Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

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Wartstein
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#41

Post by Wartstein »

vandelay wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:55 am
.....

It's definitely got a niche if you like small blades but want something with a full size handle, but a niche item isn't going to be all the rage.
...
Yes, as said for me it is a very cool niche knife, emphasizing NICHE though - for example for people with really small hands who want the PM2 experience, or such with larger hands who are content with a big and bulky handle, but still only one good grip option.

Cause that´s one of the issues for me with the Para 3 (again, if seen as "the" universal small Spydie that gets so many variants) - yes, it has a full size, bulky handle, but this rather big handle is shaped in a way that it is actually a small handle when it comes to grip area (behind the choil). If it was shaped like a Sage handle, maximizing the available space, this would be better imo
elena86 wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:18 am
They lost the opportunity to design a Delica killer. The blade stock is too thick and ground too thick bte, the blade is wider than it needs to be in the hole area and the handle is slightly shorter and slightly wider than it needs to be. I carry my LW SPY27 one from time to time just because I like the steel and the handle color but most of the time I grab one of my Delicas when I need a similar folder. It’s not too late for a Para 3.2 I guess…
Yes, a Para 3.2, where they´d choose the "Endura to Delica" approach and shrink the whole knife - bladestock, handle thickness, handle tallness - and not just the length, would be a better option imo.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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vandelay
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#42

Post by vandelay »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:45 pm
vandelay wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:55 am
.....

It's definitely got a niche if you like small blades but want something with a full size handle, but a niche item isn't going to be all the rage.
...
Yes, as said for me it is a very cool niche knife, emphasizing NICHE though - for example for people with really small hands who want the PM2 experience, or such with larger hands who are content with a big and bulky handle, but still only one good grip option.

Cause that´s one of the issues for me with the Para 3 (again, if seen as "the" universal small Spydie that gets so many variants) - yes, it has a full size, bulky handle, but this rather big handle is shaped in a way that it is actually a small handle when it comes to grip area (behind the choil). If it was shaped like a Sage handle, maximizing the available space, this would be better imo
When I wrote that, I was thinking of the para 3 as choil-grip only. I suppose the handle is simultaneously too small and unnecessarily large depending on which grip you use.
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#43

Post by Wartstein »

vandelay wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:42 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:45 pm
vandelay wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:55 am
Yes, as said for me it is a very cool niche knife, emphasizing NICHE though - for example for people with really small hands who want the PM2 experience, or such with larger hands who are content with a big and bulky handle, but still only one good grip option.

Cause that´s one of the issues for me with the Para 3 (again, if seen as "the" universal small Spydie that gets so many variants) - yes, it has a full size, bulky handle, but this rather big handle is shaped in a way that it is actually a small handle when it comes to grip area (behind the choil). If it was shaped like a Sage handle, maximizing the available space, this would be better imo
When I wrote that, I was thinking of the para 3 as choil-grip only. I suppose the handle is simultaneously too small and unnecessarily large depending on which grip you use.

Yes, for me the Para 3 is definitely not that "large knife that carries small", but rather the opposite "small knife that carries large" ;) (which does not have to be a negative necessarily, don´t get me wrong).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#44

Post by Coastal »

I missed the whole Para 3 lovefest. When I started checking out Spyderco again a few years ago and came across it, I wondered why it was ever popular. To me it's the least compelling of all of Spyderco's mainstream offerings, for the reasons stated in this thread. There's not a single reason I would choose it over another Spyderco knife, and I haven't.
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#45

Post by aicolainen »

I agree with pretty much everything that’s been said this far.
Its Achilles heel really comes down to how big it carries compared to usable blade length.
This was really not the small PM2 I had hoped for.
Unlike many other here, I can’t fault it for its ergos. I have a perfect grip behind the choil.
With regards to how disappointed I was, it’s quite spectacular that I managed to buy two of them. Dang, Spyderco, how do you do it?
That’s at least one too many, but I’ll work that out eventually.
It never became the EDC-able, small PM2 I had hoped for, but the small blade with oversized grip and good ergonomics work very well as a work knife. For that reason I’ll probably always have room for one, but the P3 has certainly been more heartbreak than lovefest for me.
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#46

Post by R100 »

I feel strangely inspired to defend the Para 3.

The G10 version is an extremely solid little knife. If you are restricted to a shorter blade length but need a knife that you can be really confident in applying a lot of torque to then it's hard to beat. It makes the Delica look like a toy. I have used one in work situations where a larger knife is frowned on but I still need something I can force through harder small branches and other tough materials with. I never pry with a folder so I don't care about the fine tip. The big drawback is that it looks like a much bigger knife clipped to the pocket so I've removed the clip to carry it loose in the pocket and have the pivot tight enough that it has never come open by itself. I haven't had to work in "civilisation" now for some time so haven't used it lately.

