Rethinking handguns

[bearfacedkiller]

Interesting thread.

Patiently waiting for the FBI to switch to .38 Special.

Military and law enforcement have valid reasons for wanting added capacity and quick reloads.

The average citizen, especially someone who lives rural like I do, can sort out most problems with 5-6 rounds.

[The Mastiff]

Military and law enforcement have valid reasons for wanting added capacity and quick reloads.

The average citizen, especially someone who lives rural like I do, can sort out most problems with 5-6 rounds.

I'd like to think my situation also but as long as there is a possibility I want other options.

Joe

[Doc Dan]

A friend of mine carries a Sig 365 9mm.

I've had a chance to handle it and it is pretty nice.

If you want a small gun for EDC, you should look into it.

Lots of extras and options available: grips, mags, sights, manual safety, etc.

https://youtu.be/n29qgsP9B-E

It is a nice pistol but truthfully it is still too big for in the pocket carry.

[Doc Dan]

Statistically, even with law enforcement, not to mention civilians, the average gunfight is sorted out in only two or three rounds.

Yes, bad marksmanship and "spray and pray" happen, and those are the anomalies. I'd be one or two rounds is more like it.

[TomAiello]

It is a nice pistol but truthfully it is still too big for in the pocket carry.

Depends on your pockets and (especially) your belt.

I have a Glock 23 in my pocket right now.

[Doc Dan]

It is a nice pistol but truthfully it is still too big for in the pocket carry.

Depends on your pockets and (especially) your belt.

I have a Glock 23 in my pocket right now.

Big pockets and baggy pants.

[TomAiello]

It is a nice pistol but truthfully it is still too big for in the pocket carry.

Depends on your pockets and (especially) your belt.

I have a Glock 23 in my pocket right now.

Big pockets and baggy pants.

And a seriously stiff belt. I own a loft full of industrial sewing machines, so I tend to build and modify things for myself. I wear cargo pants and load my EDC stuff into the pockets. My wife says they must weigh 20 pounds. I haven't actually weighed them to find out though.

[vivi]

A friend of mine carries a Sig 365 9mm.

I've had a chance to handle it and it is pretty nice.

If you want a small gun for EDC, you should look into it.

Lots of extras and options available: grips, mags, sights, manual safety, etc.

https://youtu.be/n29qgsP9B-E

It is a nice pistol but truthfully it is still too big for in the pocket carry.

I'd agree. I've owned one and while it would technically fit in some pockets it isn't what I'd consider a pocketgun. Guns like that, shields and glock 43's need a belt holster for me.

[shunsui]

To clarify, my friend's been carrying one in his right front pocket for a couple of years now.

But, I guess that just shows that one size doesn't fit all.

[remnar]

It is a nice pistol but truthfully it is still too big for in the pocket carry.

Depends on your pockets and (especially) your belt.

I have a Glock 23 in my pocket right now.

You must have some BIG pockets. I have a Glock 23 and there is no way it's riding in my pocket. I also have the Sig p365 and although I could manage to carry it in my pocket, I do agree that it is a little big for pocket carry.

[Mad Mac]

Full disclosure, a Seecamp .32 and convertible holster in a hip pocket
has been the only handgun I've carried all day for days at a time.

And I've tried a lot of them including an Airweight .38.
Revolvers just don't work for me.

But my favorite now is the Rodney Dangerfield of pistols,
a "can't get no respect" Kel-Tec PF9, Pistol Flat 9mm.

At 12 ounces it is 6 ounces lighter than other micro 9mms.
The slim single stack magazine holds only 7 cartridges
which makes it a few ounces lighter still.

Loaded, it is about half a pound lighter than any 9mm on the market.
It could ride in a pocket I suppose but I prefer strong side OWB.

At the risk of repeating myself, it's my Green New Deal.



But for many of the reasons mentioned above,
I bought my daughter a Ruger Security Six
to have at home when she was single.
Small frame size, rugged, simple, feed it .38 or .357.

[TomAiello]

It is a nice pistol but truthfully it is still too big for in the pocket carry.

Depends on your pockets and (especially) your belt.

I have a Glock 23 in my pocket right now.

You must have some BIG pockets.

These pants: https://www.duluthtrading.com/mens-dulu ... 71700.html

[Water Bug]

I'm a huge fan of the .357 Magnum due to its versatility in ammunition choice (.38 Special, .38 +P, .357 Magnum) and its reliability as a revolver.

[bearfacedkiller]

I have a shield .45 which is basically the same size as the p365 and it is too big for me to pocket carry.

[The Deacon]

I went in the opposite direction about a year ago and replaced the 17 oz. 5 shot J-frame .38 revolver I'd been carrying with a large frame double stack semi-auto. Events around the country were probably a factor, but having lost over 80 pounds at that point made the idea carrying an extra pound or two of protection a whole lot more appealing. Went back and forth between Beretta's 9mm 92 and their .45acp PX4 Storm for a while and tried a couple versions of the 9mm PX4, finally settling on this Langdon Tactical Elite Centurion when it arrived a few months back.

Regarding .38spl +P ammo, while I agree with Jim, I'd just note that the same caveat about using it in older guns also applies to +P and other "hot" loads in other calibers as well.

[Mad Mac]

...but having lost over 80 pounds...

Congratulations, Deacon !!!

[Ankerson]

Regarding .38spl +P ammo, while I agree with Jim, I'd just note that the same caveat about using it in older guns also applies to +P and other "hot" loads in other calibers as well.

Yes, that would go without saying, but it is good that you brought it up. :)

I remember when the 10mm guns 1st came out and what happened to the guns in a pretty short time frame if they were shot a lot.

Same with the Desert Eagle .44 Magnum when it 1st came out.

Then there was the .45 ACP +P ammo and what that did to some guns.

Saw all of that 1st hand too, I just didn't read about it.

I used to shoot high powered handguns enough to have worn out a number of revolvers, flame cut top straps to the point they had to be destroyed.

Lets just say I went through a lot of W296 and H110 back in the day. :D

[Tiquito]

Statistically, even with law enforcement, not to mention civilians, the average gunfight is sorted out in only two or three rounds.

Yes, bad marksmanship and "spray and pray" happen, and those are the anomalies. I'd be one or two rounds is more like it.

Statistically you are so incredibly unlikely to ever fire a gun in self defense. If one is just going off of statistics then one would be good carrying an unloaded gun (we have no way to quantify in any kind of remotely reliable way times when the presence of gun was sufficient).

Pocket carry may have some niche applications but in general I find it a pretty sub optimal way to carry a primary gun all day.

I personally believe people should set some realistic objective performance criteria and assure the at they can meet with their chosen weapon and carry method. The combination of holster and carry method are everything. I’ve found that changing those can allow me to comfortably carry a gun that previously was “way too big.”

I personally believe people should set some objective criteria (generally that means measuring speed and accuracy) and assure that with their chosen equipment and carry method. I think it is prudent to test carry methods from from unorthodox positions and through force on force training. It’s amazing how things that seemed great do to ease become blatantly terrible when measured objectively or tested in force on force.

As for carrying little light weight revolvers with super hot loads, when we look at actual terminal ballistics I’m not sure what one gains. Pistol rounds in typical cartridges (9mm Kurtz, 38 spc, 9x19, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10 mm .357 mag) are all just poking holes. You need adequate penetration, but after that aren’t accomplishing much. Shot placement is the biggest factor BY FAR. It’s probably because I just suck but I cannot shoot little snub nose DA revolvers with hot loads nearly as well as a lot of other 9mm guns. At a certain point little guns just give up way too much in terms of how well I can shoot and manipulate them (consistent clean grip and draw stroke on something like a G19 is way easier than a little sub compact).

Their is a large spectrum of what people feel comfortable carrying and a lot of variables between different people. I’d just encourage people to have a working understanding of terminal ballistics and then prove their equipment, carry methods, skill, and theories about them all with objective measurements and realistic scenario based force on force.

[jpm2]

My preferred carry when solo is a full size 5" 1911 45 acp iwb small of the back, and 2 loaded mags.
Hands down fastest 1st shot and follow up accuracy, plus ambidextrous draw.

When traveling with my wife, we each carry .357 sp101's 2.25", both loaded with rem 125gr jhp @ ~1300 fps in summer, and 2 loaded speed loaders.
Winter time (jacket weather) is 158gr non jacketed lead @ ~1150 fps.
Sacrifice a little speed and accuracy for compatibility and redundancy.

DVC

[BLUETYPEII]

It is a nice pistol but truthfully it is still too big for in the pocket carry.

Depends on your pockets and (especially) your belt.

I have a Glock 23 in my pocket right now.

Big pockets and baggy pants.

I have carried that .38 I presented earlier in my pants pocket. It’s just much more comfortable tucked inside the waist band.

(edit)

If I’m going to have my pistol on me all day though I’ll usually carry it like this. If I want it concealed I’ll just ware a baggy shirt.

.