Bram Frank's lapu lapu corto

[AllenETreat]

So how often do guntings show up on ebay and how much should a guy have set aside to reliably pick one up if steel/edge configuration didn't
matter?

Michael -

I understand they can go in excess of $300 ( sometimes more)
you can sometimes stumble into them offered on other knife forums for sale
by doing a dogpile search -

http://www.dogpile.com

Check that pile thouroughly and every now and again!

AET

[BRAM]

The liners are the same..blade is also same thickness, only G10 is thinner..
no plastic washers as in spydie,,Bronze phoshpor washers in LLC
As for the rest..I own the utility and design patents on the Gunting not Spyderco..Its my knife...I don't have to ask permission to use my design or any variation of my design..
As for the lock.. Its not a compression lock..its not a variation on a compression lock..
A locking liner has a tang arm that rotates out and its not a compression lock..and yes a liner could operate from the top side as well as it does from the bottom as it normally does..
the fact that a compression lock and a puzzle lock have back releasing tang arms doesn't make them the same or related by function.
no anvil pin, no compressing action, then no compression lock..
a puzzle lock does NOT compress...
a puzzle lock has no anvil pin or pinning action..
as for overall quality its as good or better..
personally I think its better..I personally choose the materials used.
( just so you chinaphobes take a breath without dying most of the products you routinely use say made in China, Mexico, Philippines taiwan or Korea..!)

we have gotten this knife out to many teams..and its quality has been touted and approved! You might want to see Wes Doss' article & review in Tactical Knives Nov 2007 "Bram Frank's Warrior Weaponry"..and the LLC won Tactical knife of the Year 2007 @ IWA.

The Spyderco Gunting is dead. end of story. I thank Spyderco for making my design and doing it very well..

Long live the newest member of the Gunting family the LLC and I look forward to the others in the Gunting family of knives: the Desangut, Tusok, Magnum, the LLC fixed blades both standrd and elongated and of course the upcoming Gunting2...

be safe

Bram

[AllenETreat]

The liners are the same..blade is also same thickness, only G10 is thinner..
no plastic washers as in spydie,,Bronze phoshpor washers in LLC
As for the rest..I own the utility and design patents on the Gunting not Spyderco..Its my knife...I don't have to ask permission to use my design or any variation of my design..
as for overall quality its as good or better...
( just so you chinaphobes take a breath without dying most of the products you routinely use say made in China, Mexico, Philippines taiwan or Korea..!)

we have gotten this knife out to many teams..and its quality has been touted and approved! You might want to see Wes Doss' article & review in Tactical Knives Nov 2007 "Bram Frank's Warrior Weaponry"..and the LLC won Tactical knife of the Year 2007 @ IWA.

The Spyderco Gunting is dead. end of story. I thank Spyderco for making my design and doing it very well..

Long live the newest member of the Gunting family the LLC and I look forward to the others in the Gunting family of knives: the Desangut, Tusok, Magnum, the LLC fixed blades both standrd and elongated and of course the upcoming Gunting2...

be safe

Bram

BRAM -

I'm not arguing against but for your LLC design. I'm
not, in a sense, a "chinaphobe" other than communist China is still a hostile
foreign power, and their workers could be paid as well as the rest of the world's, but aren't. Political convictions aside...

I rather like the "puzzle lock". It's probably better than on the Gunting
and seem's a little more "user friendly". For the sake of my lack of mechanical
terms, a "compression" or other type lock ( other than the Walker ( liner ) lock ) really IMO doesn't hold so-much as a candle to the "puzzle lock".

Meebee could introduce a design with your ever kind permission
( and compensation as well ( $$$ )) of a with the "puzzle lock"?


I also read that article in Tactical Knives and that was the reason for this thread.

I hope to obtain an LLC in the future.

AET

[BRAM]

no offense taken...no worries..
I agree on China..its NOT Taiwan..its a surrealistic place.
Mao's ghost walks there all the time...
But they can make a great product if given the zone to do so.

lets just say @ this point I can't touch a compression lock and Spyerco cannot touch a puzzle lock..
its a legal issue.
I have a legal written divorce agreement from the WEB...
I am restrained from saying much more than I do..
I cannot have back some ideas I lost to the WEB and they cannot use ideas I walked with and own en toto : indexing, kinetic et al..

If you'd like to develop a knife with puzzle lock to be made..contact Cherusker Messer and my atty...I'm sure we can work it out.
email me and I'll send you both emails you might need.

arnisman@aol.com

Happy holidays to all of you.
I've just returned from Israel.

be safe
Bram

[AllenETreat]

no offense taken...no worries..
I agree on China..its NOT Taiwan..its a surrealistic place.
Mao's ghost walks there all the time...
But they can make a great product if given the zone to do so.

lets just say @ this point I can't touch a compression lock and Spyerco cannot touch a puzzle lock..
its a legal issue.
I have a legal written divorce agreement from the WEB...
I am restrained from saying much more than I do..
I cannot have back some ideas I lost to the WEB and they cannot use ideas I walked with and own en toto : indexing, kinetic et al..

