Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

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SpyderEdgeForever
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Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:23 pm

Obviously this forum is not a legal advice place but, out of curiousity, what are the general and specific laws in various states, cities, nations, and places when it comes to non traditional self defense items that are non metallic, such as Stinger Key Chains that are blunt and made of polymers or composites like glass fiber materials and other non metallics? Some of them seem to be very strong and even one-piece and would be effective for last-ditch and personal defense, if the person was trained or untrained.

I read here that in some situations, such as attempting to carry any non metallic edged tool or weapon or device is instantly illegal if the passenger attempts to bring it onto an airplane?

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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Bloke » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:54 am

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:23 pm
self defense items that are non metallic
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Mad Mac » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:11 pm

The FAA seems to have no sense of humor when it comes to edged weapons, metallic or otherwise. But what's to prevent someone from bringing a porcelain plate, sheet of glass or ceramic tile onto a plane, and then once aboard breaking it and thereby creating two edged weapons?

Texas is fairly wide open when it comes to knives now, thanks to Knife Rights, but one chap found a way to get busted, not for the blade but for the decorative knuckle duster handle. Give me a break. https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/tex ... s-10252654

Spyderco should offer a Mule machined from G10, an executive letter opener. In another life, I once had one made of fiberglass filled polymer but gave it to a cute secretary who admired it. I'm so easy.
1990: Endura SE, Delica PE, Mariner, Police. 2014: ClipiTool Bottle Opener. 2015: Kitchen Knife PE, Tenacious CE, Stretch PE, Moran Drop Point, Kiwi, two Byrd Cara Caras, Schempp Bowie, Native 5 Forum Knife, Sharpmaker, Police SE, Small SpyderPac, Ultra-Fine Stones, Tenacious SE, 4" Paring Knife, 2" Paring Knife, Starmate. 2016: The Spyderco Story, The Tactical Folding Knife, USN Ladybug H-1 Hawkbill SE, Black BaliYo, Yellow H-1 Salt Dragonfly 2 SE, Ulize, Pink Native 5 PE, Renegade C23PS and C23P, Gayle Bradley 2, Double Bevel, Gayle Bradley Air, Cricket Blue Nishjin, Centofante Memory, K2, two Large Lum Pink G10, Rubicon. 2017: Battlestation, Orange Positron, Gray Baliyo, Native 5 CE, Tenacious CE. 2018: EuroEdge, ClipiTool Standard, 2019 Calendar Contest Rhino CF PLN.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Extra330SC » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:36 pm

Bloke wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:54 am
SpyderEdgeForever wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:23 pm
self defense items that are non metallic
Image
:D

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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby The Deacon » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:32 am

There's no single answer to this. Even if we confine ourselves to the USA, the legality of any item marketed as a weapon is going to vary from state to state and even from city to city within a state.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Evil D » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:42 am

This is why you should just carry a Zebra F701. While it isn't truly solid stainless all the way through (the inside tube that everything threads into is plastic), it's still sturdy enough to get the job done in an emergency, and it isn't even close to getting labelled as a tactical pen. There are lots of great steel pens that will fly under the radar, the Parker Jotter is another great one.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Dodge » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:50 am

this is my favorite for non permissive carry.

https://spearpointtech.com/products/dls-universal

this site is nice too. I have their Victorinox paring knife sheath. top quality!
http://mi-tac.net/tactical/knives-edged ... -metallic/
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby demoncase » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:56 am

Mad Mac wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:11 pm
The FAA seems to have no sense of humor when it comes to edged weapons, metallic or otherwise. But what's to prevent someone from bringing a porcelain plate, sheet of glass or ceramic tile onto a plane, and then once aboard breaking it and thereby creating two edged weapons?
Funnily enough, items which can be redeployed as weapons due to their material (glass bottles etc) will get flagged by the image software in hand baggage scanners.

