What is the difference between all the Natives and what's new with the 3?
They don't seem to appear on the web site so what do they cost?
Native111
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glockman99
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Native III:
Handle is thicker.
Top of blade (swedge?) is different.
It has a wire clip.
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
Handle is thicker.
Top of blade (swedge?) is different.
It has a wire clip.
Dann Fassnacht Aberdeen, WA glockman99@hotmail.com ICQ: 53675663
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The Deacon
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Natives come in 4 basic flavors, but there are some additional handle variants as well.
BRK 1st Generation Native - considered by many not to be a "real" Spyderco Native, these consist of Spyderco marked blades made by Camillus in a FRN handle, and originally made for and sold by Blue Ridge Knives. The handles are identical in almost all respects to later production Natives. The blade, on the other hand, can be distinguished in several ways. First, it is made of 440A steel and marked as such. Second, the blade is laser engraved with "1st GENERATION BRK" on the hollow ground portion of the blade itself. Third, the blade tang is marked GOLDEN, COLORADO U.S.A., while the "real" Natives are marked Golden, Colorado USA, Earth. Fourth, there are nine thumb notches in the spine of the blade, newer versions have six larger thumb notches. Finally the blade is slightly thinner and has a smaller diameter cam than the later versions. This last, when combined with poorer quality finishes on both the cam and the lockbar, and a stronger spring than later models makes them feel rough and hard to operate. IMHO, unless you're looking for a cheap "beater" and can find one of these for under twenty bucks, it is best to avoid them.
Native Lightweight - also referred to at times as "Original Native" or "Native I". Shares the same FRN handle as the BRK version. This is IMHO, one of the best handles on any FRN Spyderco. Unlike most of their FRN models which use the "volcano" grip pattern, the Native uses a bi-directionally textured spider web design. Possibly to help distinguish it from the BRKs, these are marked Golden, Colorado USA, Earth. Older production runs of this model use CPM440V steel, the latest are CPMS30V. Both are excellent, but most folks give S30V the edge quality wise. Again the easiest and surest way to distinguish them from the earlier BRK model is the number of thumb notches, six for these versus nine for the BRK. Recent production has the "Boye dent" in the lock bar, older product on does not (not sure if this change coincided with the switch to S30V or not). IMHO, this is the smoothest, slickest, easiest opening lockback made. MSRP is $83.95
Native - also referred to as the "Native II". this is the stainless steel handled version of the Native. It is made in Seki City, Japan. Blade steel is AUS-10. The eleven thumb notches are smaller and shallower than any of the other Natives. MSRP is $94.95
Native III (or 3D) - this latest addition to the Native family is made in Seki City, Japan. Blade steel is VG-10. Handle is FRN, but in a unique contoured design that is thicker in the center, and tapers slightly toward the front of the knife, and more dramatically toward the back with a final flare at the butt end. It uses a combination of "volcano" texturing (which works considerably better on this knife than most others due to the contoured handle) and a pair of textured finger and thumb "pads" on each side of the handle, as well as raised ridges on either side of the lockbar at the front of the knife to aid in thumb positioning. Instead of thumb notches cut into the blade, like the other Natives, this one has six raised thumb bumps that project slightly above it. Lockbar has the "Boye dent". The blade also has a different swedge from the other Natives, tapering all the way back rather than being truncated. Also unlike all the other Natives, this one has a wire clip. This is, without a doubt, the most comfortable folding knife I've ever handled. Action is not quite as light as the regular Native due to a stronger lock spring, but it is smooth as glass and possibly a bit safer to carry tip up. As with all other Natives, the clip is R/L reversible, tip up only. MSRP is $69.95
Oh, should I mention the "Native Chief" - rumor has it that at least one prototype exists for this "super-sized" Native (4+" blade), gotta hope it makes it out of R&D and into the lineup one of these days.
Note that the prices above are MSRP, as with most Spycderco's these can easily be obtained for about 2/3 those prices.
