I'm not looking for a rehash of recent discussions, but I'm still fuzzy on some things. Obviously any knife can be used as a defensive weapon. Spyderco defines MBC in terms of lock rating (obviously important).
But I've been looking at the MBC knives and they are all really different. There has been a lot of discussion here of MBC features in general and of the gunting and ronin/yojimbo, partly because Bram and Mike J. have contributed a lot of their ideas about MBC and their knife designs. The Lil Temp (one of my favorite knives) is touted as a big little knife (3" blade), and the Chinook feature that seems to get a lot of attention is its heavy-dutiness (if that's a word <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> ). All great knives (they're spydies after all, and designed by people that know their stuff). But other than lock strength, sharp points and sharp edges, they look pretty different. Does that mean they are used differently in a SD/MBC context, or are the differences beside the point ? (sorry for my ignorance and bad pun).
Also, what about carry ???
I don't remember everything that was on Mike J.'s list of important SD knife features, but ease of carry has got to be one, yet it looks to me like only one of the 4 knives I listed is light/slim enough to be a comfortable pocket carry - the yojimbo (this is theoretical to me since I've never handled one). I carry my Lil Temp sometimes, but it is a bit chunky for pocket carry, and the Gunting and Chinook are even larger and heavier. If a knife is not convenient to carry in everyday life, you won't have it with you when you need it. So my question is, how do you folks carry these knives, or do you ? Lock strength is important, but if you were chosing a folder for SD, what is a good compromise ? I really like the look of the Chinook II. Anybody carry/handle it yet and how does it compare ? thanks for your patience.
what makes a knife MBC ?
Any folding knives that I carry are attached to my pockets via clips (I carry one on each side).
My carry knives are most often a Native (sometimes a Dodo) carried in left, front pocket. In my right/front pocket resides my Emerson CQC-7b.
On my belt resides (most often) a Strider DB. I also sometimes carry my Sig P228 on my belt.
I purposely carry knives on both sides in the rare event that my right hand is occupied/out of action, I'll be able to access my folder with my left (weak) hand.
Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com
My carry knives are most often a Native (sometimes a Dodo) carried in left, front pocket. In my right/front pocket resides my Emerson CQC-7b.
On my belt resides (most often) a Strider DB. I also sometimes carry my Sig P228 on my belt.
I purposely carry knives on both sides in the rare event that my right hand is occupied/out of action, I'll be able to access my folder with my left (weak) hand.
Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com
thanks Jim. So you have a primary and a backup that are different? I've been thinking maybe a second/backup knife (if SD is one of the potential purposes of carrying a knife) should be the same model as the primary, to make it easy to switch hands in either direction should the need arise. Any thoughts anybody ?
I believe an MBC knife should have a handle which fits my hands well. Too small or too large is not good. I use the Gunting as my EDC carry knife, and it is not too large for me, either in a pocket or in my preferred sheath carry. When outside my home state and therefore not carrying a pistol, a second Gunting will back up the first, accompanied by a karambit, assuming all these knives are legal. In some places it is necessary to carry something different to remain legal. At home in Texas, when carrying a pistol, it is usually only one Gunting, backed up by a karambit or two, and, if in uniform, a Spyderco Civilian. I normally use karambits and Civilians in my left hand, and the Gunting in my right hand.
Edited by - Rex G on 12/15/2003 10:55:25 AM
Edited by - Rex G on 12/15/2003 10:55:25 AM
Runningdog Posted: thanks Jim. So you have a primary and a backup that are different? I've been thinking maybe a second/backup knife (if SD is one of the potential purposes of carrying a knife) should be the same model as the primary, to make it easy to switch hands in either direction should the need arise. Any thoughts anybody ? >>>
My main Self Defense blade is normally my Strider, which rides on the belt.
My back-up is the Emerson in my right front pocket because:
1. My right is my strong side.
2. The CQC-7b has the wave capability, and opens very quickly.
My Spydie in my left pocket is most used for utility cutting. Of course, it could always be a back-up weapon, too.
Occasionally I carry a spydie in my right front pocket as a back-up.
I like to change 'em up every now and then, depending upon mood.
Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com
My main Self Defense blade is normally my Strider, which rides on the belt.
My back-up is the Emerson in my right front pocket because:
1. My right is my strong side.
2. The CQC-7b has the wave capability, and opens very quickly.
My Spydie in my left pocket is most used for utility cutting. Of course, it could always be a back-up weapon, too.
