with the law. I don't want to be made an example for an overzealous LEO or a change in knife policies.
IIRC this happened in the wee small hours of the morning and what initially attracted the officer's attention was two loud people who had obviously been drinking. Not to say what happened afterward was reasonable, but NYC is an anomaly, not the norm for the US, and definitely not the norm for New York State as a whole.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!

User avatar
vampyrewolf
Member
Posts: 7486
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

Postby vampyrewolf » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:05 pm

Personally I suggest knowing the local laws regarding knife carry, and then not dressing or behaving to attract attention.

LEOs are more apt to confront someone who looks like they're gonna cause problems or someone who already is causing problems. Being polite and professional in both your dress and behavior will get you out of a lot.
Coffee before Conciousness
Why do people worry more if you argue with your voices than if you just talk with them? What about if you lose those arguements?
Slowly going crazy at work... they found a way to make the voices work too.

User avatar
Praxis
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:46 pm
Location: Just north of the Beltway

Postby Praxis » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:16 pm

Gotta agree with The Deacon and Vampyrewolf, know your local laws and the laws of anywhere you plan to visit and you should be good. Don't just take someone else's word for it, actually look up the law yourself. LEOs have a busy, demanding job and may not aways be familiar with the nuances of laws about knives. That's why YOU should know 100% what is legal or not.

Also, how you present yourself can be a big factor. I carry a knife visibly clipped in my pocket most days (in VA and MD) and I have never encountered a LEO who asked to see it. If I was publicly drunk and disorderly, or giving off a "danger" vibe, a LEO would probably pay a lot more attention to me and my pocketknife.

User avatar
GTP2K1
Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:09 am
Location: Tampa, FL
Contact:

Postby GTP2K1 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:27 pm

Praxis wrote: Don't just take someone else's word for it, actually look up the law yourself. LEOs have a busy, demanding job and may not aways be familiar with the nuances of laws about knives. That's why YOU should know 100% what is legal or not.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you ever try telling any form of LEO the line of the law? Be they direct quotes or otherwise Ive never ever seen it taken any different than reminding them that taxes pay their salaries.

They simply don't listen intently and thank you for informing them. They roll their eyes don't listen at all and take whatever your complaining about to the next level. You have absolutely no recourse. If your being filmed the camera guy gets arrested and the tape confiscated. If you try to file a complaint you will be discouraged and you better have every detail they ask and even then it goes in the trash the moment you walk out way more often then not. If you tried to do it anonymously you might be arrested (for refusing to show id).

You have to be independently wealthy to live on principal in this country unfortunately.

When dealing with LEO's in any capacity, remain as completely calm as possible, look them in the eye, comply immediately with all instructions to the very best of your ability, and throw in as many respectful Sir's as you can. You can't win when you have no power over interpretation of the law. Try not to cower or show fear while remaining completely compliant. Don't volunteer information that will incriminate and don't mislead.

Which is a pain when they say "Do you have any weapons on you?" even saying "No, I have a tool, a knife" if not done extremely delicately can provoke them to show you how much power they have. The alternative is admission of carrying a weapon, at that point blade length doesn't matter so much.

In summary try not to carry anything that isn't replaceable. An remember its cheaper to buy a new knife then pay for a lawyer. So just hand it over and thank them for their service.
Endura I (First Spydie)
Tenacious (Work)
Para2, Strech II (EDCs)

User avatar
raven
Member
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: South Carolina

Postby raven » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:52 pm

Not all of us LEOs are like that ... There have been several times, I've confiscated a knife and will tell them to come pick it up or I'll deliver it back to them myself. I know the value of many knive, how we love them/have a passion for them and know the pain of having to save money for a particular knife to only have it taken away. Granted, I do have to to take into consideration what the crime is ...if any, but to just confiscate and keep a knife just, because we can ...well, that's just wrong. Now, conficating an automatic from a person that knows better and shouldn't be carrying such a knife ...well the law is the law and I have to enforce it the way the law says. Remember, that's FEDERAL AND STATE LAW and that's what I'm paid to enforce ;) .

I can honestly say, I've never taken/confiscated a knife unless it's been for a serious reason.

Take Good Care and Be Safe Always.

God Bless :)

-raven-
ISAIAH 40:31 But those who wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; They will mount up on wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

No-one can choose your mountain or tell you when to climb... It's yours alone to challenge at your own pace and time.

User avatar
GTP2K1
Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:09 am
Location: Tampa, FL
Contact:

Postby GTP2K1 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:41 pm

I completely agree that not all LEO's are going to be "like that." But all have the power to be. I haven't found a way to look at one and judge if he's like that or not. The way I see it either way you can't go wrong.

