Sharpening Neglected Knives

[Scandi Grind]

I'm sure there are other sharpeners on here that have friends who aren't knife nerds like yourself but still use knives on a regular basis. Those friends find out you know how to sharpen, maybe they even try one of your knives and are impressed, but whatever the case, they ask you to sharpen their knife that has been used for the past 3 to 6 years without ever being sharpened. It is probably made in China out of inexpensive softer stainless and while the edge may not be abused it is definitely neglected, but you want to help your pal out so you agree to sharpen it.

In this situation I already know I am going to start with the coarsest stone I've got, which in my case is a 140 grit diamond plate. With that plate, even though I know I am going to be removing a relatively large amount of metal, maybe even re-profiling a little if the edge is too obtuse, I would still think, or at least hope, that it isn't going to take more than a half hour to get it apexed. Let's just say I'm a little shocked at how long it has seemed to take to deal with some of the cheap knives I've run into.

In this scenario, how long does it usually take you to get the edge apexed?

[Evil D]

Some of the "cheap" knives I've sharpened for other people are ground so dang thick it takes forever to put even a 40 inclusive edge on them, and I'm usually not going to waste my time going any lower than that on a steel that likely can't handle it and a user that will take it straight to opening soup cans anyway.

[Bill1170]

Cheap gummy stainless blades that are ground thick and abused are good candidates for powered sharpening solutions. 1 by 30 belt sanders, CBN wheels, anything that takes the brute labor out of establishing a proper apex. Then refine with diamond plates as desired. Coarse edges work far better than polished edges on such cutlery, don’t waste effort. Save your energy for better knives that will reward the effort.

[cjk]

just say no?

[standy99]

As a ex butcher I get a heap of requests to sharpen knives.
So if someone brings 6 knives for sharpening I usually only sharpen 3 and tell them to throw the other 3 out as they are cheap rubbish.

Cheap thick hardened stainless will ruin your stones

(Get a cheap pull through sharpening tool for the cheap knives and say nothing)

[jwbnyc]

Carbide pull through.

Say no more.

[JD Spydo]

Some of the "cheap" knives I've sharpened for other people are ground so dang thick it takes forever to put even a 40 inclusive edge on them, and I'm usually not going to waste my time going any lower than that on a steel that likely can't handle it and a user that will take it straight to opening soup cans anyway.

I hear that one loud and clear. I'm to the point to where I won't sharpen anyone else's knives unless #1 they will pay me an hourly wage to do it>> or #2 they must have a blade with decent to good blade steel. Most people that bring me kitchen knives have stainless blades from the 60s, 70s or 80s and they are for the most part completely worthless. And very few guys bring me hunting knives that are even worth sharpening.

The last time I went deer hunting with a group of guys I've known for years>> out of the 7 guys I was hunting with only 2 of them had blades that were even worth sharpening>> one guy had a Buck and the other guy had an SOG>> they were both slightly above average and that was the extent of it. They will not spend the money for a decent blade but they brag about spending $1500 to $2000 on their newest deer rifle. I just don't get people at all anymore.

And I've only ran into maybe 3 people in an entire year that know anything at all about quality cutlery. And I'm talking about smart people who some have 6 digit a year jobs. But yet they go to Rip-Mart to get their knives. And most of those are worse than neglected blades IMO.

[JD Spydo]

Cheap gummy stainless blades that are ground thick and abused are good candidates for powered sharpening solutions. 1 by 30 belt sanders, CBN wheels, anything that takes the brute labor out of establishing a proper apex. Then refine with diamond plates as desired. Coarse edges work far better than polished edges on such cutlery, don’t waste effort. Save your energy for better knives that will reward the effort.

Bill I know exactly what you're talking about. Because like I said in an earlier post people bring me those older stainless kitchen knives made with what I like to call "Chewing Gum Stainless">> and that's about the only way I can describe it. Older stainless kitchen knives from the 60s, 70s & 80s are mostly discount store trash.

Last year I had one older lady whose deceased husband had previously bought her a complete set of J.A. Henckel culinary blades. And those had some really decent steel in them. And she paid me very well to sharpen them>> and they will stay sharp for a while too.

[skeeg11]

The number of hunters out there with crap knives is really shocking. Almost as if knives are an afterthought and no more than that. I've field dressed and skinned more that a few carcasses for friends. One dentist friend of mine actually went deer hunting without so much as a pocket knife. He dropped a nice buck and spent the entire morning into afternoon searching for me all over Ft Hunter Liggett. Never seen a guy so happy when he finally did find me.

[ZrowsN1s]

As others said. If it's cheap steel, stick with 40 even 50dps. It wont handle lower well. Depending on the steel it can be harder to get 'sharp', than a decent steel at any angle. Manage expectations with your friends. Explain the difference in steels, let them know that their gas station knife is never going to be like one of yours (try to say it nicer than that). But there is a reason for the price difference.

