Legal Balisong?

casey1 · #1

The mantis bottleneck knife series claims to be legal in all 50 states... does this mean carrying everywhere or just to own? They sell a single-edge and double-edge model, but the blade is very small... I'm confused! Thanks so much. just want a cheap balisong with good construction and if anyone else has a better model please let me know. thanks!

The Deacon · #2

Let's just say that, in the past, Mantis has made claims which they could not substantiate. I would be inclined to think anything with a sharpened edge which meets the description of a butterfly knife would run afoul of the laws regarding legal carry somewhere in the USA.

casey1 · #3

Ok... thanks. I emailed the president and he says that it's because of the blade length that the knives are legal. It's 1.99 inches. He says that all the Mantis employees carry one in CA and they have no problem because of the length. When a knife is double-edged, does it double the blade length? Like would a 2" knife would be 4"?

ChrisR · #4

I've never heard of 2 edges doubling the "length" of the blade ... sounds unlikely to me. But I would be very cautious about the claims made by some knife companies - and just because someone tells you they carry a knife and they never had any problems doesn't mean anything. Maybe the person never got stopped and searched by the police?

The knife might be legal, it might not but if it looks illegal to your average LEO you're storing up trouble. I go with the old maxim - if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... then it's a duck :rolleyes: Also, you might know a good, free lawyer who is willing to help you prove that the knife is legal in a court of law - but do you really want the hassle? By all means own one and enjoy it - but carrying a potentially illegal knife is a whole different kettle of fish.

The Deacon · #5

casey1 wrote:Ok... thanks. I emailed the president and he says that it's because of the blade length that the knives are legal. It's 1.99 inches. He says that all the Mantis employees carry one in CA and they have no problem because of the length. When a knife is double-edged, does it double the blade length? Like would a 2" knife would be 4"?

No, the blade length would be 2". However it would make the knife illegal to carry where I live in NYS. Even though balisongs are legal carry here double edged blades, regardless of length, are not. FWIW, switchblades under 2" are legal in California while those over 2" are not, but that does not mean sub 2" switchblades are legal in other states where switchblades are banned.

Blerv · #6

I would get your law facts from your local LEO's instead of the knife maker. There is the printed law and there is the interpretation of the law.

Then there is the maker who often makes generalized statements based on speculation or older rules. They aren't attorneys nor will stand up for you in court. :)

In general Balisongs are illegal as are automatic knives. So are nunchucks and throwing stars. Gotta love 1980's archaic laws based on stereotyped gang activity.

Jordan · #7

The double edged version at least would be illegal in Texas as well. All knives with more than one inch of the edge on both sides sharpened are considered daggers. Including balisongs into the definition of switchblades is widely practiced, but based on the misconception that balisongs are gravity knives... which they aren't. In Texas though, precedent is on the side of the people who disagree with me... so such is life. I wouldn't carry it expecting the manufacturers claims to prove out, or really at all... that thing is pretty ugly.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't skimp on balisongs. Just save your pennies and go for the good stuff. And then play with it at home and acknowledge that you will probably never get to carry it around with you. It's tough, I know, but you will survive. :-P

PS... Spyderco knives are actually more accurately classified as gravity knives than balisongs... **** NKP legislators...

MCM · #8

Or you could save $10.00 and just carry one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/MAGLITE-S6D016-He ... B000056BME

Who would win?

Jordan · #9

MCM wrote:Or you could save $10.00 and just carry one of these.
http://www.amazon.com/MAGLITE-S6D016-He ... B000056BME

Who would win?

Lol, nice... of course, it'd probably be easier to conceal a cricket bat on your person, but I've found that few of those double as flashlights. :-P

Creepo · #10

Sorry it's a bit long but seriously read it. :D

1. As everyone else has already said, when talking legal matters din't listen to the marketing BS some knife companies spew out, they're just trying to sell the product. In these matters only trust lawyers, local LEO and actual law text (that is if you actually understand it). If you still plan to get one, don't carry it without confirming the legality from a local LEO.
What state do you live in BTW?

2. It's an ok keychain knife, and an ok bottle opener, but it is bulky as **** on your keys. If you want a keychain knife Spyderco has a lot to choose from (Bug, Honeybee, Grasshopper, Ladybug) also for bottle openers you can get something a lot smaller than that.

3. If you want a balisong to flip, get a REAL balisong. Even balisongs with a 3" blade are already kinda awkward, and the Bottleneck is even smaller. And for the price I doubt it'll last long.

Jordan wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again, don't skimp on balisongs. Just save your pennies and go for the good stuff. And then play with it at home and acknowledge that you will probably never get to carry it around with you. It's tough, I know, but you will survive. :-P

What he said! Cheap balisongs fall apart eventually, even the "better" chinese balisongs generate some problems over time. I know, bali's are expensive but it is totally worth it to invest in a good balisong once, rather than invest 30$ on bad ones that fall apart time after time. Currently the "cheapest" quality balisong is the Bradley Kimura, they can be found from most online dealers that stock balisongs for about 80-90$, believe me that's not too bad for what you're getting. Again check your local legalities before you buy anything.

