Alcohol and Knives don't mix

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Dr. Snubnose
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Alcohol and Knives don't mix

Postby Dr. Snubnose » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:16 am

Interesting little story that happened at work last weekend. I came to work pretty late at night last friday to mop clean and wax my Kung Fu studio's floors in preparation for Satuday's classes. My studio is in a strip mall between a Pizza place and a local Tavern. A few people were standing out front (Tavern patrons), one fellow approached me as I was opening up and asked about the knives that I sell in the store, and asked to see what I had for sale. I let him in. He told me that he collected knives which led to a twenty minute discussion about knives he collected. The young man (say about 27 yrs. of age) was extremely nice and we had a most pleasant conversation. I found out that he own a local beer distributorship and was bar hopping looking for business. He pulled a very nice Mini-Griptillian (Benchmade) that was clipped to his pocket to show me. He then left and went back into the bar next store. BTW the bar next store is a pretty docile place, mostly old people from the neighborhood, never any problems there. The bar closed so this young man and two of his friends went to another bar down the block, about 1/4 mile away. I don't know the complete details, but somehow he manage to make a few people mad (I think) and outside the bar in the parking lot three men attacked him and proceeded to kick and stomp him into the earth. I imagine for fear of his own life he managed to pull his pocket knife and slash the attackers in their legs and ankles. No thrusts or cuts were above the groin level, which says to me that his defenses came from the ground. There was blood all over the place...lots of it, seems he cut one of the attackers femoral artery. He did leave the scene after the attack but police caught up with him and arrested him...Guess he will now have to prove a case of self-defense....Interesting his two friend just sat at the bar and acted like they were not this guys friends. Bottom line is...Stay out of Bars....you never know when someone or someones have had just one too many and are looking to make trouble.... Funny I heard one person today say, as another recounted the story of the attack, he said I wonder why that guy took an illegal knife into the bar...I had to say something, firstly it was not an illegal knife,secondly it probably saved his life.....Once again I don't know what precipitated the attack and I don't know who was in the right or in the wrong cause I wasn't there...that's for the Police, and Courts to figure out....all I was saying was in this incident the knife seemed to work effectively against his three attackers, so he was able to walk away, survive and tell us side of the story to authorities....Once again I'll say..it's probably better to avoid a situation like this to begin with....if it does happen like this situation, stay if you can for the police, in many jurisdictions, just flight from the scene seems to indicate some sort of guilt...Doc :D
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Postby ConsummateProfessional » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:15 am

Come on now, I don't think we can blame this on the bar. Bars are innocent bystanders.

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Postby HotSoup » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:21 am

F***
He shouldn't have left the scene. He should have ran to safety, then called 911 and explained what happened.

At least he was able to defend himself somewhat well. Its unfortunate that some people don't know how to control themselves with alcohol.

All around an unfortunate turn of events.

At least I know, even a 3 inch-blade like the Grip can serve well in SD.

That being said, it doesn't make me feel like bars are bad places. This can happen anywhere. All you need is good judgment and a little prudence and you'll be fine. I love nothing better than a drink at the pub.

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Postby Dr. Snubnose » Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:41 am

ConsummateProfessional wrote:Come on now, I don't think we can blame this on the bar. Bars are innocent bystanders.
No we can't blame this on the bar....what I am saying is if you choose to be armed with a knife or even a firearm, that it is a big responsibility. If you choose to get hammered how can you be of right mind to take on that responsibility. In some states laws I know that just having consumed alcohol, does not allow one to plead a case of self defense regardless if you are in the right.....something to think about...maybe I should have said don't go drinking with your arsenal...kinda of said it in my thread title....Doc :D
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Postby SUDS » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:57 pm

aw, sounds to me like he was in the right. but who knows, and leaving the scene wasn't to good of an idea, he gonna get alot of heat for that.
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Postby ConsummateProfessional » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Dr. Snubnose wrote:No we can't blame this on the bar....what I am saying is if you choose to be armed with a knife or even a firearm, that it is a big responsibility. If you choose to get hammered how can you be of right mind to take on that responsibility. In some states laws I know that just having consumed alcohol, does not allow one to plead a case of self defense regardless if you are in the right.....something to think about...maybe I should have said don't go drinking with your arsenal...kinda of said it in my thread title....Doc :D
Thanks for clarifying.

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Postby Zendemic » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:13 pm

I'm no expert with knife laws but generally it looks very bad if one fights with a knife another person (or people) who are un-armed. That being said cuts on the legs should show that he was defending himself on the ground. As for blood all over the place, you can make a room look like a slaughter house with less than half a litre so it's not a really good gauge of how bad the injuries were...

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Postby The Deacon » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:44 pm

SUDS wrote:aw, sounds to me like he was in the right. but who knows, and leaving the scene wasn't to good of an idea, he gonna get alot of heat for that.
I don't know. Assuming his three opponents were not all laying dead, he could argue that sticking around would have put him at risk of further attack.
ClusterFlux wrote:I'm no expert with knife laws but generally it looks very bad if one fights with a knife another person (or people) who are un-armed. That being said cuts on the legs should show that he was defending himself on the ground. As for blood all over the place, you can make a room look like a slaughter house with less than half a litre so it's not a really good gauge of how bad the injuries were...
The general rule is that you're allowed to used deadly physical force if you reasonably believe your life is in danger. In my non-professional opinion, someone down on the ground, being pummeled by three people could reasonably believe that.
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Postby psychophipps » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:49 pm

The Deacon wrote:I don't know. Assuming his three opponents were not all laying dead, he could argue that sticking around would have put him at risk of further attack.

The general rule is that you're allowed to used deadly physical force if you reasonably believe your life is in danger. In my non-professional opinion, someone down on the ground, being pummeled by three people could reasonably believe that.
Well put! The idea that people find that getting your ribs (protecting the bulk of your vital organs) and head (protecting the largest and most sensitive part of your CNS) kicked in by three men standing over you isn't the very definition of "up to your neck in it" completely mystifies me. I mean, really. What about the idea of that scenario strikes anyone as, "No man, it's all good. You're going to come out of this A-Ok. No worries!" :rolleyes:

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Postby Agent Starling » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:21 am

True that...I know that murders have happened near/outside of bars in a very trendy part of my metro area...guns + alcohol + 2 guys arguing over 1 girl = homicide (1 guy shot the other) outside a trendy bar a couple of years ago...very sad, indeed.

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Postby HistoricalMan » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:20 am

This reminds me of a story a friend recalled a while back.

Her brother somehow managed to anger a fellow bar patron and they both ended up duking it out outside of the bar. As the fight progressed, they both drew their blades and started to grapple. The brother then somehow managed to swap blades with the guy and was eventually stabbed in the leg with his own knife!

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Postby jackknifeh » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:37 am

More than likely the biggest problem was the alcohol. I love to drink with friends and most others. Aclohol can make some act differently than otherwise in any situation. It's like being in love with a woman who is a "female dog" after drinking. A wonderful person most times but at other times is not so wonderful. Of course guys are great all the time. Right girls?

Anyway, add weapons to the mix will always be dangerous. I had a friend years ago who when he drank he became a different person. Completely different, every time. It was amazing and no he wasn't a better person.

I thought this thread was going to be about drinking and accidents with knives when I opened it. I've been guilty of having a beer or two when working around the house with all kinds of power tools and sharp things. I did cut myself accidentally once because I'd had a couple too many. I've cut myself stone sober also but this time was rediculous.

Jack


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