[vandelay]

Maybe 5 minutes for a chipped blade on a DMT x-coarse stone. Those really chew through steel.

[Scandi Grind]

Cheap thick hardened stainless will ruin your stones

I have heard this before, but I am pretty curious how that is possible? I would never have thought that a cheap steel had any way of harming stones.

[Fireman]

Accept the sharpening and then give them a knife in return that is at least a half way decent knife. Heck, Spyderco has great knives that are incredible values in the Byrd line and the made in China ones

[billdoier72]

My friends always wait until the edge resembles the spine to ask for a sharpening.

[prndltech]

Belt sander is the only answer here

I use a ken onion work sharp with blade grinding attachment for most of my knives (even Spydercos) and it’s great and I highly recommend it (only with that attachment). I use a sharpmaker to microbevel as well…

[Cl1ff]

Maybe this is just me, but I dislike sharpening most thick knives about as much as I dislike sharpening a cheap neglected one.

I’m not the most skilled sharpener yet, so that’s probably why, but I find it much more difficult to apex something like a plain edge Saber Ground Endura, than I do thinner edges.

I haven’t sharpened an axe in a while, but I approach the sharpening of those kinds of cutting tools a little differently.

I think it must just be that I need to practice more and really develop the patience to raise a burr.

I only mention this because I recently sharpened a person’s neglected saber ground Endura and it was a nightmare for me even though I’ve had better success on other Saber Ground Spydercos before (still noticeably more difficult than other knives)? Just could not properly form a burr at all, and I think I’m at least conceptually familiar with most of the reasons why that would be an issue. I really wanted a loupe to look at the edge because I really wanted to see what was happening, but I don’t have any yet.

Sharpening every other Spyderco I have to hair shaving, from H1, to VG10, to 15V, has been relatively easy, on the other hand. The only perceptible difference is it that it was a thicker grind.

For now, I think I’m just not as consistent as I thought I was and the bigger/thicker bevels aren’t as forgiving. Just means I need to practice technique more, but I was planning on doing that anyway.

[BLUETYPEII]

Cheap thick hardened stainless will ruin your stones

I have heard this before, but I am pretty curious how that is possible? I would never have thought that a cheap steel had any way of harming stones.

I’m going to start by saying I’m no sharpening expert. I think cheap steel may clog the stones. By “clog” I just mean… instead of the steel turning to dust like normal it stays on the sharpening stone.


I have a KME knife sharpener and I bought a stone they call “The Beast”. It’s a 50 grit diamond stone, if you want to remove a lot of steel fast. That’s the way to go.

I have also been in the same boat being asked to sharpen cheap Chinese crap. Usually I just respectfully say no. However on occasion I will if they’re not in bad shape.

A lot of people don’t understand that tools should be respected and take care of. Too many people buy cheap crap, abuse it, throw it away and buy another one.

[Scandi Grind]

Wow, 50 grit, that ought to do some serious work! I've been thinking about grabbing some 80 grit sandpaper to see what that does.

[BLUETYPEII]

Wow, 50 grit, that ought to do some serious work! I've been thinking about grabbing some 80 grit sandpaper to see what that does.

Check this out.

It was a convex grind but very dull and I honestly have no idea how to sharpen a convex grind. So I re-profiled the edge to 40°. It’s not perfect but you could shave with it.

Edit: Took about 2 1/2 hours to apex the edge with “The Beast”. By the way you are supposed to take it very easy with the 50 grit otherwise you’re just going to sheer off all the grit.

[kennbr34]

Maybe 5 minutes for a chipped blade on a DMT x-coarse stone. Those really chew through steel.

How? I've got a lot of very coarse hones--an Atoma 140, a Shapton 120 and a Baronyx Knife Co "Manticore" that's a 60 grit SiC stone--but none of them will repair or reprofile a very blunt blade in less than an hour or two. I've heard similar time estimates before but can never understand how it's possible unless you're all using super fast strokes and tons of pressure or something, but even when I have tried that it doesn't seem to speed things up at all.

I'm also not really sure why people are suggesting soft knives are any harder to grind? I have just heard it's harder to deburr them.

In any case, yeah, if I need to sharpen a very neglected blade I just don't expect to be done with it in under an hour or two. If it takes longer than that I will just stop and come back to it the next day. But for most people who allow their blades to get that dull in the first place, I find they are not picky, and I won't bother to properly apex the edge again and raise a burr. I just get the edge small enough not to reflect natural light and if it cuts printer paper they're usually pretty happy with that. I've spent the time to raise a burr on a 40 degree edge and been told it was "too sharp" before, so I figure I might as well not waste my time overshooting expectations.