You find yourself in a knife fight

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Dr. Snubnose
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You find yourself in a knife fight

Postby Dr. Snubnose » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:54 am

your knife is in your right hand.....What's your left hand doing?....The filipinos say the live hand is the most deadly....are you using your left to distract your opponent, checking/blocking his reaching limbs, reaching into your coat pocket for handfull of ninja sand or salt to throw in his eyes, did you train your left hand (or for lefties the right hand) to grab your flashlight and shine it in your opponent's face to blind him long enough to make your opening....do you have a hidden black coated blade in your left while waving about your shiny blade in the right hand? I once heard a story about a hit man who worked for the mob...he carried a small sharpened nail file....he would walk right up to his mark and cut the back of his hand that was dangling at the mark's side, when the mark looked down at his hand (which would be a normal reaction)he would deliver a devastating palm strike upwards into his mark's chin snapping his head backwards which would either cause a whiplash injury to the neck or dislocate the skull from the top of the spinal column causing instant death. So what do you plan on doing with your other hand?....What says you!...Doc :D
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Kaizen
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Postby Kaizen » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:07 am

We come from different schools of thought DOC, but I always enjoy your posts. I attack with whatever's available to me in terms of the "mark's" targets on his body and whichever personal resource is free (any of my limbs, weapons, etc). If it's there and it works I'll take it. I don't even necessarily care if the weapon that's in my hand is used or not.

If the opportunity is there and it works either way, then it doesn't matter which path I choose, so long as I make a choice.

You bring up a great point though, I think too many people hide behind the psychological illusion that the weapon grants magical powers and is all a person needs to consider during fight. Great topic.
Also "Kaizen1" on BF, "ignoramus" on CPF & EDCF. "kaizenrei" on KF, "Kaizen" on USN.

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Postby yablanowitz » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:18 am

I plan carefully and train constantly to NOT find myself in a knife fight. ;)
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Kaizen
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Postby Kaizen » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:38 am

yablanowitz wrote:I plan carefully and train constantly to NOT find myself in a knife fight. ;)
And you still find yourself in one? How ironic :D .
Also "Kaizen1" on BF, "ignoramus" on CPF & EDCF. "kaizenrei" on KF, "Kaizen" on USN.

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Postby Michael Cook » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:16 pm

:spyder: My left hand is my live hand. In sumbrada range I'll use my surefire or check with it if I can. :spyder:
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Postby KaliGman » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:30 pm

Dr. Snubnose wrote: I once heard a story about a hit man who worked for the mob...he carried a small sharpened nail file....he would walk right up to his mark and cut the back of his hand that was dangling at the mark's side, when the mark looked down at his hand (which would be a normal reaction)he would deliver a devastating palm strike upwards into his mark's chin snapping his head backwards which would either cause a whiplash injury to the neck or dislocate the skull from the top of the spinal column causing instant death.Doc :D

Doc,

Who told you that one? Having worked against organized crime types for several years, I never heard anything like that, outside of some bad novels, that is :rolleyes: . Most of the killer types I heard of or dealt with were pretty out of shape and untrained in unarmed combatives. Mostly they were shooters. Of course, there were a couple of exceptions, but, in the organized crime arena, I never dealt with or heard of anyone confident enough in his prowess with a strike of this type to rely solely on it for a kill.

As for what my off hand is doing (it could be either my left or my right, depending on which one has a weapon in it first)--mostly it will be checking, parrying, pinning, trapping, breaking, and executing empty hand strikes. Sometimes it might be reaching for, or eventually filled with, another weapon.
"There is no weapon more deadly than the will." Bruce Lee

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Postby Chucula » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:38 pm

With my left hand, I would pull a taco kit out of my pocket and offer a fiesta. I think everyone likes tacos, and they would probably say "cool, I was pretty hungry" (which would be a normal reaction).