So yeah, the FAA have even less of a sense of humor than you thought.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby James Y » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:10 pm

I actually carry a Comtech Stinger, and have had it since the early 2000s. Some people think it looks funny because of its obvious shape, but IMO it's the real deal. As to its legality, I highly doubt that anything designed and marketed as a self-defense weapon will be considered 'acceptable' in the US legal system. Even if it's marketed as 'non-lethal', whatever that means. ANY object, if used in certain ways in certain situations on certain people, can be potentially lethal. If a simple bare-handed punch or full-body torque 'street slap' can have lethal results in some instances; a plastic strike-enhancer can certainly also inflict serious injury or death.

I actually use the Stinger now and then for massaging the bottoms of my feet. I'm also a professional massage therapist. But even that might not be an acceptable enough excuse in the eyes of the law. In the past, I've punched the trunk of an old Jacaranda tree in my backyard with the Stinger, and even a light punch could easily chip off tree bark without any damage to the Stinger or any pain in my hand. I would imagine a punch to the head or face with the Stinger could do some potentially fatal damage, or at least would hurt really, really badly. If you started boxing with it in your hand, even more so, as long as you punch in proper alignment.

Anything designed to defend yourself against another human being, with the possible exception of pepper spray, is frowned upon by the law, at least as I see it. Even the difference between an open hand and a closed fist. The closed fist considered much more heinous legally. It's kind of laughable, because if you really know how to deliver a proper full-torque street slap or palm-heel hook, you can hit much harder and more effectively, with far less risk of breaking your own hand, than with a closed fist (except for the hammer fist).

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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Mad Mac » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:11 pm

This thread started out about legality and not lethality, and when it comes to martial arts I know nothing, and at the risk of veering slightly off subject I have to ask. If someone attacks you with fists, a club or a knife, won't you be busy blocking and grappling? Won't you need both hands? Would you really have time to dig out a weapon of your own?

Non-metallic knives would be great for assassins sneaking a lethal weapon into a non-permissive carry situation and silently dispatching their target. But for self-defense? School me.
1990: Endura SE, Delica PE, Mariner, Police. 2014: ClipiTool Bottle Opener. 2015: Kitchen Knife PE, Tenacious CE, Stretch PE, Moran Drop Point, Kiwi, two Byrd Cara Caras, Schempp Bowie, Native 5 Forum Knife, Sharpmaker, Police SE, Small SpyderPac, Ultra-Fine Stones, Tenacious SE, 4" Paring Knife, 2" Paring Knife, Starmate. 2016: The Spyderco Story, The Tactical Folding Knife, USN Ladybug H-1 Hawkbill SE, Black BaliYo, Yellow H-1 Salt Dragonfly 2 SE, Ulize, Pink Native 5 PE, Renegade C23PS and C23P, Gayle Bradley 2, Double Bevel, Gayle Bradley Air, Cricket Blue Nishjin, Centofante Memory, K2, two Large Lum Pink G10, Rubicon. 2017: Battlestation, Orange Positron, Gray Baliyo, Native 5 CE, Tenacious CE. 2018: EuroEdge, ClipiTool Standard, 2019 Calendar Contest Rhino CF PLN.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Crux » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:55 pm

If I fly alone (the misses won't let me when we are together) I carry this. Perfectly legal on an airplane and you don't even have to use it. ADA

Cold Steel City Stick w/ Aluminum Head 91STA

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Can you find it and can it cut? :eek:

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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Mad Mac » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:00 pm

I like that a lot.
1990: Endura SE, Delica PE, Mariner, Police. 2014: ClipiTool Bottle Opener. 2015: Kitchen Knife PE, Tenacious CE, Stretch PE, Moran Drop Point, Kiwi, two Byrd Cara Caras, Schempp Bowie, Native 5 Forum Knife, Sharpmaker, Police SE, Small SpyderPac, Ultra-Fine Stones, Tenacious SE, 4" Paring Knife, 2" Paring Knife, Starmate. 2016: The Spyderco Story, The Tactical Folding Knife, USN Ladybug H-1 Hawkbill SE, Black BaliYo, Yellow H-1 Salt Dragonfly 2 SE, Ulize, Pink Native 5 PE, Renegade C23PS and C23P, Gayle Bradley 2, Double Bevel, Gayle Bradley Air, Cricket Blue Nishjin, Centofante Memory, K2, two Large Lum Pink G10, Rubicon. 2017: Battlestation, Orange Positron, Gray Baliyo, Native 5 CE, Tenacious CE. 2018: EuroEdge, ClipiTool Standard, 2019 Calendar Contest Rhino CF PLN.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Bloke » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:03 pm