We the average joe's are at the mercy of your power, be you an honest, moral man in a uniform or a criminal in a uniform. The former wont take advantage, the latter will. . . if you don't give any reason or resistance you are doing the best you can to limit the damage.

Conversely, assuming the LEO is completely honorable... I would assume he would appreciate a few more respectful compliant citizens while doing his job. No harm no foul in my suggestions to just go with it(whatever it may be) right?
Endura I (First Spydie)
Tenacious (Work)
Para2, Strech II (EDCs)

User avatar
Vincent
Member
Posts: 2947
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 9:34 pm

Postby Vincent » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:13 am

I have only been stopped once for carrying my para in Harlem. The detective was nice, he was undecover, saw the clip and asked me to hand it over, I did. Asked if I had a NY state I.d. on me and I gave it to him because I knew it would be easier to just do so. He commented on the quality of the para, started to spydiedrop it a few times while his partner called in and did a warrant search on my name. Of course it came back clean and he slipped it back in my pocket and told me to get a different knife and conceal it because other officer may not be so nice. I did that and got a FRN UK penknife which has been great so far.

I know that I got lucky in this situation. I have heard far to many horror stories of the NYPD, so that's why I now carry a non locking knife. Just to be safe. Even though that is likely not even safe, so I just keep it concealed.

rosconey
Member
Posts: 769
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:33 pm
Location: syracuse-latin for hell

Postby rosconey » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:25 am

funny story

went to the pinstripe bowl at yankee stadium with by friends-

one guy brian had his cheap knife clipped to his pocket-on the way into the game he gets patted down and they confiscate it-

im next in line,have my 300$ strider pt in my pocket for a money clip- im wearing a pair of carhart insulated over-pants because its cold -

so as i walk up the guard asks me to empty my pockets,i start to take off my over-pants so i can reach into my jeans- :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
guard throws up his hands yells stop what you are doing and just get inside :D

the worst part of all this is a had known from reading around here not to carry my knife in nyc or at least keep it inside the pocket ;)

i feel responsible for brians loss and plan on getting him a replacement

User avatar
Praxis
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:46 pm
Location: Just north of the Beltway

Postby Praxis » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:26 am

GTP2K1 wrote:I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you ever try telling any form of LEO the line of the law? Be they direct quotes or otherwise Ive never ever seen it taken any different than reminding them that taxes pay their salaries.

They simply don't listen intently and thank you for informing them. They roll their eyes don't listen at all and take whatever your complaining about to the next level. You have absolutely no recourse. If your being filmed the camera guy gets arrested and the tape confiscated. If you try to file a complaint you will be discouraged and you better have every detail they ask and even then it goes in the trash the moment you walk out way more often then not. If you tried to do it anonymously you might be arrested (for refusing to show id).

You have to be independently wealthy to live on principal in this country unfortunately.

When dealing with LEO's in any capacity, remain as completely calm as possible, look them in the eye, comply immediately with all instructions to the very best of your ability, and throw in as many respectful Sir's as you can. You can't win when you have no power over interpretation of the law. Try not to cower or show fear while remaining completely compliant. Don't volunteer information that will incriminate and don't mislead.

Which is a pain when they say "Do you have any weapons on you?" even saying "No, I have a tool, a knife" if not done extremely delicately can provoke them to show you how much power they have. The alternative is admission of carrying a weapon, at that point blade length doesn't matter so much.

In summary try not to carry anything that isn't replaceable. An remember its cheaper to buy a new knife then pay for a lawyer. So just hand it over and thank them for their service.
Perhaps I need to clarify my post. A previous posted suggested calling one's local police station to ask about knife legality. In my opinion, that's a mistake since LEO's aren't always familiar with the nuances of the laws on things like pocket knives. Instead, do the research yourself. I'm not saying you should quote the law chapter and verse to an office if he/she wants to confiscate your knife on the street, since that probably won't help much, but at least you will be better informed about the legality of the situation.

User avatar
jackknifeh
Member
Posts: 8412
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:01 am
Location: Florida panhandle

Postby jackknifeh » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 am

Praxis wrote:Perhaps I need to clarify my post. A previous posted suggested calling one's local police station to ask about knife legality. In my opinion, that's a mistake since LEO's aren't always familiar with the nuances of the laws on things like pocket knives. Instead, do the research yourself. I'm not saying you should quote the law chapter and verse to an office if he/she wants to confiscate your knife on the street, since that probably won't help much, but at least you will be better informed about the legality of the situation.
When I decided to buy some better quality knives I did call my local police dept. I live in a small town and you are right. They had no idea what was legal or not, not even blade length. They thought it was funny that someone would call about that since fishing and hunting (and knives) are very popular here. Between the two officers I talked to and myself we decided as long as I didn't go around poking people with any knife I wanted to carry they wouldn't care. That's not to say there aren't laws for my little town. They just aren't enforced as long as there isn't any trouble. In case you were wondering, my town's name is NOT Mayberry. :)

Jack

User avatar
Stephen
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 12:33 pm
Location: Destin, Florida

Postby Stephen » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:14 pm

Jackknifeh, I'm friends with a Walton county sheriffs deputy and he told me a few basic things.

