If you are a Backwards Knifer Raise up your Hand

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Dr. Snubnose
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If you are a Backwards Knifer Raise up your Hand

#1

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

I believe it was Ray Floro who termed the expression "Backwards Knifer" to refer to those who like to use the Reverse Grip Edge Inward "Pikal Grip" for SD. If you carry and use a Fixed Bladed Pikal Grip Knife or carry the Spyderco Pikal for SD....Stand up and raise up your hand. If you have any pics of your Pikals post them up now. If you want to get into a discussion about RGEI and the possibility that Sal might consider making a Pikal Fixed Blade, the way Spyderco can make one, express your opinions. What would like like to see in a Spyderco Fixed Blade Pikal Grip Knife....just maybe if there is enough interest...we might be able to interest Spyderco in making just that. I for one would love to see a Spyderco Pikal Fixed Blade in the line up.....Let the discussion begin....
I might have to pull a JD Spydo here...LOL....There is a lot of interest in RGEI fighting techniques, and more and more users on the web stating they use this methodology....more than you think...and the numbers keep growing....and there are many of us that have been using RGEI in our training for years now...so there is a market out there for this type of knife to be made, and many users waiting for a good Pikal fixed blade knife to be made. What says YOU!...Can it be done?....Doc :D
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slice22358
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#2

Post by slice22358 »

Dr. Snubnose wrote: I might have to pull a JD Spydo here...
shhhh don't say his name it calls him back, and seeing as the p'kal is a hawkbill, albeit a very shallow one, he will jump right on it :p then we'll have a whole mess of hawkbill threads popping up lol more on subject, I carry my P'kal almost daily due to its fast deployment and unobtrusiveness. I'm not particularly big on fixed blades, mainly because I have never had one of substantial size and quite frankly wouldn't know how to carry it :o For people with more experience, such as yourself, I'm sure a fixed P'kal would be great, but I for one would stick with the folder
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#3

Post by Donut »

JD has been MIA for a while now. I hope all is well with him.

My comment for the topic is: Won't most fixed blade knives work well with reverse grip?

Does the blade angle need to change? The handle, too?

Maybe we just need a design with more versatility for grip.
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#4

Post by Joe Talmadge »

Backwards knifer -- we're here, we're backwards, get used to it :)
Donut wrote: My comment for the topic is: Won't most fixed blade knives work well with reverse grip?
Neutral handles will usually work in both reverse grips, it's a matter of seeing if the blade is suitable. Handles with finger grooves will usually work with reverse grip edge out, but not edge in
Does the blade angle need to change? The handle, too?
You really don't need to get too fancy. The sheath is as important as anything else -- you need to be able to draw into pikal edge in. There are minor differences in blade philosophy based on system. Ray Floro's guys like a high or mid point, Southnarc's guys like a low point. The current P'kal is definitely a Southnarc knife.
Maybe we just need a design with more versatility for grip.
Plus a sheath that allows a suitable draw. Doesn't need to be much more complicated than that -- though as the P'kal shows, interesting things can be accomplished if you completely ignore regular grip and just optimize for pikal.
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#5

Post by psychophipps »

:mad: And what about us FGEI guys?!? We jus' chopped liver or somethin'? ;)

I like the Pikal grip just fine once I'm in bad breath range or as an off-hand backup draw, but I prefer FGEI methodolgogies as I feel that it gives more powerful thrusting and more variety in techniques.

Back cuts anyone? :cool:
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#6

Post by psychophipps »

The Inverted Edge thing seems to keep building momentum, even to the point of starting to show up outside of dedicated FMA circles, and the Disciple and Clinch Pick from Rinaldi knives sells out fairly quickly each time they get reissued despite the high price point of $240 or so + shipping. It's getting safer and safer to say that there is a reasonable market for this type of blade out there.