Crux wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:55 pm
I carry this.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby The Deacon » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:12 am

Mad Mac wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:11 pm
This thread started out about legality and not lethality, and when it comes to martial arts I know nothing, and at the risk of veering slightly off subject I have to ask. If someone attacks you with fists, a club or a knife, won't you be busy blocking and grappling? Won't you need both hands? Would you really have time to dig out a weapon of your own?

The way I see it, there are three possible scenarios. If someone attacks from behind, sucker punches you, or otherwise catches you totally unaware, then retrieving your defensive weapon may very well be difficult or impossible. If you feel threatened but manage to avoid or evade the threat, then you also have time to retrieve your defensive weapon as a precaution while making your escape. However, if you notice someone you think might pose a danger to you, but cannot avoid or evade, then you should have time to retrieve whatever defensive weapon(s) you are carrying. Which scenario is most likely will depend on your location, lifestyle, and physical condition. I'm over 70, overweight, with 2 bum knees, so running is not going to be a viable option.

Mad Mac wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:11 pm
Non-metallic knives would be great for assassins sneaking a lethal weapon into a non-permissive carry situation and silently dispatching their target. But for self-defense? School me.

Because bad guys don't obey the rules and see "weapon free zones" as easy targets. Some decent folks simply don't want to go into that "non-permissive" venue completely defenseless and may see a non-metallic knife as "better than nothing".
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Doc Dan » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:11 am

SEF, the folks that enforce laws are not stupid, well, at least most aren't. Anything designed as a weapon, even if not steel or metal of some sort, will still be considered as a weapon in most places. And, as has been pointed out, laws vary greatly, even from town to town, even if they adjoin one another. So, there is that to consider. If daggers are illegal, one made from polymer will be just as illegal, for example. Even pepper spray, the darling defend all for the bourgeoisie for some politicians, is illegal in some places.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby The Deacon » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:56 am

Doc Dan wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:11 am
SEF, the folks that enforce laws are not stupid, well, at least most aren't. Anything designed as a weapon, even if not steel or metal of some sort, will still be considered as a weapon in most places. And, as has been pointed out, laws vary greatly, even from town to town, even if they adjoin one another. So, there is that to consider. If daggers are illegal, one made from polymer will be just as illegal, for example. Even pepper spray, the darling defend all for the bourgeoisie for some politicians, is illegal in some places.

Very true, Dan. It's when you're talking about non-metallic "compliance tools" like kubotans and yawara sticks that legality may be questionable in some cities.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby phillipsted » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:29 am

I've taken to carrying walking sticks when I'm on travel. If we are going to an area for hiking, I carry my carbon fiber collapsible hiking sticks. But, if I'm going somewhere less outdoorsy, I'll carry my BlackSwift stick. They are extremely light weight and incredibly sturdy and durable. Several companies make sticks similar to these (like Cold Steel), but the BlackSwift sticks are head-and-shoulders above these.

http://www.blackswiftsticks.com/

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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby James Y » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:03 pm

phillipsted wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:29 am
I've taken to carrying walking sticks when I'm on travel. If we are going to an area for hiking, I carry my carbon fiber collapsible hiking sticks. But, if I'm going somewhere less outdoorsy, I'll carry my BlackSwift stick. They are extremely light weight and incredibly sturdy and durable. Several companies make sticks similar to these (like Cold Steel), but the BlackSwift sticks are head-and-shoulders above these.

http://www.blackswiftsticks.com/
I also carry a Blackswift walking stick. Mine is called the Raptor. I only carry it while out on walks, though. I find it to be the most carry-friendly 'martial' walking stick. However, I found it so-so as an actual walking aid (when my back was hurting a couple years ago). If you're on a hard, slippery floor, it can slip.