Occasionally I carry a spydie in my right front pocket as a back-up.
I like to change 'em up every now and then, depending upon mood.
Sniper -- One Shot, One Kill Email: ST8PEN01@aol.com
I guess ease of carry is a matter of opinion.
Any edged tool can be used as aan MBC or SDR tool..but is it designed to be..
As for ease of carry..
Lighter and slimmer is not necessarily better.
Again depends on what you ultimately expect of the tool in performance and results...
Screwdrivers make poor hammers..knives make poor chisels...
Pliers are not wire strippers...
For MBC work I prefer to carry my tools in holsters..and my holsters vary by job and by my clothing...
Most of my Le and Security people wear holsters..even for their back up pieces...
As for Gunting, Chinook being toobig for your pocket..get looser pants..ROFL..
Can't fit that IWB holster wih your firearm? get bigger pants...
YOu want an ultra light, slimjim knife?
Don't expect it to slam n jam..
it might cut like the dickens..
But I expect an MBC tool to do ore than just cut..
happy holidays..
be safe
Bram
Any edged tool can be used as aan MBC or SDR tool..but is it designed to be..
As for ease of carry..
Lighter and slimmer is not necessarily better.
Again depends on what you ultimately expect of the tool in performance and results...
Screwdrivers make poor hammers..knives make poor chisels...
Pliers are not wire strippers...
For MBC work I prefer to carry my tools in holsters..and my holsters vary by job and by my clothing...
Most of my Le and Security people wear holsters..even for their back up pieces...
As for Gunting, Chinook being toobig for your pocket..get looser pants..ROFL..
Can't fit that IWB holster wih your firearm? get bigger pants...
YOu want an ultra light, slimjim knife?
Don't expect it to slam n jam..
it might cut like the dickens..
But I expect an MBC tool to do ore than just cut..
happy holidays..
be safe
Bram
-
Michael Janich
- Member
- Posts: 2999
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Longmont, CO USA
- Contact:
Dear Runningdog:
Thanks for the question. It's a good one that comes up a lot.
In my opinion, an MBC knife must have three primary qualities:
1) strength
2) the ability to cut and puncture
3) the ability to be carried and deployed easily
Strength is pretty self-explanatory. The worst thing in the world is a folding knife that lives up to its name at the wrong time.
As for cutting AND thrusting, that's my preference. Some folks are willing to sacrifice thrusting for more aggressive cutting and swear by kerambits and other cutting-oriented blades. If that's your choice, fine. Like anything else, just make sure you train hard to take full advantage of the tools you choose.
Ease of carry and deployment are necessary because the first rule of knife fighting is that you must HAVE A KNIFE. Don't pick something that you're not willing or able to carry with you at all times. It should also be something that you can get into action quickly with only one hand.
The reason for different sizes, weights, and shapes of knife is that people also come in different sizes and shapes and have different preferences. A Chinook make be too heavy for a 5'4", 135-pound guy, while it make seem like nothing to someone who's 6'2" and 200+ pounds. Conversely, the smaller guy may feel that he needs the heavier knife to support his style of knife use, so he builds his carry system around the requirement to carry a heavy piece. One excellent shooting instructor I know weighs about 145, but carries both a double-stack .45 and a Glock 9mm INSIDE THE WAISTBAND. That's what he feels he needs to keep himself safe and he's structured his carry system around those pieces. As the saying goes, where there's a will, there's a way.
Remember, it's your life you're protecting, so you need to make your own decisions. Learning from the experiences of others is good, but ultimately, you'll have to experiment and decide for yourself what you need to feel safe and how much you're willing to sacrifice to keep it with you at all times.
Great thread, cool ideas from everyone. Thanks for sharing.
Stay safe,
mike j
Thanks for the question. It's a good one that comes up a lot.
In my opinion, an MBC knife must have three primary qualities:
1) strength
2) the ability to cut and puncture
3) the ability to be carried and deployed easily
Strength is pretty self-explanatory. The worst thing in the world is a folding knife that lives up to its name at the wrong time.
As for cutting AND thrusting, that's my preference. Some folks are willing to sacrifice thrusting for more aggressive cutting and swear by kerambits and other cutting-oriented blades. If that's your choice, fine. Like anything else, just make sure you train hard to take full advantage of the tools you choose.