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Postby PSU » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:47 pm

Chucula wrote:With my left hand, I would pull a taco kit out of my pocket and offer a fiesta. I think everyone likes tacos, and they would probably say "cool, I was pretty hungry" (which would be a normal reaction).
I like your style! Do you practice that technique with a training partner? Are you able to execute it under duress? :D
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Postby bigkahunasix » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:52 pm

Doc, If I am not mistaken that "gentleman" was a former golden gloves was he not? Disliked firearms because the drew attention. I have heard the same story, though I cannot remember where.

In my case, my left (live) hand is either drawing a flashlight or firearm depending on the circumstances. If I had no firearm it would deflect, trap or draw my weak hand EDC.
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Postby Chucula » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:53 pm

PSU wrote:I like your style! Do you practice that technique with a training partner? Are you able to execute it under duress? :D
I haven't been able to find a training partner, so I practice in the mirror every Saturday night. It works great on me--even under duress, I could still go for a taco.

The best part about this technique is that it is very versatile. It works against adults, animals, children, and even yourself.

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Postby Agent Starling » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:05 pm

Good question! I would surmise that it would be best to train both hands to do all tasks equally well...if one's strong hand is injured in a confrontation, then they're stuck if they haven't trained the other hand.

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Postby Dr. Snubnose » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:11 pm

KaliGman wrote:Doc,

Who told you that one? Having worked against organized crime types for several years, I never heard anything like that, outside of some bad novels, that is :rolleyes: . Most of the killer types I heard of or dealt with were pretty out of shape and untrained in unarmed combatives. Mostly they were shooters. Of course, there were a couple of exceptions, but, in the organized crime arena, I never dealt with or heard of anyone confident enough in his prowess with a strike of this type to rely solely on it for a kill.

As for what my off hand is doing (it could be either my left or my right, depending on which one has a weapon in it first)--mostly it will be checking, parrying, pinning, trapping, breaking, and executing empty hand strikes. Sometimes it might be reaching for, or eventually filled with, another weapon.
Ay KaliGman: The story was related to me by the late Carl Cestari (whom I'm sure you have heard of) and the story was told to him If I remember correctly by a gentleman named Patrick Fair, both had backgrounds in Law Enforcement, though Carl was more noted for his WWII Combatives approach to self-defense. I never met Patrick Fair. And BigK was right the made man was a former golden gloves boxer who did not favor the firearm to do his dirty work and I was told if the blow wasn't fatal it did at the very least slammed the mark to the ground, where he would finish what he started using his boots.....Doc :D
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Postby Dr. Snubnose » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:19 pm

Right on the button Agent Starling! Ambidexterity is one of the best dirty tricks you can have. Everyone plays lip-service to it, but few actually work it. How many times does the weapon-hand wind up being grabbed instead of cut? A lot. How many times have you taken someone in sparring, when they have a grip on your knife hand, by just quickly switching hands and continuing attack? Ambidexterity is you best friend in a self-defense situation....Doc :D
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Postby Dr. Snubnose » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:20 pm

Agent Starling wrote:Good question! I would surmise that it would be best to train both hands to do all tasks equally well...if one's strong hand is injured in a confrontation, then they're stuck if they haven't trained the other hand.

Agent Starling
Right on the money Agent Starling:
Ambidexterity is one of the best dirty tricks you can have. Everyone plays lip-service to it, but few actually work it. How many times does the weapon-hand wind up being grabbed instead of cut? A lot. How many times have you taken someone in sparring, when they have a grip on your knife hand, by just quickly switching hands and continuing attack? Ambidexterity is your best friend in a self defense situation....Doc :D
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Postby MAT888 » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:44 pm

I'm not trained in knive fightin whatsoever.
But a shiny knive for attack and a blackbladed for surprize in left hand sounds very smart to me.
I think you should pack at least two knives one at your strong side and one at your weak side. So in case they grab your strong side hand with knive you can always cut yourself free with your weak side surprize knive. That's just thoughts of a not trained person.

On a documentary i heard a story told by Ted Kublinski who worked for the mob as a hitman and did a lot of bad thinks.