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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Mad Mac » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:17 pm

That is very cool. I visited http://www.blackswiftsticks.com/index.html and may have to add one to my collection. Here are some of the sticks I've accumulated so far.

Image

Left to right, a cattlemen's steam bent hickory cane with a crutch tip added to it. I have white oak one without the tip in my Jeep.

An Odie Crisman putter is next which golfers of a certain age may recognize. This one was awarded to my grandfather by his college students when he retired. When his vision became so poor he could no longer enjoy playing golf, he converted it to a walking stick.

A Blackthorn from Cold Steel I bought for my mother. This one is real Blackthorn and not the polypropylene facsimiles they sell today. Blackthorn grows on the British Isles and the sticks were popular there and being the anglophile she was, it was her favorite.

The serpentine cane is one I made myself for my mother. We have a type of Indian basket grass or yuca here that the locals call Bear Grass. It sprouts tall straight stalks with huge clusters of blossoms. I have made strong, lightweight, four-foot long hiking sticks from them in the past when I noticed this one growing crooked on a road I drove daily and kept my eye on it. It's geotropism had run amuck. When it was mature, I cut it and let it dry in the garage. She carried it long enough to show and tell to her friends before reverting to the Blackthorn. It's short but so was she, specially with her osteoporosis. In spite of the crookedness and lightness, it supports weight well.

A hiking stick a granddaughter returning from Germany gave to my mother. The leather wrist strap has been lost to time but notice the point. I bought a long one, not pictured, to display my collection of badges on when I was stationed there. It has a curved handle and I cut the steel tip off and replaced it with a crutch tip to make it practical here in the Big PX.

The last three were used as pointers by my grandfather when he was teaching. Prior to that, the shorter two might have been swagger sticks from when he was an officer in the CCC or in WWII.

Not pictured are hiking sticks I've made from Crape Myrtle, Yaupon or White Elm used for trudging around the property or to sort cattle. Walking the neighborhood, they are also handy for warding off aggressive canids. When I have my stick, they fall in behind me and follow me quietly for a while, as if I was the leader of the pack.

For an older gentleman like myself who can get away with carrying a cane, I do believe a cane makes a worthy self defense item.
Last edited by Mad Mac on Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1990: Endura SE, Delica PE, Mariner, Police. 2014: ClipiTool Bottle Opener. 2015: Kitchen Knife PE, Tenacious CE, Stretch PE, Moran Drop Point, Kiwi, two Byrd Cara Caras, Schempp Bowie, Native 5 Forum Knife, Sharpmaker, Police SE, Small SpyderPac, Ultra-Fine Stones, Tenacious SE, 4" Paring Knife, 2" Paring Knife, Starmate. 2016: The Spyderco Story, The Tactical Folding Knife, USN Ladybug H-1 Hawkbill SE, Black BaliYo, Yellow H-1 Salt Dragonfly 2 SE, Ulize, Pink Native 5 PE, Renegade C23PS and C23P, Gayle Bradley 2, Double Bevel, Gayle Bradley Air, Cricket Blue Nishjin, Centofante Memory, K2, two Large Lum Pink G10, Rubicon. 2017: Battlestation, Orange Positron, Gray Baliyo, Native 5 CE, Tenacious CE. 2018: EuroEdge, ClipiTool Standard, 2019 Calendar Contest Rhino CF PLN.
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Re: Legality of Non-Metallic Self-Defense Items?

Postby Crux » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:00 pm

phillipsted wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:29 am
I've taken to carrying walking sticks when I'm on travel. If we are going to an area for hiking, I carry my carbon fiber collapsible hiking sticks. But, if I'm going somewhere less outdoorsy, I'll carry my BlackSwift stick. They are extremely light weight and incredibly sturdy and durable. Several companies make sticks similar to these (like Cold Steel), but the BlackSwift sticks are head-and-shoulders above these.

http://www.blackswiftsticks.com/
I disagree as the Cold Steel cane I mentioned is far more handy for defense. The actual cane is much thicker so it also serves a purpose rather than relying on the handle alone.
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