Ease of carry and deployment are necessary because the first rule of knife fighting is that you must HAVE A KNIFE. Don't pick something that you're not willing or able to carry with you at all times. It should also be something that you can get into action quickly with only one hand.
The reason for different sizes, weights, and shapes of knife is that people also come in different sizes and shapes and have different preferences. A Chinook make be too heavy for a 5'4", 135-pound guy, while it make seem like nothing to someone who's 6'2" and 200+ pounds. Conversely, the smaller guy may feel that he needs the heavier knife to support his style of knife use, so he builds his carry system around the requirement to carry a heavy piece. One excellent shooting instructor I know weighs about 145, but carries both a double-stack .45 and a Glock 9mm INSIDE THE WAISTBAND. That's what he feels he needs to keep himself safe and he's structured his carry system around those pieces. As the saying goes, where there's a will, there's a way.
Remember, it's your life you're protecting, so you need to make your own decisions. Learning from the experiences of others is good, but ultimately, you'll have to experiment and decide for yourself what you need to feel safe and how much you're willing to sacrifice to keep it with you at all times.
Great thread, cool ideas from everyone. Thanks for sharing.
Stay safe,
mike j
thanks for everybody's thoughts. It helps a lot.
with regard to carry: I'm not a large person (5'6" 130 lbs) and rarely carry a sheath/holster. That's partly personal preference based on having tried it and partly based on belt tools being "out of place" when I'm in the office. I like pocket carry for utility use but also IWB for SD, because sometimes I don't have pockets (when running, XC skiing, biking - which means blade steel also has to be fairly salt-resistant <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> ). I like to have the same set-up at work, home, play, etc, so everything is where I expect it to be. It makes sense that too light/slim etc might not be adequate to get the job done, so there must be minimum size, lock strength (MBC if possible), etc.
I don't know that a Gunting or Chinook would be too big because I haven't carried either. But both are capable tools for the job. I have carried a Lil Temp in pocket and IWB and it carries pretty well, but I think the G and C are both bigger. I'd sure like to try before I buy !! My guess is that the Yojimbo will be the "easiest" carry of any of these for me and I have reason to believe it will be effective for SD (compression lock, great steel, handle size, Mike Janich design...). I'll probably still buy other models (also the paramilitary) just because I like fine tools, even if not carried for SD they would serve well for utility use, and I admit I like knives!
Anyway, everybody will have their own preferences and the great thing is that there are a lot of choices. I'd be interested to know what led people to theirs.
Perhaps the Gunting appeals to people who want a broader range of options in a SD situation, the Chinook to people who like Keating's approach to knife use (don't know what I'm talking about here ??), ..., or maybe one knife or another fits your hand better, or you're like me and worry about how it looks to the people you work/live with?
happy holidays to everybody !
and thanks to Sal and Spyderco for giving us so many good choices!
with regard to carry: I'm not a large person (5'6" 130 lbs) and rarely carry a sheath/holster. That's partly personal preference based on having tried it and partly based on belt tools being "out of place" when I'm in the office. I like pocket carry for utility use but also IWB for SD, because sometimes I don't have pockets (when running, XC skiing, biking - which means blade steel also has to be fairly salt-resistant <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> ). I like to have the same set-up at work, home, play, etc, so everything is where I expect it to be. It makes sense that too light/slim etc might not be adequate to get the job done, so there must be minimum size, lock strength (MBC if possible), etc.
I don't know that a Gunting or Chinook would be too big because I haven't carried either. But both are capable tools for the job. I have carried a Lil Temp in pocket and IWB and it carries pretty well, but I think the G and C are both bigger. I'd sure like to try before I buy !! My guess is that the Yojimbo will be the "easiest" carry of any of these for me and I have reason to believe it will be effective for SD (compression lock, great steel, handle size, Mike Janich design...). I'll probably still buy other models (also the paramilitary) just because I like fine tools, even if not carried for SD they would serve well for utility use, and I admit I like knives!
Anyway, everybody will have their own preferences and the great thing is that there are a lot of choices. I'd be interested to know what led people to theirs.
Perhaps the Gunting appeals to people who want a broader range of options in a SD situation, the Chinook to people who like Keating's approach to knife use (don't know what I'm talking about here ??), ..., or maybe one knife or another fits your hand better, or you're like me and worry about how it looks to the people you work/live with?
happy holidays to everybody !
and thanks to Sal and Spyderco for giving us so many good choices!