The LW is an entirely different proposition. It disappears in the pocket with the deep carry wire clip and is the most discrete small knife I own. I also have the Native 5, Sage 5 LW and Delica 4 in this size range. They are all more obvious clipped to the pocket. I find the Delica handle just too small and need to use the choil on the others for a decent grip. Behind the choil I can only get a 3 finger grip. The N5 and the Sage just feel awkward held like this due to the shape at the end of the handle. Strangely, the rounded butt of the Para 3 allows me to tuck my little finger in behind it and get a secure 3 finger grip. The blade could be thinner of course but it still cuts well because it is so tall. I have the LW in 4V and Spy27 and with these steels they are my favourite small knives to carry clipped. Carried loose in the pocket, the Native 5 LW is my favourite.

Dan
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#47

Post by Cowboyfromhell »

I bought 2 around 4 years ago during the hype. The para 3 is actually one of my least favorites and have actually given one away because it just sat around.
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#48

Post by SpyderGrill »

I dont hate the Para 3 but I like bigger knives. I have 3 G10's and a LW I think, in my collection without looking. Ive never carried any of them. I have a friend who loves it and will not buy a Para 2.

Drop a 15V or a Magnacut blade in one and watch all the haters above buy it, or cry they cant get it. Greatest thing since sliced bread
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#49

Post by vandelay »

SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:39 pm
Drop a 15V or a Magnacut blade in one and watch all the haters above buy it, or cry they cant get it. Greatest thing since sliced bread
You're buying a steel rather than a knife at that point. That's how I ended up with a para 3. I wanted maxamet and it was the only option I could find with G10. It wouldn't work for a knife I dislike, but it works for a knife that I think looks a bit mediocre.
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#50

Post by Wartstein »

SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:39 pm
I dont hate the Para 3 but I like bigger knives. I have 3 G10's and a LW I think, in my collection without looking. Ive never carried any of them. I have a friend who loves it and will not buy a Para 2.

Drop a 15V or a Magnacut blade in one and watch all the haters above buy it, or cry they cant get it. Greatest thing since sliced bread

I am pretty sure you mean that ironically, right?

Cause I´ve not seen a single "hater" in this thread so far.

Not referring to you, but generally: It sometimes seems to me that if one realistically discusses the Para 3 and does not feel like it is the greatest small Spyderco of all time, but "just" a decent, nice , well made option, with its own pros AND cons this easily comes across as kind of an "insult".

This thread is actually about why the Para 3 was once so immensely (over?)represented when it came to sprints, exclusives and variants, and why this might have ebbed away a bit.

I still think this might be exactly cause, after the hype over the new "baby PM 2" was gone, people started to look more realistically again on what they really want in a small folder and especially really USE such a small folder for.
And there the Para 3 probably IS more of a niche knife. The niche might be a rather "wide" one, and many still might appreciate the particular Para 3 properties, but a small knife that is suited for a customer base as broad as possible it perhaps just is a bit too chunky compared to the cutting edge one gets, the blade a bit thick, and the handle not perfectly suited for many large hands, because it "has to" keep the shape of the bigger PM 2 handle.

Just my 2 c, and as I always say: Despite the Para 3 just can´t be my favorite small Spydie, I´d still take it over almost any knife of other brands in that size range (especially the LW).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#51

Post by Wartstein »

R100 wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:06 pm
....

The G10 version is an extremely solid little knife. If you are restricted to a shorter blade length but need a knife that you can be really confident in applying a lot of torque to then it's hard to beat. It makes the Delica look like a toy. I have used one in work situations where a larger knife is frowned on but I still need something I can force through harder small branches and other tough materials with. I never pry with a folder so I don't care about the fine tip. .....

Did you ever try a sabre grind Delica? This is a really tough beater knife imo! Does feel very rigid and strong (also the linered FRN handle), and I am sure due to the grind one could apply even more torque than on an ffg Para 3 blade AND would not have to worry about the tip (yes, I know, this is more about the GRINDS, not the knives themselves)

And tip strength not only comes into play when "prying" with a knife, but also when having to work very fast so that one can´t watch the tip and hits hard materials with it inevitably.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#52

Post by R100 »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:34 pm


Did you ever try a sabre grind Delica? This is a really tough beater knife imo! Does feel very rigid and strong (also the linered FRN handle), and I am sure due to the grind one could apply even more torque than on an ffg Para 3 blade AND would not have to worry about the tip (yes, I know, this is more about the GRINDS, not the knives themselves)

And tip strength not only comes into play when "prying" with a knife, but also when having to work very fast so that one can´t watch the tip and hits hard materials with it inevitably.
Never tried one of these but I'm sure you're right about how robust they are. I'm not a big Delica fan but, like you, the Endura is one of my favourite and most used knives. One thing I've noticed though is that I seem to have made the lock rock quite a bit worse on the ones I've applied heavy pressure to. I much prefer back locks in general but one advantage of the compression lock is how solid they are. It doesn't matter how much you swing on them, at least with the thick blade stock, they just remain rock solid. The one I have most come to respect is actually the Lil' Temperance 3. I've really given the G10 one some work and it's almost like a fixed blade.