Paul
BRK 1st Generation Native - considered by many not to be a "real" Spyderco Native, these consist of Spyderco marked blades made by Camillus in a FRN handle, and originally made for and sold by Blue Ridge Knives. The handles are identical in almost all respects to later production Natives. The blade, on the other hand, can be distinguished in several ways. First, it is made of 440A steel and marked as such. Second, the blade is laser engraved with "1st GENERATION BRK" on the hollow ground portion of the blade itself. Third, the blade tang is marked GOLDEN, COLORADO U.S.A., while the "real" Natives are marked Golden, Colorado USA, Earth. Fourth, there are nine thumb notches in the spine of the blade, newer versions have six larger thumb notches. Finally the blade is slightly thinner and has a smaller diameter cam than the later versions. This last, when combined with poorer quality finishes on both the cam and the lockbar, and a stronger spring than later models makes them feel rough and hard to operate. IMHO, unless you're looking for a cheap "beater" and can find one of these for under twenty bucks, it is best to avoid them.
Native Lightweight - also referred to at times as "Original Native" or "Native I". Shares the same FRN handle as the BRK version. This is IMHO, one of the best handles on any FRN Spyderco. Unlike most of their FRN models which use the "volcano" grip pattern, the Native uses a bi-directionally textured spider web design. Possibly to help distinguish it from the BRKs, these are marked Golden, Colorado USA, Earth. Older production runs of this model use CPM440V steel, the latest are CPMS30V. Both are excellent, but most folks give S30V the edge quality wise. Again the easiest and surest way to distinguish them from the earlier BRK model is the number of thumb notches, six for these versus nine for the BRK. Recent production has the "Boye dent" in the lock bar, older product on does not (not sure if this change coincided with the switch to S30V or not). IMHO, this is the smoothest, slickest, easiest opening lockback made. MSRP is $83.95
Native - also referred to as the "Native II". this is the stainless steel handled version of the Native. It is made in Seki City, Japan. Blade steel is AUS-10. The eleven thumb notches are smaller and shallower than any of the other Natives. MSRP is $94.95
Native III (or 3D) - this latest addition to the Native family is made in Seki City, Japan. Blade steel is VG-10. Handle is FRN, but in a unique contoured design that is thicker in the center, and tapers slightly toward the front of the knife, and more dramatically toward the back with a final flare at the butt end. It uses a combination of "volcano" texturing (which works considerably better on this knife than most others due to the contoured handle) and a pair of textured finger and thumb "pads" on each side of the handle, as well as raised ridges on either side of the lockbar at the front of the knife to aid in thumb positioning. Instead of thumb notches cut into the blade, like the other Natives, this one has six raised thumb bumps that project slightly above it. Lockbar has the "Boye dent". The blade also has a different swedge from the other Natives, tapering all the way back rather than being truncated. Also unlike all the other Natives, this one has a wire clip. This is, without a doubt, the most comfortable folding knife I've ever handled. Action is not quite as light as the regular Native due to a stronger lock spring, but it is smooth as glass and possibly a bit safer to carry tip up. As with all other Natives, the clip is R/L reversible, tip up only. MSRP is $69.95
Oh, should I mention the "Native Chief" - rumor has it that at least one prototype exists for this "super-sized" Native (4+" blade), gotta hope it makes it out of R&D and into the lineup one of these days.
Note that the prices above are MSRP, as with most Spycderco's these can easily be obtained for about 2/3 those prices.
Paul
Best way to stay away from the BRKs is to look for the blade steel.If it says 420a stay away.There are sone early real natives with gin 1 steel.
Also there have been G10 Natives made,a blue blade forums model in SE and PE.A Black G10 with blue shell inlay (PE)and brown shell(SE).All of the G10 Natives were limited production and are hard to find.
<img src=http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/image ... rforum.gif
Also there have been G10 Natives made,a blue blade forums model in SE and PE.A Black G10 with blue shell inlay (PE)and brown shell(SE).All of the G10 Natives were limited production and are hard to find.
<img src=http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/image ... rforum.gif
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4 s ter
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Contrary to what the Deacon said above, not all Golden Colorado, Spyderco manufactured Natives have the "Earth" marking on them. I have a CPM440V CE Native which is only marked "Golden Colorado USA". Therefore, the absence of "Earth" is not a definitive way of IDing the BRK Natives - the blade steel is.
David
"Not all who wander are lost"
David
"Not all who wander are lost"
Deacon,
On the Native III's I've found the blue FRN handled ones (forum and non-forum) have a much smoother opening that the black FRN handled one I have. I personally prefer the G10 and blue handled Native III's. Last I looked Johnfjensen still had the rootbeer G10 natives (SE) listed.
Be Excellent to each other.
On the Native III's I've found the blue FRN handled ones (forum and non-forum) have a much smoother opening that the black FRN handled one I have. I personally prefer the G10 and blue handled Native III's. Last I looked Johnfjensen still had the rootbeer G10 natives (SE) listed.
Be Excellent to each other.
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The Deacon
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Jeff and Boxer, thanks for filling in some the handle variants I glossed over and the marking that accompany some of them. Thanks again Jeff for the heads up on the GIN-1 blades, have not seen one of those yet myself, so did not realize they existed. Out of curiosity, since they are early production, do the GIN-1 Natives have 6 or 9 notches (or something completely different)? Think you may be wrong about the 420A though, mine (yeah, can you believe I actually bought one of them just to see if they were as bad as everyone said they were) and any I've seen on eBay where you could read the blade marking, are marked 440A.
Boxer, you may be right regarding the blue Native IIIs (which is what I have) being smoother than the regular production black ones, but the only black one I ever handled was just as smooth as mine. Thanks 4ster for the info on the Earth markings, good thing to know, I thought all the regular ones had it. My knowledge of Spyderco's, like my collection, is limited, but growing.
Paul
Boxer, you may be right regarding the blue Native IIIs (which is what I have) being smoother than the regular production black ones, but the only black one I ever handled was just as smooth as mine. Thanks 4ster for the info on the Earth markings, good thing to know, I thought all the regular ones had it. My knowledge of Spyderco's, like my collection, is limited, but growing.
Paul
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java
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Deacon,
Pretty fair coverage there. An interesting addition is the C41PSTN "Iraqi Freedom" Native. This one uses the original Native's bidirectional textured handle in tan FRN but uses S30V for the blade steel. Blade is etched with the following:
Operation Iraqi Freedom
"We pray for your safe return"
Spyderco and CPMS30V are etched on the ricasso near the pivot and the reverse has the Golden Colorado USA Earth text. The blade spine has 6 notches.
The original bi-D textured Native remains my personal favorite. The palm swells and texturing of the Native III make it an easy handling blade but I still like the "classic" Native best. The inlayed G10 versions aren't bad either and John F Jensen still had some Root Beer inlays at his site last week. Check 'em out!
Java
Edited by - java on 11/24/2003 1:24:50 PM
Pretty fair coverage there. An interesting addition is the C41PSTN "Iraqi Freedom" Native. This one uses the original Native's bidirectional textured handle in tan FRN but uses S30V for the blade steel. Blade is etched with the following:
Operation Iraqi Freedom
"We pray for your safe return"
Spyderco and CPMS30V are etched on the ricasso near the pivot and the reverse has the Golden Colorado USA Earth text. The blade spine has 6 notches.
The original bi-D textured Native remains my personal favorite. The palm swells and texturing of the Native III make it an easy handling blade but I still like the "classic" Native best. The inlayed G10 versions aren't bad either and John F Jensen still had some Root Beer inlays at his site last week. Check 'em out!
Java
Edited by - java on 11/24/2003 1:24:50 PM
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The Deacon
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Thanks Java, I did notice the G10 Native with the root beer inlay on Johns site back when I got my PE Rescue, PE stainless Calypso Jr, and PE Pegasus from him. Passed on it for two reasons. First, to place some limit on the rather obscene amount of money I've been spending on Spydies lately, I've tried really hard to limit myself to PE ones (although a couple of the CE SpyderKeys that have shown up on eBay have sorely tempted me). Second, one of my early purchases was a blue shell inlay Vesuvius that I bought without ever seeing one in person. The moment I laid eyes on it I knew there were no more shell inlaid Spydies in my future. Just not my cup of tea. The regular Native in S30V is my favorite Native too, loved it from the git-go and love it even more since I modified the handle a bit to allow full access to the thumbhole.
Paul
Paul
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java
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Deacon,
I have 2 of the inlaid Vesuvii. The adverts all said this was shell inlay but it seems more like celluloid. I am also a serious conchologist and malacologist - translated to read shell collector and mollusc-ologist - but I can't for all my studies place THAT particular type of shell! I opted not to pick up the the blue inlaid Native when it was available. The Root Beer inlay is a little more subdued and does not look too gaudy nestled in the G10. John is asking $80.00 and that’s not too bad for a serialed G10 Native.
I like the idea of a Chief too. I think a limited run with custom inlay work by David Yellowhorse would give it real authenticity........Sal????
Stay safe! Stay sharp!
I have 2 of the inlaid Vesuvii. The adverts all said this was shell inlay but it seems more like celluloid. I am also a serious conchologist and malacologist - translated to read shell collector and mollusc-ologist - but I can't for all my studies place THAT particular type of shell! I opted not to pick up the the blue inlaid Native when it was available. The Root Beer inlay is a little more subdued and does not look too gaudy nestled in the G10. John is asking $80.00 and that’s not too bad for a serialed G10 Native.
I like the idea of a Chief too. I think a limited run with custom inlay work by David Yellowhorse would give it real authenticity........Sal????
Stay safe! Stay sharp!
I actually picked up 2 of the blue inlaid natives hoping to find a customizer to replace the scales with Ivory Micarta. The G10 is nice but a little slippery on the 'shell'. Plus on these versions they beveled the scale for more hole exposure. But still the Blue BFC G10 is my favorite native. I love to try one of those Tan Natives <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Chris
Be Excellent to each other.
Chris
Be Excellent to each other.
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java
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<b>Chris</b>!
Ivory Micarta?? How about some antique ivory or bone scrimmed with an eagle or bison??? Mastodon ivory or stabilized gray/blue giraffe bone sounds like a pretty good insert as well. Best to y'all up yonder! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
<b>DavidS</b>,
Welcome aboard. Try johnfjensen.com for the Root Beer inlaid G10 Native. The others are hard to find and your best bet is e-bay or working a trade or buy at bladeforums.com BFC allows trading and I'm sure if you make your desire known, someone may have some of these "oldies". SFO was selling the blue FRN Spyderco Forum Natives earlier last month and although the run was limited, I have not heard whether all were sold. Best to you in your quest.
Stay safe! Stay sharp!
Edited by - java on 11/25/2003 3:47:55 PM
Ivory Micarta?? How about some antique ivory or bone scrimmed with an eagle or bison??? Mastodon ivory or stabilized gray/blue giraffe bone sounds like a pretty good insert as well. Best to y'all up yonder! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
<b>DavidS</b>,
Welcome aboard. Try johnfjensen.com for the Root Beer inlaid G10 Native. The others are hard to find and your best bet is e-bay or working a trade or buy at bladeforums.com BFC allows trading and I'm sure if you make your desire known, someone may have some of these "oldies". SFO was selling the blue FRN Spyderco Forum Natives earlier last month and although the run was limited, I have not heard whether all were sold. Best to you in your quest.
Stay safe! Stay sharp!
Edited by - java on 11/25/2003 3:47:55 PM
java,
All is well up here. I wouldn't mind some of those other materials (the mastadon looks cool). I wanted something that looked like ivory without any poachers benefiting from it. Would you know where to find a 'customizer'? I've been going through the knife makers pages at BFC, but they all seem to be makers?
Hope you get time off from the semiconductor mines for Thanksgiving.
Chris
Be Excellent to each other.
All is well up here. I wouldn't mind some of those other materials (the mastadon looks cool). I wanted something that looked like ivory without any poachers benefiting from it. Would you know where to find a 'customizer'? I've been going through the knife makers pages at BFC, but they all seem to be makers?
Hope you get time off from the semiconductor mines for Thanksgiving.
Chris
Be Excellent to each other.
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java
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Chris,
Getting ready to hit the hay for tonight's go-round. Back at it tomorow. No rest for the wicked I guess - but I do have my good side.... Might have Christmas off this year. Still have 2 company holidays to burn if not. I can do some research through the custom guys I know and see what pops up. There are after market artisans like Gary Blanchard and Linda Karst. Some of the makers like Centofante have been known to dabble in customizing but his current workload on customs is now 2 years out. I'm with you on the poaching. A lot of the ivory scales out there are old supply or from current legal sources (whatever those are). I would think mastadon ivory would be regulated as it is a finite resource but the high price tends to self regulate its use. Whalebone is another material that scrimshanders work with and supply is not nealy as limited. Not sure how it holds up for scales though. I have some blue stabilized scales on a Theuns Prinsloo custom hunter. I'm not 100% sure on the dimensional stability as it has developed a slight tick in the handle when sideways flexion is applied. Sorry for the ramble. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving. Best to you and yours in "Q"s.
Java
Getting ready to hit the hay for tonight's go-round. Back at it tomorow. No rest for the wicked I guess - but I do have my good side.... Might have Christmas off this year. Still have 2 company holidays to burn if not. I can do some research through the custom guys I know and see what pops up. There are after market artisans like Gary Blanchard and Linda Karst. Some of the makers like Centofante have been known to dabble in customizing but his current workload on customs is now 2 years out. I'm with you on the poaching. A lot of the ivory scales out there are old supply or from current legal sources (whatever those are). I would think mastadon ivory would be regulated as it is a finite resource but the high price tends to self regulate its use. Whalebone is another material that scrimshanders work with and supply is not nealy as limited. Not sure how it holds up for scales though. I have some blue stabilized scales on a Theuns Prinsloo custom hunter. I'm not 100% sure on the dimensional stability as it has developed a slight tick in the handle when sideways flexion is applied. Sorry for the ramble. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving. Best to you and yours in "Q"s.
Java
Transalations into English;
I am new to this forum and to serious knife issues in general. I posted a couple of questions re native and Blackhawk - and got lots of very serious replies -which I certainly do appreciate.
However, a lot of the answers don't mean a lot to mean; any specific field has it's own terminology and the world of Syderco is no different. So please couls somebody explain the following tems - again thanks for your time and patiences...
Here we go...
swedge
BRK
FRN
tang
PE
CE
SE
Ricasso
Root Beer
What can I tell you???
Thanks again.
At least the weather in Israel is decent.
I am new to this forum and to serious knife issues in general. I posted a couple of questions re native and Blackhawk - and got lots of very serious replies -which I certainly do appreciate.
However, a lot of the answers don't mean a lot to mean; any specific field has it's own terminology and the world of Syderco is no different. So please couls somebody explain the following tems - again thanks for your time and patiences...
Here we go...
swedge
BRK
FRN
tang
PE
CE
SE
Ricasso
Root Beer
What can I tell you???
Thanks again.
At least the weather in Israel is decent.
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The Deacon
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Don't feel bad David, we all went through the "What the heck are these folks talking about" stage. Spydercos, as you have found out do have a language of their own, although some of the terms you mention are more general. Ok, so here goes...
swedge - as used by me, this is another term for "false edge", the portion of the top edge of a blade that has been ground thinner to aid penetration, or reduce tip weight. Not present on all knives, the Native has a rather pronounced one, while the Delica, for example, has none at all.
BRK - abbreviation for Blue Ridge Knives when used in the context of the BRK Native
FRN - abbreviation for Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon, an inexpensive, but decently strong material for knife handles. Zytel is the trade name for one popular version of it. It consists of short lengths of fiberglass thread mixed into a "soup" of nylon and allowed to harden. G10, on the other hand consists of woven fiberglass cloth saturated with epoxy resin. It is more expensive to manufacture than FRN, especially as used by Spyderco as theirs uses more layers of glass than some. It is also considered to be stronger than FRN, but IMHO, on knives the size of the Native, unless you intend to abuse your knife terribly, this is no real advantage. Many do consider it better looking than FRN.
tang - the entire non-sharpened portion of the blade behind the sharpened edge.
PE - CE - SE - in connection with Spydercos, the "official" abbreviations for Plain Edge, Combo Edge (also called part serrated), and Serrated Edge (also call serrated or full serrated by some) Combo Edge Spyderco blades are sometimes also described by a pair of percentages that add up to 100, like 60/40 which would indicate a blade that was plain edge for 60% of its length and serrated for the remaining 40%.
Ricasso - I may be off on this but I believe it is the section of the tang that is exposed to view (the portion between the sharpened edge and the handle).
Root Beer - a couple Spyderco models have been sold with "shell" inlays in the handles. Most are a bright blue color, but some Natives were made with brown ones, and the brown were described as "Root Beer". Root Beer itself is a non-alcoholic carbonated beverage, brown in color. Prefer Ginger Beer myself. As far as the inlays go, some folks like them, some, like me, think they look like something that belongs on a toy.
Paul
swedge - as used by me, this is another term for "false edge", the portion of the top edge of a blade that has been ground thinner to aid penetration, or reduce tip weight. Not present on all knives, the Native has a rather pronounced one, while the Delica, for example, has none at all.
BRK - abbreviation for Blue Ridge Knives when used in the context of the BRK Native
FRN - abbreviation for Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon, an inexpensive, but decently strong material for knife handles. Zytel is the trade name for one popular version of it. It consists of short lengths of fiberglass thread mixed into a "soup" of nylon and allowed to harden. G10, on the other hand consists of woven fiberglass cloth saturated with epoxy resin. It is more expensive to manufacture than FRN, especially as used by Spyderco as theirs uses more layers of glass than some. It is also considered to be stronger than FRN, but IMHO, on knives the size of the Native, unless you intend to abuse your knife terribly, this is no real advantage. Many do consider it better looking than FRN.
tang - the entire non-sharpened portion of the blade behind the sharpened edge.
PE - CE - SE - in connection with Spydercos, the "official" abbreviations for Plain Edge, Combo Edge (also called part serrated), and Serrated Edge (also call serrated or full serrated by some) Combo Edge Spyderco blades are sometimes also described by a pair of percentages that add up to 100, like 60/40 which would indicate a blade that was plain edge for 60% of its length and serrated for the remaining 40%.
Ricasso - I may be off on this but I believe it is the section of the tang that is exposed to view (the portion between the sharpened edge and the handle).
Root Beer - a couple Spyderco models have been sold with "shell" inlays in the handles. Most are a bright blue color, but some Natives were made with brown ones, and the brown were described as "Root Beer". Root Beer itself is a non-alcoholic carbonated beverage, brown in color. Prefer Ginger Beer myself. As far as the inlays go, some folks like them, some, like me, think they look like something that belongs on a toy.
Paul
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danzomekahiro
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Hi Deacon, your grace,
May I use some of your excellent comments over on www.britishblades.com? I have three originals, a Forum Native III and a regular III. And I love 'em all!
Your comments are so perfect that I could not try and discuss the knife any better than you have already done. I would like to use them for our members when queries arise about the Native. Please say if you don't want them in another forum, but if you are OK with it then also come and visit us.
Thanks
Danzo
Edited by - danzomekahiro on 11/28/2003 11:04:03 AM
May I use some of your excellent comments over on www.britishblades.com? I have three originals, a Forum Native III and a regular III. And I love 'em all!
Your comments are so perfect that I could not try and discuss the knife any better than you have already done. I would like to use them for our members when queries arise about the Native. Please say if you don't want them in another forum, but if you are OK with it then also come and visit us.
Thanks
Danzo
Edited by - danzomekahiro on 11/28/2003 11:04:03 AM