4. If normal balisongs really are illegal where you live, either forget about it completely or get a Baliyo, it's basicly a balisong pen, really addictive and 100% legal everywhere since it's a pen, duh. I have 2 and carry and flip them PUBLICLY every now and then. :D

If you have any more questions, just reply or shoot me a PM.

THG · #11

It depends on the state. In CA, a switchblade is only legally defined as a switchblade if it has a blade greater than 2 inches. A switchblade under 2 inches is legal in CA.

Check your state and local laws.

casey1 · #12

Thanks! Live in CO by the way. Maybe I'll get a baliYo and have fun with that while saving up. Are those fun? thanks so much for the help[LEFT][/LEFT]

casey1 · #13

also i go to a school where 3" is the blade length limit to have on campus... so i need a good cheap 3" balisong... and the spyderfly mini looks sick but it is kinda not cheap... so what should I do? and is it important to get a usa made baliyo?

Creepo · #14

casey1 wrote:Thanks! Live in CO by the way. Maybe I'll get a baliYo and have fun with that while saving up. Are those fun? thanks so much for the help[LEFT][/LEFT]

casey1 wrote:also i go to a school where 3" is the blade length limit to have on campus... so i need a good cheap 3" balisong... and the spyderfly mini looks sick but it is kinda not cheap... so what should I do? and is it important to get a usa made baliyo?

I'm not an expert as far as legalities go but I think balisongs are illegal in CO. (I have been wrong in this subject before so someone correct/confirm this please). The law mentions "gravity knives", sometimes balisongs are included in that definition, sometimes not. I would confirm this from a creditable source before getting anything. Give your local police department a call and they will give you a definite answer.

As far as Baliyos go, yes I highly suggest the american made Baliyo, the chinese is made of inferior plastic and seems to crack and break more easily than the american made. And yes Baliyo's are fun, they are light but you get used to the weight and you can do several tricks as you can with a real balisong. I recommend you check a few reviews and videos out on YouTube. :) Review & Demonstration
+ You can carry and flip them in school without getting in trouble. :D
(Just don't do it in class, you don't wanna give such an addictive toy to a teacher.

)

The Deacon · #15

Creepo wrote:I'm not an expert as far as legalities go but I think balisongs are illegal in CO. (I have been wrong in this subject before so someone correct/confirm this please). The law mentions "gravity knives", sometimes balisongs are included in that definition, sometimes not. I would confirm this from a creditable source before getting anything. Give your local police department a call and they will give you a definite answer.

I believe the only balisongs that are illegal to own in Colorado are ones that can be locked in the open position and that's the primary reason why the latches on Spyderco's balisongs only ever worked to lock the knife closed. Don't know if the latches on the Mantis, or the Bradley which has been mentioned in this thread work in both the closed and open positions or not although some photos I've seen of the Bradley make me think it might. AFAIK the latches on most, if not all, Benchmade balis do allow the knife to be locked open and thus would not be legal to own in CO.

casey1 · #16

So I can carry a small spyderfly? Sweet. The definition of a "knife" is something that is over 3.5 inches, so i don't think i'd have a problem anyways... but i don't know.

Creepo · #17

The Deacon wrote:Don't know if the latches on the Mantis, or the Bradley which has been mentioned in this thread work in both the closed and open positions or not although some photos I've seen of the Bradley make me think it might. AFAIK the latches on most, if not all, Benchmade balis do allow the knife to be locked open and thus would not be legal to own in CO.

So far the only balisongs that DON'T LOCK OPEN are the ones from Spyderco, all BM's, Bradleys and Bottlenecks lock closed.

casey1 wrote:So I can carry a small spyderfly? Sweet. The definition of a "knife" is something that is over 3.5 inches, so i don't think i'd have a problem anyways... but i don't know.

Well it seems ok for you to get it now, BUT seriously, I wouldn't risk getting a 100$ knife confiscated just 'cause you thought it was legal, especially since they are discontinued. Before you start carrying it, verify from the local PD that you can carry it, it's for your own good and the phone call/trip to the office won't cost you as much as a new knife. :)

The Deacon · #18

Creepo wrote:Well it seems ok for you to get it now, BUT seriously, I wouldn't risk getting a 100$ knife confiscated just 'cause you thought it was legal, especially since they are discontinued. Before you start carrying it, verify from the local PD that you can carry it, it's for your own good and the phone call/trip to the office won't cost you as much as a new knife. :)

True, and the other "fly in the ointment" would be the idiotic ruling by the Federal 10th Circuit Court, which has jurisdiction in Colorado that balisongs are covered by the Federal Switchblade Act and can only be legal sold to LEOs and Military personnel. So, even if he wasn't breaking state law, he'd be in at least technical violation of the Federal one. :rolleyes: Makes your brain hurt, doesn't it.