One time he dressed up very loud as inpersonating a gay to get close to a target on the dancefloor in a exclusive club . He bumped up to the target and stabbed him with a needle in the back. the needle was hidden between to fingers . The tip was covered in ricine; very toxic.

I guess you can never be prepared enough in some cases :eek:

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Postby KaliGman » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:49 pm

Dr. Snubnose wrote:Ay KaliGman: The story was related to me by the late Carl Cestari (whom I'm sure you have heard of) and the story was told to him If I remember correctly by a gentleman named Patrick Fair, both had backgrounds in Law Enforcement, though Carl was more noted for his WWII Combatives approach to self-defense. I never met Patrick Fair. And BigK was right the made man was a former golden gloves boxer who did not favor the firearm to do his dirty work and I was told if the blow wasn't fatal it did at the very least slammed the mark to the ground, where he would finish what he started using his boots.....Doc :D
Interesting. I have heard of Carl Cestari. Seems like you are talking about the old, old days. I have found a lot of the "mafiosi" stuff from those days has grown in the telling. It was interesting to me to deal with a NYC Detective who had known Lucky Luciano--he debunked a few myths and told me a few stories that were interesting indeed. Anyway, as you well know, this particular method can be fatal, so it is possible. When it comes to that, I have pictures of some interesting blade work done by a group of organized crime boys south of the border--leaving severed heads is always an interesting calling card, so not everyone uses a gun!

Having rethought my post a bit, and having reviewed Chucula's I think I would revise my original response to:

1. Pinch myself with my off hand to see if I was in fact in one of those "I get to mess up a whole bunch of bad guys without doing 8 months of paperwork" dreams or if I was truly awake.

2. Look around for the movie crew--Yep--Steven Seagal is over at the cast and crew buffet table wiping out 20 pounds of chicken wings, Van Damme is hitting on anything in a skirt, and Chuck Norris is being Chuck Norris (no one but Chuck can get away with that). Definitely a movie, so here we go and let's have some fun.

3. After determining that this is real, start taking notes with my off hand, so I can write one of those "It happened to me" BS articles in one of the gun or knife rags. ;)

4. Do what I said in the first post (which is, of course, the best course of action I have come up with for the incredibly unlikely event of a "knife duel.") In general, I will do what I need to at the up close and personal range, inflict a lot of damage, disengage and gain some distance if possible, go to my handgun, and inflict a lot of additional damage with large caliber bullets. Repeat as necessary.

Chucula--

I would cut you if you brought a taco to a knife fight. That is, unless the salsa was just right. What kind are you using?--and keep in mind that I have been good salsa deprived since my transfer from the Mexican border area.
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Postby Chucula » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:00 pm

KaliGman wrote: Chucula--

I would cut you if you brought a taco to a knife fight. That is, unless the salsa was just right. What kind are you using?--and keep in mind that I have been good salsa deprived since my transfer from the Mexican border area.
This is a good point--not all salsas are good. I avoid this problem by making it fairly spicy (to take the focus off of the other parts) and making sure all the basic ingredients are fresh--tomato and onion among others.

In more dangerous situations, I might throw in a couple habanero peppers and be careful that I do not bite first. I think most people would be incapacitated by the peppers (except of course Chuck Norris, who would incapacitate the peppers), giving me time to get away.

I guess if I my salsa or taco's didn't work, I would use my taco gun to shoot em and force them to eat some tacos or spicy chili. The bad guy would become sleepy after eating (which would be a normal reaction) and i would be able to get away.

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Postby dete » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:20 pm

my left hand wouldn't be the only one helping,
the whole rest of the body :)

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Postby ASHTXSNIPER » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:24 pm

If I am in a knife fight my left hand will be reaching for the Kahr 40 in my pocket while my right hand slashes. Thank God I can shoot well left handed.

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Postby Alteran » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 pm

Chucula wrote:With my left hand, I would pull a taco kit out of my pocket and offer a fiesta. I think everyone likes tacos, and they would probably say "cool, I was pretty hungry" (which would be a normal reaction).
What's your address? I feel like attacking you. :D


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