If you'd like to develop a knife with puzzle lock to be made..contact Cherusker Messer and my atty...I'm sure we can work it out.
email me and I'll send you both emails you might need.

arnisman@aol.com

Happy holidays to all of you.
I've just returned from Israel.

be safe
Bram

shalom BRAM -

What's probably sadder is the legal red tape that is attendant with
any design(s). What a better world this would be if we -

first, let's kill all the lawyers!

as Shakespeare noted. On my list is the LLC from -

http://knifeoutlet.com/shop/10Expand.as ... Code=CKLLC

As previously stated, the "puzzle lock" is a hard to beat design.

BTW : who ( or what's ) the "WEB"?

AET

[BRAM]

Spyderco...homeoffice..... the WEB...


MAGNUM LLCs are coming out soon..4.75 inch blades
Desanguts follow
Then Tusoks
then ..the MAXX

[kevininstructor]

I think Spyderco did an excellent job on the Gunting but what has come along from Bram in the form of the LLC brings the tool to an entirely new level of functionality. The LLC has larger indexing divots, proud liners to much more ergonomic design which could not have happened without the first generation Gunting. I own several of each of the Spyderco Gunting to compare them to the LLC and could never go back to the Spyderco Gunting with all the new features available in the LLC, not because of the manufacturer but because of the new features.

Below are images of the regular LLC and the Magnum model. It's very difficult to not be impressed by either model.

[Piercieve]

Can I find the larger one on ANY websites that aren't based overseas? No luck as of yet. I'm very interested in this knife.

[kevininstructor]

Can I find the larger one on ANY websites that aren't based overseas? No luck as of yet. I'm very interested in this knife.

Just sent you a PM.

[Mancer]

I just got my LLC Magnum yesterday, the Gunting was one of my favorites aside from the Civilian model.
I was so sad that I sold my Gunting.
But in all honesty, when I found out about the LLC and took the plunge (only 94 bucks for the magnum from knife outlet) this thing is everything the Gunting was and more.
Its big and rock solid.
The steel is very high quality and for its use no-one can complain that its not S30V or CPM440C. (thats just absurd, people are far to crazy over "oh its not S30V its no good nowadays).
The scales are thick and solid and the G10 is more than enough.
The stippling is superb on the liners and gives very good grip on the handle, I do also love the stippling on the butt, getting popped in the temple with that would be a nasty suprise and also allows for good grip on skin and clothing when performing locks.

The persian styled blade is very sharp and adequate for its role compared to the Guntings dagger shape, you do also have the option of sharpening the upper false edge if wanted.

After playing with this I would have to say the Guning has evolved into something better, for the price Gunting's sell for, it would make no sense to purchase one unless you are a collector.

Kudo's to Bram for another superb design.

Cheers

Sheldon

[vito72]

I had a chance to handle them at a knife show and I thought they felt very cheap compared to the Spydie version. Maybe it's because they are made in China, I don't know, but IMO the quality was nowhere near that of the original Spyderco Gunting!

Just my .02

Exactly same experience,they are nice but they look cheap IMHO same quality as bird line.

PS i handled both and in my opinion the smaller its much confortable (maybe for my hand) compared with big one, i do not remember exactly if the smaller i tried was tusok.

Of course everyone have own opinion about quality/origin countries..
Still i have a small collection of knives, but no one of them its from Asia.

[BRAM]

"Look cheap" how the hell does G10 and steel "look cheap?"
My knives were Tactical knives of the year @ IWA when they came out..

I guess some of you and Tactical Knives Magazine Executive Editor Steve Dick have VERY different ideas. as to quality..but what would he know..?? He actually carries one of my collaborations as an EDC now: the Anduranz.
Steve Dick said the quality of our knives is as good OR BETTER than anything hes seen from the USA, Taiwan, EU or Japan.. and he put it in print in a 1/2 page sidebar..He said we changed his mind as to quality from China..
As for quality you obviously don't know..its as good or better than anything I have had before.The steel is the same as AUS 8, G10 is as tough or tougher..
the liners are full hard...and no plastic washers..
clear the webbing from your eyes before you make stupid statements.
or as said Stupid people shouldn't be allowed to breed..
You don't like my ideas or designs,,hey thats life..no design or idea pleases everyone..You don't like how I use them? hey no worries again..
Use them any way you want..or don't touch them at all..Its a free country...
But don't EVER try to say I and or Cherusker Messer don't make sure the quality is there and that I would sacrifice quality and hard use tool ability to get a knife out there..rather than we make sure its the highest QUALITY we can..especially when my tools are on the front lines fighting terror, bad guys and saving lives...here and abroad.