First, you can carry a reasonably size fixed blade unconcealed on your person and most people won't give you any trouble unless it's double edged or it's friggin huge 8"+. One of my friends walks around with a full size Ka-bar on his belt. The only issue we had is when he was asked to leave from a bar/bowling alley/pool hall by the manager. He just asked if they could instead hold onto it until we left and he basically said "Oh, ok, that's fine, I can do that".

Second, you can carry any non-automatic, normal (no balisongs etc) pocket knife concealed up to 4", any bigger is technically not allowed, but if you're minding your own business (i.e. not flashing it around, being loud/belligerent, etc...) something a little bigger generally won't get confiscated or worse. Also, I think this is true but I'm not 100% sure, so don't quote me . If you have a CCW you can carry an automatic knife, they're legal to buy locally or from a Florida based online vendor.

Third, be really polite and cooperative. A no-brainer, but he said when people get even a little defensive it makes you look suspicious.

Forth, if at all possible be active in your local community, get to know people who can vouch for your character. Also I would say that making friends with a few cops certainly doesn't hurt.

Some of this repeats some of the things mentioned by who posted before me, but you get the idea.

Hope this helps some
My :spyder:'s: Tan M4 Manix!, P'kal, Rock Salt, Pink Endura CE, Orange Moran, USN Endura, Bug, Honeybee, FRN Cricket.

User avatar
jackknifeh
Member
Posts: 8412
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:01 am
Location: Florida panhandle

Postby jackknifeh » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:00 am

Stephen wrote:Jackknifeh, I'm friends with a Walton county sheriffs deputy and he told me a few basic things.

First, you can carry a reasonably size fixed blade unconcealed on your person and most people won't give you any trouble unless it's double edged or it's friggin huge 8"+. One of my friends walks around with a full size Ka-bar on his belt. The only issue we had is when he was asked to leave from a bar/bowling alley/pool hall by the manager. He just asked if they could instead hold onto it until we left and he basically said "Oh, ok, that's fine, I can do that".

Second, you can carry any non-automatic, normal (no balisongs etc) pocket knife concealed up to 4", any bigger is technically not allowed, but if you're minding your own business (i.e. not flashing it around, being loud/belligerent, etc...) something a little bigger generally won't get confiscated or worse. Also, I think this is true but I'm not 100% sure, so don't quote me . If you have a CCW you can carry an automatic knife, they're legal to buy locally or from a Florida based online vendor.

Third, be really polite and cooperative. A no-brainer, but he said when people get even a little defensive it makes you look suspicious.

Forth, if at all possible be active in your local community, get to know people who can vouch for your character. Also I would say that making friends with a few cops certainly doesn't hurt.

Some of this repeats some of the things mentioned by who posted before me, but you get the idea.

Hope this helps some
Your description makes sense to me on how things should be. But we don't live in a "should be" world unfortunately. My opinion/desire is that the item carried shouldn't be an issue. Gun, knife, whatever. If someone walks into a bank and robs it using a loaded gun or knife and never fires a shot or hurts anyone he should be considered guilty of attempted murder even if in his heart he knows he never would have actually shot someone. The reason most people don't rob banks is because of the penalty which is punishment. That is my general belief and I hope it is wrong.

Rehabilitation in prison is a completely different issue because the person would want to rehabilitate himself.

This is off the subject or original reason I had a question about confiscation of knives. What I wanted to know basically is can you go to jail just for having an illegal knife or just get a ticket and have it confiscated. Questions like that where the answer would depend on local laws of course. I appreciate everyone's input as I'm sure all do who learned something on the subject. I did.

Jack

CharlesIV
Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:35 am

Postby CharlesIV » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:48 am

Well the golden rule is if you don't want the police to take it don't carry it. Whatever "it" is. My experience with law enforcement is unless you have some sort of video proof its your word against theirs and theirs wins.
I don't know about the rest of you but I have more important thing to do with my time than to find ways to stick it to the "man" or finding creative ways to flip'em the bird with no hands.

User avatar
raven
Member
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: South Carolina

Postby raven » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:17 pm

WOW :eek: ... For as much as we put our lives on the line to protect others ...I didn't know we LEOs were so disliked here???

