Shotgun or Handgun for home defense?

[grunt0331]

...Pitbull and Rhodesian Ridgeback. if those fail (very unlikely), it's a Beretta PX4 40 and several years of CQB training and application. bring it and good luck.


do not ever assume that the sound of a round chambering will have any effect on the "perps" decision making process, or lack thereof. if you have your weapon loaded and at the ready, then most likely the **** is very close to the fan. a step in the wrong direction will cost you your life.

[Jimd]

My first weapon will be my Glock 19. If I need something more potent, then my AR-15 comes out to play.

Why the AR-15? Isn't that overkill?! No, and I'll tell you why.

Because the 5.56mm rounds penetrate less in common building materials than most pistol rounds.

Even the beloved buckshot or birdshot from a shotgun will penetrate household walls, despite common beliefs. What's more, the "accuracy" that most people love with their shotguns is a fallacy.

Why? Because at room distances, that shotgun's pattern doesn't open up and makes one ragged hole. Same as a rifle. There is no spread, no accuracy advantage.

Believe me, I've used a shotgun extensively (not by choice, but because that's what was issued to my team) for CQB. In confined areas, they are clumsy, unwieldy, and offer absolutely no more accuracy than any other shoulder-fired arm. What they do offer is extreme muzzle blast and recoil in confined spaces, along with being difficult to maneuver.

What's by my bedside, within my reach at night? A flashlight and my Emerson CQC-8. I have a small child in the house, so keeping loaded firearms laying around is out of the question; they're locked in the gunsafe.

I consider my very first line of defense to be our four very alert dogs to let me know if the boogey-man comes a-callin'. Once the've done their job, then the toys come out.

[JBE]

followed by the barrel end of my Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm... hopefully both wont be needed.

I'm really liking those M&P 9's...just trying to justify to my wife that I "need" another pistol... :p

My choice....9mm semiauto with hollow points...

I keep a Ruger SR-9 loaded up with 17 rounds of 115-grain Hornady Critical Defense ammo...I also have a Streamlight TLR-3 on the rail beneath the barrel...I like lights on my defense guns...Helps keep a hand free if I need it...

As far as shotgun for home defense...12 ga WILL very readily go through sheetrock in close quarters...Take a piece of sheetrock outside, step about 5-10 yards back (typical close quarters range) and let it rip...You'll wind up with a very large hole in the sheetrock...not ideal for confined home-defense in the house. Also, your typical shotgun is much less maneuverable. I have a co-worker who is a firearms expert...his choice for home defense? A Mossberg 500 HS410...That's right - a .410. His reasoning? Much less chance of over-penetration than a 12 ga or 20 ga with almost the up-close knock down power of a .357 magnum. It is almost much easier for his wife to shoot to shoot and handle.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Remington 870...Doc :D

[SlideTechnik]

They say you should only use your pistol to fight your way to your shotgun.

[JLS]

I see people recommending pumping the shotgun to scare someone away all the time. This may or may not work, but I certainly wouldn't rely on it.

I would offer the opinion that turning on the lights would be as effective as racking the action on a shotgun. Criminals don't want to get shot, but if they're coming around in the dark, they also don't want to be seen or ID'ed.

In either case, you'd better be prepared to put rounds on target until the threat is diminished. Also, if you're preparing to defend your home with a shotgun and shooting it on targets, you'll realize quickly that you still have to aim to hit with a shotgun. Unless you live in a large house with a very open floor plan, straight line distances within a home rarely exceed 50 feet. Shoot a cylinder bore shotgun at paper at 50 feet and tell me how much spread you have.

This is something that each person ought to do that is planning on defending their home. Measure the longest engagement distance in your home and the likely engagement distances in your home and practice accordingly.

I encourage everyone that shoots to compete. Don't go to win; go to learn. You'll definitely learn a bit of how you react under stress. No it's not the same stress that you'll likely be under in a potentially lethal encounter, but the timer induces a lot of good stress. You may even learn things like a revolver CAN and WILL jam. And you'll be better off for the experience. Even if you only go once, please go.