The Chinese build WHATEVER you ask for and pay for..just like anyone else..
the Byrd line ain't cheap it is just less expensive to build..
Sal would NEVER let Spyderco have an inferior quality tool in its line up EVER..
None of us would sacrifice quality for sales...

I doubt any of you played with a TUSOK..it just came out..its this years flavor from me.,.
Of course you might have @ BLADE or IWA...or Eugene..

my birthday is coming up and 60 is getting closer than I could believe, I have lots of years on the other side of the table ..probably more than all of you as they say..You guys buy knives.. I invent, design, build and use knives... I teach the way knives are used.
Most of you DON'T..

You got a problem with the quality of my knives.???
Come see me in person.we'll have a personal discussion about it..
I'll be in Vancouver BC Juyl 18-19 and Spokane WA July 25-26...
come find me @ the seminars..
Like I said we'll talk.

be safe

Bram

[vito72]

Mr. Bram i like very much design of your knives and probably in future i will buy one lapu lapu corto or one Tusok, like i said everyone have own point view but honestly i dont think S30V steel its same level of 8CR13MoV i was looking just for info to ebay prices and sound strange for me when a lapu lapu price its just few dollars cheap of one chinook III.


Regards.

[Mancer]

Hi vito72

One thing to pay mind to is the function of the knife.
Its not a Bowie used to hack down trees, it has a specific purpose in life, that is to defend ones life and as a EDC. (try to use the Guntings dagger like shape for EDC use compard to the persian style of this)
S30V would not benefit you any more than AUS8 in this regard, its like saying "the civilian is crap because it has ATS55 or VG10".

The metal of this blade is very sturdy and sharpens to a razors edge, I have used mine all this week and so far she still shaves hair off my arm.

I have some prized Spyderco pieces (including one of the WTT rescues) and do not see the difference between these G10 scales or that of my Spyderco Military,
The blade has no wobble at all and locks up solid, I have squeezed the handle tight and have not had the handle squeeze in on itself.
The liners are very solid and quite thick, the "puzzle lock" also rams in behind the tang very tightly for a good secure feel.

If you carry a EDC blade you would maintain it (or you would suffer the consequences when you need it), using your stones to keep a hair popping edge, so the story of "well S30V or CPM440C has better edge holding" does not come into play for the design and purpose at hand. (and besides this steel as I have said still shaves after 1 week of everyday use, so I dont think anyone can complain about edge retention)

Remember that a for every pro you get, generally there is a con.
The likes of S30V does have very good edge retention yes, but then again it takes a lot longer to get a edge on it compared to other steels such as VG10.

To end this off, if you were attacked and had a sharp S30V Gunting, or if you were attacked and had a sharp 8CR13MoV LLC, how would the S30V serve you any better if you maintained the tools you carry that are meant to protect your life and that of your loved ones?

Just some food for thought

Cheers

Sheldon

[MCM]

And another

[Mancer]

Ah very cool, I have not seen that model as yet, thanks for posting

Cheers

Sheldon

[MCM]

800 were produced.
Ebay is about the only way to find one these days.

[dialex]

Just came in (after a pretty long break) and I'd like te add a few words.
It happens that I have a couple LLC's (thanks Bram) There is one I've been carrying for some time and I used it pretty extensive. Many of you know that I'm not gentle with my knives and the LLC was no exception. I can testify that the LLC is very comfortable, very strong and sturdy. It is also easy to operate and maintain. Not my first option for hiking - and I find this quite normally, since it's a specialized knife - but definitely my first for self defense.
Indeed, it's not a Spyderco, but it's very well built nonetheless. The Spyderco Gunting is a very good knife, no doubt about this, yet I dare to say the LLC is a step forward.

[vito72]

Hi Mancer i do not doubt of your points, i have to agree with you 100%. My only objection was about final price.
I remark i like very much Bram Frank style and SD program im sorry i cant learn to himself such tecniques of SD.
I had only possibility to play few minutes i one shop with 2 lapu lapu and i liked i hope to have soon possibility to get one pack with both lapu lapu the black and red training and i noticed its included a dvd inside.

[Mancer]

Hi vito72

Yes it is by no means a lower priced knife, but for me I suppose since I wanted my Gunting style knife back so badly and seeing the just insane prices on Ebay, $94.00 for this HUGE knife just did not seem so bad.
Especially when I have been used to paying well over $100.00 for a Civilian which was ATS55 with G10 scales.

As time goes forward the price may drop, who knows (supply and demand as per everything) but the good point I can say is since this is very sturdy and well built, just like a Spyderco, we should never need to pay that $94.00 dollars again, this knife should last a life time and many more.

Cheers

Sheldon