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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#53

Post by Wartstein »

R100 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:08 am
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:34 pm


....
Never tried one of these but I'm sure you're right about how robust they are. I'm not a big Delica fan but, like you, the Endura is one of my favourite and most used knives. One thing I've noticed though is that I seem to have made the lock rock quite a bit worse on the ones I've applied heavy pressure to. I much prefer back locks in general but one advantage of the compression lock is how solid they are. It doesn't matter how much you swing on them, at least with the thick blade stock, they just remain rock solid. The one I have most come to respect is actually the Lil' Temperance 3. I've really given the G10 one some work and it's almost like a fixed blade.

Dan
True, a comp.lock does feel more solid / more "fixed - bladish'" than a Seki backlock!

I don´t mind lock rock, but can appreciate the quality feel of a pretty much complete blade play free folder (actually my CBBL Manix LW and my S35VN Tenacious (linerlock) do offer this too so far, but not my backlocks except the Chaparral).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#54

Post by aicolainen »

It's not completely clear to me if it's the supply or the demand that has dried up.

I can't remember there ever was an interesting sprint or exclusive that didn't sell like hotcakes. Even those in weird colors and less interesting steels seemed to vaporize quite instantly.
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#55

Post by Wartstein »

aicolainen wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:24 am
It's not completely clear to me if it's the supply or the demand that has dried up.

I can't remember there ever was an interesting sprint or exclusive that didn't sell like hotcakes. Even those in weird colors and less interesting steels seemed to vaporize quite instantly.

Interesting question.

I think part (!) of the huge Para 3 success actually was/is that the model is a perfect "just"-collectors item too.
It probably is attractive in being a cute baby PM2, and the more variants came out, the more it was/is kind of a "self propelling" thing in that people who enjoy collecting stuff and completing collections just wanted and had to have every possible color, variant and so on .

(To to be clear: Of course there are certainly also those and probably many who enjoy the Para 3 as a capable user and just like to really try it in different steels for example)
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#56

Post by Mrj »

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:59 am
aicolainen wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:24 am
It's not completely clear to me if it's the supply or the demand that has dried up.

I can't remember there ever was an interesting sprint or exclusive that didn't sell like hotcakes. Even those in weird colors and less interesting steels seemed to vaporize quite instantly.

Interesting question.

I think part (!) of the huge Para 3 success actually was/is that the model is a perfect "just"-collectors item too.
It probably is attractive in being a cute baby PM2, and the more variants came out, the more it was/is kind of a "self propelling" thing in that people who enjoy collecting stuff and completing collections just wanted and had to have every possible color, variant and so on .

(To to be clear: Of course there are certainly also those and probably many who enjoy the Para 3 as a capable user and just like to really try it in different steels for example)

Although the para 3 is my favorite. I think about it like this too: Remember the 90’s Chicago Bulls? Or the 90’s Dallas Cowboys?Or the 2000’s New England Patriots? Point being those who enter the world of sports always like the winning teams. And later when they aren’t on top the next big thing takes over. The para 3 has a particular following from the past 5 years. It seems most of you that aren’t into it as much are from before it was popular. I’m not sure what is replacing it nowadays but we are at the end of an exciting era. The cool off period. I think a salt version and some 15v will revive it some. Also I love how everyone has a different preference to which knife they love. This is why the knife world is so awesome. Keep the posts coming. These are the good threads.
MRj “Weak things break!”
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#57

Post by Dnwrghtsr »

I carry my para3 lw Rex45 when running or during long walks, normally on bike trails. It is perfect. Light weight, disappears in my pocket. I carry it for protection. Mostly from dogs, but I have also seen a person at dusk on the bike trail that was not there for exercise. I feel confident in the para3 because it is stout blade with a good grip. Thankfully I have never had to use it for defense, and it does all other knive things very well.
Lc200n, s90v, magnacut, 20v, 204p, cruwear, s110v, 15v, cts-xhp
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#58

Post by benben »

vandelay wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:13 pm
SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:39 pm
Drop a 15V or a Magnacut blade in one and watch all the haters above buy it, or cry they cant get it. Greatest thing since sliced bread
You're buying a steel rather than a knife at that point. That's how I ended up with a para 3. I wanted maxamet and it was the only option I could find with G10. It wouldn't work for a knife I dislike, but it works for a knife that I think looks a bit mediocre.
I admittedly bought my Para 3 just for the steel, at that time Cru-Wear was nowhere near as huge with Spyderco as it is now, in fact it was my first knife in that steel.
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#59

Post by brancron »

I don’t know if this has happened with anyone else, but over the years, I’ve started to prefer larger knives. I used to prefer the Para 3, then the Para 2, and now it’s basically the Military all the way, as far as that family of knives goes.
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Re: Para 3 Lovefest, Where Did It Go?

#60

Post by anycal »

Even if no direct hate, certainly not much love for it.

I got the original S30V model when it was first released. This was after I already had the Military and PM2. It fit that lineup well.

I found it to be useful during my home remodeling at the time, as the small size allows you to have great tip control. And, despite what some say, there is nothing wrong with the tip. Just ask my sheetrock, or roofing shingles, or 2x s, or falling onto the ground open.

Since then, picked up the Cruwear model for the steel, and Maxamet because of the great deal during seconds sale. Gave away the original G10 and the LW. Both loved by non-knife people who use a pocket knife.

The Para 3 G10 is still part of my rotation.


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