[Lord vader]

There are good posts here and very informative,and I agree with a lot of what some of you are saying. I did some testing with my shotgun at measured distances similar to distances in the home,at 10 to 15 feet on the average my shot pattern does not exceed 3 inches in diameter, I feel that this gives me favorable advantage of hitting vital organs than using a hand gun with an entrance hole of no more than a quarter of an inch, a handgun requires more aiming skills.I`m not trying to change anyone`s mind or change anyone`s preference`s.I feel if an individual is proficient at using a shotgun in close quarters, will be just as good as someone using a handgun with the same skill level.

[2cha]

Also, if you're preparing to defend your home with a shotgun and shooting it on targets, you'll realize quickly that you still have to aim to hit with a shotgun.

I respectfully disagree. In my experience, you have to "point" to hit with a shotgun, not aim. I point my shotguns at small moving targets 25 yards or more yards away and hit them much more often than not. Anything within the 50 feet you mention turns to dust--without aiming. I don't think there's a chance that I'd hit those targets with a pistol, although there are certainly some few who can. I've taken many inexperienced shooters shotgunning. For example, when I took my son for the first time when he was 10--using a Remington 1100 in 28ga--the first thing I told him to do was to naturally point at and follow the clay birds with his hand. I put the shotgun in his hand. He destroyed his first two birds--by pointing, not aiming.



I suppose the same can more or less be said about SD pistol shooting under 5 yds.--point, don't aim.

[Jordan]

Never count on a firearm being intimidating... people often aren't as frightened as you might think of them. For instance, in Iraq, the locals aren't the least bit worried about the M4 or the M16. Rifles are common, people don't think of them as exceptionally dangerous items by and large. I've seen a man with a barrel flush to his forehead continue to argue during a checkpoint search without missing a beat. Bout the same for shotguns, you can rack them all day without getting any significant response sometimes. Pull an M9 out on the other hand, and everyone begins to cooperate. Turns out, in previous regimes, a pistol in the open often indicated that an execution was about to take place. Taking that into account, if the US Army was in the game of scaring people into submission... we'd all be packing 9 mm handguns. That, however, isn't the case... we are in the business of killing the enemies of the United States of America, so we carry the far more dangerous carbine on our persons. It doesn't need to be scary to potential enemy combatants... it needs to be reliable and accurate... which it is (and I really don't mean to start a "thing" about the reliability of the M16 family of weapons by saying that... suffice it to say, I've kept my own personal weapon well-maintained and never experienced a single failure to feed, fire, extract, or eject... which is pretty good considering the quality of magazine and round issued to me).

Point being, choose your personal defense weapon for its lethality... not for its intimidation factor. Every time you trigger a fight or flight reflex in the enemy, you run the risk of having him choose fight. That's when you have to be ready to pull the trigger.

Diatribe concluded... moving right along :-P

I'm with 2cha. The shotgun is an all around easier weapon with which to engage a target in close quarters, furthermore, whether the shot has time to separate or not, you are pushing dozens of projectiles into your opponent when you fire instead of one... that increases the odds substantially of inflicting enough damage to kill or incapacitate the bg if you do hit them.

The guy responsible for the Fort Hood shootings took at least 4 rounds center mass, and he was up and talking a day or two later. He won't be walking anywhere anytime soon... or ever... but I think that illustrates the ineffectiveness of the handgun as a man stopper, particularly the 9mm handgun, particularly with ball ammo. I've never heard of anyone who took four rounds of double aught center mass and lived to talk about it... for that matter, I can't say I've heard of anyone whose taken one round of buckshot to the chest and walked away... or wheeled away, I guess. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I'm sure it has, but I hear about lots of gsw stories... and that particular one has never come up.

As far as malfunctions... all machines break or just go wonky on you for a second every now and again. The more complex the machine, the more likely it is to malfunction. If you want a weapon that will never malfunction... get a baseball bat. If that breaks, it just becomes two sharpened sticks :-P. That said, if you keep your equipment clean and well maintained, it will be there for you when it counts. I wouldn't say that reducing complexity (i.e. opting for a revolver over an automatic, a pump shotgun over an auto loader) is a bad idea... I am a revolver and pump guy myself, as it happens :) . But, if you aren't a terrific pistol shot and you don't have a lot of time to practice... six rounds probably won't do it for you in the dark at 3 AM. 20 on the other hand, well, you are playing with the law of averages at that point... at least one of them is likely to find its way into the bad guy. If you aren't real familiar with guns in general, having to pump in between shots isn't going to be second nature and you'll lose time if you need the follow up round... once an autoloader has a round in the pipe, all you have to do is pull the trigger till it goes click.

[JLS]

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, but there's a big difference between a 1 1/8 oz. load of 7 1/2 shot on a trap/skeet range and a 9 pellet load of 00 buckshot in your hallway at 2 am.

"Aim" was perhaps the wrong word, as you should "point" a shotgun. However, that does change a bit when your loading in the shotshell changes.

You aren't swinging onto a target moving in a consistent direction at a constant rate of speed like in trap/skeet. And if you're defending your home, you're also having a really bad day and the adrenaline is pumping.

I figure there's a reason that shotguns intended to hunt with buckshot and "tactical" shotguns that are meant to shoot buckshot and slugs have either rifle or ghost ring sights on them. They're no longer "pointing" as much as "aiming".

My main uses for a shotgun are defensive in nature. I haven't hunted with a shotgun in about 15 years and I rarely shoot clays more than twice a year. Therefore, my outlook is unique and far from standard.

This is a wonderful discussion that is brining up lots of good points and I think everyone here is learning something.

[kbuzbee]

With that reality in heart and mind, guns are stored in a locked cabinet. My shotguns are stored in gun safe at vacation home. If I get one here, I'd "need" to buy another gun cabinet and negotiate a place with my wife to put it.

Wall safes are a great option. Push button lock and you can mount it "kinda" out of sight. I always keep something large and sharp by the bed in case I can't access the wall safe quickly enough (right now it's a small granfors bruk axe ;-) but the wall safe only takes 2 secs to open so...

Ken

[Blerv]

How close do your neighbors live?

That should narrow your choices. 90% of the folks prob should stick to rounds that don't penetrate multiple walls. Usually these rounds have stopping power to boot for bonus points.

That said, my pick alway goes to the half-blind grumpy pitbull named "Chompy"

[Streamer]

In my home situated on the outskirts, I could care less about wall penetration.

I have many handguns, but choose a shotgun for home defense.

It's brutal, unforgiving, and will admirably protect from intruders. It also inspires more confidence (to me) than any handgun I own.

Wall penetrations? Just may have to take on a raving maniac hiding behind a wall some day.

[Blerv]

In my home situated on the outskirts, I could care less about wall penetration.

I have many handguns, but choose a shotgun for home defense.

It's brutal, unforgiving, and will admirably protect from intruders. It also inspires more confidence (to me) than any handgun I own.

Wall penetrations? Just may have to take on a raving maniac hiding behind a wall some day.

Great points :)

Perhaps I should have said "multiple houses", Lol. Nothing wrong with going through a wall...just a dozen or so in a suburban neighborhood can be a sad thing.

As you mentioned I would imagine a 12 gauge being one of the worlds few "fight stoppers". They are definitely confidence inspiring.

[tanrichguy]

Ten ga. coach gun AND pistol with frangible ammo for inside the home. It's whichever I can get to faster.

Quark flashlight set for strobe and laser on the pistol too.

[chuck_roxas45]

I live in an area with a high population density so I would go with my combat elite or my glock if I have to deal with someone inside the house. With a lot of corners, I need to be able to execute my plan of slicing the pie with a light in my weak hand. I have done a lot of dry runs with a pump and a handgun and it's just more convenient for me to use a handgun inside. I also shoot IPSC and/or IDPA almost every weekend with a handgun.

Outside the house is another matter.

[ghostrider]

Didn't feel like reading every post.

Shotgun is king at handgun distance. That said, there are always going to be exceptions.

JimD makes a lot of good points, as do others.