I hope there are a few that actually respect what we do which includes DAYWALKER, stonyman, Jimd, tonydahose, KaliGman, a few others and myself. I can honestly say that the ones I've mentioned are as HONEST as they come and would never look for a reason to screw over someone. We have a job to do .... SERVE AND PROTECT. That also means not abusing our authority in any capacity. PLEASE Don't Stereotype us and at the very least give us the benefit of the doubt ;) . Take Good Care and Be Safe Always.

God Bless :)


-raven-
ISAIAH 40:31 But those who wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; They will mount up on wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

No-one can choose your mountain or tell you when to climb... It's yours alone to challenge at your own pace and time.

User avatar
SQSAR
Member
Posts: 1196
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:01 am
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado

Postby SQSAR » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:45 pm

Well said sir, well said.

User avatar
Spydesense
Member
Posts: 331
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:13 pm
Location: North Carolina

Postby Spydesense » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:52 pm

Thank you for what you and other LEO's like yourself do. MOST of you are honest and do not abuse your authority, but like any and everything else, their are always bad apples out there.
My :spyder:'s>> Fluited Titanium Millie, M390 Millie, Brad Southard, Gayle Bradley, Junior, Bushcraft UK, Translucent Blue Manix 2, G10 UKPK, Sage 1, Sage 2, Ti Damascus Delica 4, Orange FFG Endura 4, Gray FFG Endura 4,Native, Blk Dragonfly, H1 Dragonfly 2, Blue Tenacious, Tenacious, H1 Ladybug, White Ladybug, Grasshopper, Honeybee and Bug

User avatar
SolidState
Member
Posts: 1749
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:37 pm
Location: Oregon

Postby SolidState » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:23 pm

I've known hundreds of LEOs in my life. I was heavily involved in martial arts and my dad was in corrections for my entire life. There are good and bad, just like with everyone.

The chemistry lab I work in has jerks, as do police stations. Hell, I'm sure there are LEOs that other LEOs don't like... I've seen it first hand. I've had great experiences with good officers and crappy experiences with police officers who do not get along with my father.

I've had some really strange and funny things happen just by knowing my local officers. You would be surprised how boring they can have it one day, and how crazy it can be the next.

I've lost a knife to an officer. It was fair enough. I've also gotten one back by visiting the station a few weeks later.
"Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
Sir Humphry Davy

User avatar
jackknifeh
Member
Posts: 8412
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:01 am
Location: Florida panhandle

Postby jackknifeh » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:44 pm

raven wrote:WOW :eek: ... For as much as we put our lives on the line to protect others ...I didn't know we LEOs were so disliked here???

I hope there are a few that actually respect what we do which includes DAYWALKER, stonyman, Jimd, tonydahose, KaliGman, a few others and myself. I can honestly say that the ones I've mentioned are as HONEST as they come and would never look for a reason to screw over someone. We have a job to do .... SERVE AND PROTECT. That also means not abusing our authority in any capacity. PLEASE Don't Stereotype us and at the very least give us the benefit of the doubt ;) . Take Good Care and Be Safe Always.

God Bless :)


-raven-
Raven, if you think you are disliked here you are mistaken. If this were a perfect world you wouldn't have a job doing what you do. But it isn't a perfect world. We need people like you. I hope you understand this but I hate needing you. I would rather be able to protect myself. This delves into a completely different subject that has been discussed more than I know so I won't continue.

"The law is for the lawless." That may not be an exact quote but it comes from a book you may be familiar with. Just want you to know that LEO's are appreciated in my mind.

Jack

User avatar
spyderHS08
Member
Posts: 1783
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:50 pm
Location: KS, USA, Earth

Postby spyderHS08 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:03 am

Yo Will,

Any forums with a sale section are okay to sell autos and butterfly knives on. You can try bladeforums, knife-bst.com, or the USN. All have good exchange sections, bladeforums probably has the most traffic. I have probably bought/sold/traded about 30 knives on there. Pretty good site all in all. But ill be honest I only go there anymore for the exchange section.
39 & counting...
:spyder: E3, Para mili, Salt 1 PE, Native, D3 OD, Ladybug, UKPK, Dodo, D4, Tasman, Ladybug Salt, Smallfly, Khukuri, Para Military, USN E4, Persistence, Civilian, Yojimbo, Smallfly, Manix 2 CE, Dodo, Military, D4 , Blackhawk, Pac Salt, Military, Manix 2, Captain, Assist, D'fly PE, Spyderhawk SE, Persian, Lum tanto, Warrior, Lil Temp, Tuff, spyderfly, szabofly, :spyder:

Dodo!


Return to “Off-Topic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests