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Stupid me

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:00 am
by Dragunov
I bought my endura 2 weeks ago. I didn't do my reseach and bought the old model with ATS-55. Doh.

They make the new ones with VG-10. <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Could've gotten a VG for the same price.

Anybody wants to trade? lol

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:47 pm
by vampyrewolf
don't discount the ats-55. vg-10 will chip, whereas ats-55 will dent/roll under heavy use.

been using ats-55 since day 1 with spydies(4yrs ago). and my delica that started it all made 2yrs in my edc, and that included cutting roofing shingles to put up a shed(among other abuses).

Current 2yr+ beater is ats-55 in the ss dragonfly, and coming up on 1yr is my ats-55 frn se endura(98 model)... shaves.

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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:18 pm
by swede
Welcome Drag:

I too have used and abused ATS-55, with great results. This is a tough, much-maligned steel. I don't know that VG10 is really any better in real life. I've never had a chip, or even as much as a serious scratch with this steel. It sharpens well and holds an edge. Don't fret.

In fact, I just got an ATS-55 PE Standard off ebay today. A great knife.


Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:50 pm
by Dragunov
I read somewhere (maybe here, maybe bladeforums) that VG10 is better in any aspect...

Less rust, tougher, harder etc.

I started to worry...

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:22 pm
by vampyrewolf
My VG-10 experience(6-7 spydies I think) so far, is that it holds an edge about 30% longer than ats-55 before it's butterknife dull. As I never let them get to that point(had to once just to see how long it took), thats not a concern. If you are comparing PE on them, the vg takes a finer edge, with a smaller grain structure then ATS-55. Plan to shave with it?

ATS-55(about 9-10 so far) takes a sweet edge, is soft enough to allow manipulation(convexes nicely, or thins nicely) and I have yet to have a problem with rust(and I eat off it and cook with it, as well as use it at work). My ss pe 'fly has been wet a *few* times, has gone through the laundry once(came out smelling spring fresh, but the LSA 0-158 killed that smell}, and stayed under my shirt in a neck rig when I was sick in early august(21hrs in bed) and the sweat did nothing to it.

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Mei Fides, Mei Victus
Coffee Before Conciousness
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:05 pm
by Alan2112
My two cents. You can't slip a piece of paper between 30V & VG-10, between VG-10 & CM-154, between CM-154 & ATS-55. With any of these steels I'm very content! RKBA!

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:11 am
by Dragunov
Why do they change to VG10 then? Is it just cheaper?

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:41 am
by dialex
Congratulations on your new knife. Don't regret a second! I am sure you'll be pleased of your Endura. Though VG-10 is "trendy", the ATS-55 is among my favorite steels. VG-10 is not cheaper, but is Spyderco's tradition to use the newest materials (that's why they replaced CPM-440V with S30V) <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:22 am
by pyton357ru
As far as I know, unless you work HARD wiht your knife (for ex. -- mass game caping or stuff like this) outdoors, you won`t have much problems with knife getting dull "all of a sudden". So edge holding is not as big issue as it is talked about. Also, I haven't had any problems with ATS-55 rusting. So be happy, and do not worry about "steel snobs" -- they are special breed.
I -- Dobro Pozalovat!!

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:13 am
by Zrexxer
It has long been my firm conviction that if the steel type were not stamped into the blade that you'd never be able to tell the difference in any premium steel. People read that one steel has a higher percentage of one alloying element, or a finer grain structure, and they start believing they can "feel" the difference.

Grain structure in similar tool steels in particular is almost impossible to detect in seat-of-the-pants evaluations. When metallurgists look at grain structures of steel the sample requires special preparation and is typically examined at 200x - 500x magnification. It's not something you can just run your thumb along the edge of a knife and say "hmmm, finer grain."


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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:18 pm
by Sword and Shield
I can tell the difference with carbon steels- ie. 1095 vs. D2 vs. 50100B. However, except for leaps and bounds in stainless (420HC vs. VG10), there isn't much difference. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:08 pm
by Wiz Kid
If it's a Spyderco they are all good. In my Spyderco edge-ucation, I have always been taught the VG10 is a better steel. For 1 there is more carbon in VG10 that will allow for a harder steel that will not chip as easily and will hold an edge much longer. I have both versions ATS55 & VG10 Delica and I prefer my VG10.

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:26 pm
by Zrexxer
Actually, not to dispute what you're saying Sword, because I think there ARE more pronounced differences in non-stainless steels. But interestingly, 1095 is a carbon steel, while D2 is what's more correctly known as a tool steel.

The 10XX series of carbon steels have carbon as the primary alloying element, 20XX steels are alloyed with nickel... and so on.

Tool steels are a whole different breed, from the levels of impurities in them to the furnaces used to make them. The American Iron and Steel Institute makes the differentiation in tool steels. D2 is a cold work steel alloyed with carbon and Chromium.

I kinda wish I'd stayed with metallurgy in college some 20-odd years ago; it's a really fascinating field!


"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H. L. Mencken