My shotgun shoots it's buck shot with a three to five-inch spread at the distance my abode requires. I have preplanned fields of fire, and am aware of where I can, and will need to shoot. Low recoil buck and the tight pattern minimize any misses that may penetrate to undesirable areas, which is just as much a possibility with hand gun rounds providing it isn't something like Glasser's.

I also agree with Jim that the AR is an excellent choice provide it's loaded with the right rounds. Breaks up quick, and less mass makes for less inertia.

Everyone has to figure out what will work best for them (just like knives). In this case that means range time. Besides, if you haven't put 200 rounds through your pump, then your neglecting it.

Regardless of which weapon suits your personal needs best, owning a good pump and becoming proficient with it are beneficial. Get a good quality pump gun then Buy Ammo, Use Up, Repeat (BAUUR). By the time you break the gun in, you should be pretty comfortable with you abilities to employ it.

Either way, there are way too many variables to have someone on the net decide for you. Will the wife also be using this firearm? and if so will it fit her (very important for shotguns)? What's the plan, and how does the specific firearm fit into that plan? Are children involved? How great is risk of by standers getting injured (often associated with range time). The list is longer, but these are just examples.

[Billy]

Great stuff here everyone and although I have yet to get my shotty for the home (I rely on my EDC Glock G-36 for carry and home protection at the moment), I am also a firm believer in the effectiveness of a good scattergun for HD.

With that said, I grew up hunting with a 12 ga. SxS and have been eyeing the Stoeger coach gun (http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firear ... h_guns.php) for it's size, familiarity and sheer simplicity in a HD scenario. Of course, my other top choice would be a Mossberg 500, preferably in a cruiser setup.

With the coach gun, the limiting factor is obviously capacity with the plus side being simplicity and possibly a quicker second round down range.

Pretty sure I know what the answers will be, but I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the SxS as a home defense weapon vs a good pump.

[2cha]

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, but there's a big difference between a 1 1/8 oz. load of 7 1/2 shot on a trap/skeet range and a 9 pellet load of 00 buckshot in your hallway at 2 am.


This is a wonderful discussion that is brining up lots of good points and I think everyone here is learning something.

Agree on all counts. I enjoy sharing opinions.

That being said. I'd be perfectly willing to bet my life on 1 1/8 oz loads at any distance inside of 25 yards.
I'll go even further and say that if I acquired a shotgun for home defense, I'd likely get a 20 ga. 5/8 oz. of lead or steel will slow down absolutely anyone long enough for my second shot. My older son and my wife can both handle the smaller bore. It doesn't kick nearly as much as payload would suggest, kicks profoundly less than a 12 ga., making a second shot on target very quick.

According to defense guru Massad Ayoob (http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html)
20 gauge in standard loads sends 5/8 oz of lead downtown at 1500 feet per second.
20 gauge #3 buckshot = 20, 1/4 inch pellets--traveling at 1500 feet per second--that's more potent than sending off 20 .22 rounds, and having all of them land in an area the size of a saucer. Why would I need or want magnum loads if I can deliver that kind of punishment with around half the recoil of a standard 12 ga. (not even talking magnum loads), and less chance of killing my neighbors in a gun that even small people can effectively shoot?

[Lord vader]

Great stuff here everyone and although I have yet to get my shotty for the home (I rely on my EDC Glock G-36 for carry and home protection at the moment), I am also a firm believer in the effectiveness of a good scattergun for HD.

With that said, I grew up hunting with a 12 ga. SxS and have been eyeing the Stoeger coach gun (http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firear ... h_guns.php) for it's size, familiarity and sheer simplicity in a HD scenario. Of course, my other top choice would be a Mossberg 500, preferably in a cruiser setup.

With the coach gun, the limiting factor is obviously capacity with the plus side being simplicity and possibly a quicker second round down range.

Pretty sure I know what the answers will be, but I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the SxS as a home defense weapon vs a good pump.

I have the SxS stoeger uplander supreme,it came originally with the 28" barrel,I had it cut down to 20" and I can maneuver it around in close quarters pretty good.I would love to have the coach.They are very nice. Here is what i have,