I would love to be able to pick up a reasonably-priced Spyderco sprint run of a 7-8" O/A inverted-edge fixed blade.
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#7

Post by stonyman »

Here, here! Yeah I train multiple grips, but deep down my backward thinking is right to me. No,it is not the end all be all, but more folks that are finding there way to the blade are beginning to find some of the advantages of edge in during a NOW moment! I would love spyderco to bring a fixed blade to market.........I should have my new custom full size edge-in knife next week. Will be posting more in this thread! Take care and God Bless! ;)
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#8

Post by yowzer »

slice22358 wrote:shhhh don't say his name it calls him back, and seeing as the p'kal is a hawkbill, albeit a very shallow one, he will jump right on it :p then we'll have a whole mess of hawkbill threads popping up...
You say that like it's a bad thing.
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#9

Post by slice22358 »

yowzer wrote:You say that like it's a bad thing.
Haha not at all! It's just that he has a way of making me really want a knife, and the wallet is already stretched pretty thin :p
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#10

Post by Nonprophet »

My hand is up!
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#11

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

So now...If Spyderco showed interest in making such a knife what would you like to see in blade shape, handle design, type of steel used, handle material, grind? And anything else you might be able to think of, that might suit your needs and or the needs of others......Doc :D
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#12

Post by psychophipps »

I think that a simple design is best. You could easily just take the Mule Team design, shift the blade down to where the spine of the blade is at the end of the choil and turn the convex curve on the back into a slight concave curve that meets at the same point at the end. Full-flat grind it, put on some scales, and you'd be good to go.

A bunch of the design and tooling is already done with that kind of set-up, the design has been tweaked a bit so it's not really a Mulie anymore, and you can keep the costs down by steering clear of the crazy steels that are really hard to machine. Heck, I would be happy with the steel used in that Chinese Mulie as long as the cost savings gets handed down our way.

It's a knife, it cuts things. What else do you want from it?
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#13

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

psychophipps wrote:I think that a simple design is best. You could easily just take the Mule Team design, shift the blade down to where the spine of the blade is at the end of the choil and turn the convex curve on the back into a slight concave curve that meets at the same point at the end. Full-flat grind it, put on some scales, and you'd be good to go.

A bunch of the design and tooling is already done with that kind of set-up, the design has been tweaked a bit so it's not really a Mulie anymore, and you can keep the costs down by steering clear of the crazy steels that are really hard to machine. Heck, I would be happy with the steel used in that Chinese Mulie as long as the cost savings gets handed down our way.

It's a knife, it cuts things. What else do you want from it?
Ay Psychop: Seems simple enough to work, I like the idea...at least this is a way of producing one that might be cost effective for spyderco, and the same for the ELUs....SAL..are you following this thread....the man has a good idea!.....Doc :D
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#14

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

stonyman wrote:Here, here! Yeah I train multiple grips, but deep down my backward thinking is right to me. No,it is not the end all be all, but more folks that are finding there way to the blade are beginning to find some of the advantages of edge in during a NOW moment! I would love spyderco to bring a fixed blade to market.........I should have my new custom full size edge-in knife next week. Will be posting more in this thread! Take care and God Bless! ;)
Ooooh Stonyman, please do post some pics of the RGEI/O Beast...Guys I had a sneak preview of his custom bad boy and it is awesome as is his knife maker...Functional Eye Candy For sure!!!!.....Doc :D
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#15

Post by psychophipps »

You have the option of going with a normal blade held upside down, a folder that still isn't even close to as good as a fixed blade for under-stress deployment, or going with a very limited-run custom for over $350 for the blade and trainer...if you can find them. I've had the money in-hand three different times only to spend it elsewhere because they weren't available. :(

I honestly think that Spyderco could hit a serious home-run with this type of knife if they can make it readily available and for a reasonable price. You look around at all sorts of posts on knife boards about how they would own a Clinch Pick or Disciple if it didn't cost so much and/or was available. Is Sal and crew could get out a small(ish) fixed blade IE knife with decent steel and a nice feel in the hand for around 120-$150 MSRP, they would likely fly off the shelves, even with the collectors (maybe especially with collectors as IE knives look pretty cool). :cool:
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#16

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

psychophipps I took three of your posts and copied and pasted them in a different thread for Sal to read....The discussion continues with Sal in the "Question for Michael Janich and other SD enthusiasts thread in the main section. ...here is what re-posted...... Sal there are three posts made by psychophipps in a thread I started over at off-topic, discussing the issue….thread called “If you’re a Backwards Knifer Raise your Hand” I posted his three replies here for your convince because to me they make a lot of sense….so here goes: “The Inverted Edge thing seems to keep building momentum, even to the point of starting to show up outside of dedicated FMA circles, and the Disciple and Clinch Pick from Rinaldi knives sells out fairly quickly each time they get reissued despite the high price point of $240 or so + shipping. It's getting safer and safer to say that there is a reasonable market for this type of blade out there.

I would love to be able to pick up a reasonably-priced Spyderco sprint run of a 7-8" O/A inverted-edge fixed blade.

I think that a simple design is best. You could easily just take the Mule Team design, shift the blade down to where the spine of the blade is at the end of the choil and turn the convex curve on the back into a slight concave curve that meets at the same point at the end. Full-flat grind it, put on some scales, and you'd be good to go.

A bunch of the design and tooling is already done with that kind of set-up, the design has been tweaked a bit so it's not really a Mulie anymore, and you can keep the costs down by steering clear of the crazy steels that are really hard to machine. Heck, I would be happy with the steel used in that Chinese Mulie as long as the cost savings gets handed down our way.

It's a knife, it cuts things. What else do you want from it?

You have the option of going with a normal blade held upside down, a folder that still isn't even close to as good as a fixed blade for under-stress deployment, or going with a very limited-run custom for over $350 for the blade and trainer...if you can find them. I've had the money in-hand three different times only to spend it elsewhere because they weren't available.

I honestly think that Spyderco could hit a serious home-run with this type of knife if they can make it readily available and for a reasonable price. You look around at all sorts of posts on knife boards about how they would own a Clinch Pick or Disciple if it didn't cost so much and/or was available. Is Sal and crew could get out a small(ish) fixed blade IE knife with decent steel and a nice feel in the hand for around 120-$150 MSRP, they would likely fly off the shelves, even with the collectors (maybe especially with collectors as IE knives look pretty cool). “
The rest of you backwards knifers join the disucssion in the Main section....
All of the above has been copied and pasted from posts made by psychophipps

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#17

Post by Michael Cook »

:spyder: I train a bit of rgei tactics as I believe in being well rounded and it is very effective. I primarily train MBC because it's simple, effective, oriented around stopping the attack as fast as possible and to me most importantly it can be justified in court.
I don't want some bed wetting liberal DA talking about black belts and horrific defensive wounds so I stay away from RGEI. In Madison it's all too easy to win on the street and loose in court.
I do teach RGEI to my girlfriend however, she isn't as interested in the time commitment for complex skill development and RGEI's convulsive edge driven approach is easily learned and applied. RGEI is also pretty hard to counter without a good skill set.
I'm not as concerned about my girlfriend in court, she's small, smart very pretty and doesn't go into bars, she's also aware of how to articulate herself in court. :spyder:
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#18

Post by Grego77 »

Image
Image

I would DEFINATELY be on board for a fixed blade Pikal design, I have some formal training under my belt (meaning a little) but have become increasingly interested in not only RGEI tactics but the Pikal/Shivworks style as a whole. I have two Spyderco P'Kal models...little pricey, as I bought them brand new, but just had to have a spare LOL.
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#19

Post by Piercieve »

I used to carry my waved endura so it would draw into a pikal grip.
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#20

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

Piercieve wrote:I used to carry my waved endura so it would draw into a pikal grip.
Same way I carry mine!!!....Doc :D
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