"hard use"

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Tristan_david2001
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Re: "hard use"

#41

Post by Tristan_david2001 »

I personally think this subject is being a little over thought about here. Hard use doesn’t have to have a concrete objective summed up meaning.
It’s relative and that’s okay. For me it really just means it requires more strength and force placed on the edge than ur average light use cutting chores like processing food, slicing open packages, threads etc. examples of hard use where it requires quite a bit extra force than those tasks would be like whittling/carving wood, cutting thick or dense straps, a situation of self defense, and maybe some light prying, but that can easily turn into abuse of the tool as well. And generally knives geared towards handling these kinds of tasks have a broader & thicker hand filling handle and a blade more on the robust side for thickness.
:bug-red-white
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Re: "hard use"

#42

Post by Vaugith »

Imo, "hard use" is any task that falls between on the light end basic light slicing that would be impossible to damage a knife with, and on the heavy end any task that could likely cause damage, which I would classify as abuse. For me, as an industrial electrician, my day to day tasks at work that I'd consider "hard use" Include stripping large wire, cutting or scraping duct tape off of pvc pipe that's splashed with hardened concrete or dirt, cutting or shaping wooden wedges out of scrap wood, such as pallet wood, and other similar tasks like zip ties and fiberglass pipe bundle straps. These haven't resulted in damage for me but often do prematurely dull the blade when a knife has a steel that doesn't specialize in strength/stability or has an improper sharpening angle for the task. I have, however, gotten scratches on the flats of blades from these type of tasks. Doesn't bother me but some might have an issue with that.

I see no issue with using a knife hard if you are willing to accept the consequences of the risks you are taking. It's your property, do what you want with it. In my experience spydercos shine brightest when used hard.
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Re: "hard use"

#43

Post by SpyderGrill »

Unfortunately, you wont see "hard Use" on this forum. Ive been asking to see it for a long time.

Only thing here you will see is how many feet of cardboard it can cut, how light is it in my waistband, and it cuts cheese and sausage on the mountain top.
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Re: "hard use"

#44

Post by BLUETYPEII »

I tend to take it easy on my folding Spyderco knives these days. I still have 3 folders that are my most used and I don’t hesitate to be a little rough with them but I’m still careful not to hurt them. I’m a little paranoid about damaging them since prices have gotten so high. If I was forced to hard use a folder the Manix 2 XL or a Shaman would be my first choice.

However I think a fixed blade is much safer and better suited for hard use. I’ve been leaning more to fixed blades for almost a year now.

Back in May 2022 I bought the Enuff leaf shape. Honestly I really didn’t expect to be impressed with this knife, I just wanted a smaller fixed blade with a low intimidation factor to use at work. Wow I completely underestimated the Enuff. I could probably go on and on about how great the Enuff is. It’s now my daily companion and my go to for hard use.
( I’ve always wanted to post a knife review here. Maybe I should do one on the Enuff. It’s a shame it’s discontinued)

EDIT: yes this meme definitely applies but is not 100% accurate for everyone lol
76419AD0-9014-4E07-841A-79C2153D56DA.jpeg
Last edited by BLUETYPEII on Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wartstein
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Re: "hard use"

#45

Post by Wartstein »

SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:54 pm
Unfortunately, you wont see "hard Use" on this forum. Ive been asking to see it for a long time.

Only thing here you will see is how many feet of cardboard it can cut, how light is it in my waistband, and it cuts cheese and sausage on the mountain top.

The last part makes me feel a bit like I could be one of those who you are referring to perhaps... ;)

Should this be the case: In my previous post viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94568#p1705489 you can read what spontanously came to my mind when asked about (folder!) "hard use" that I personally do (there will be more I just did not think of)

What you mean by "you won´t see hard use on this forum" and you "ve been asking to see it for a long time"? (Honest question, no offense!)
I´ve read many times here about Spydies being used in a way many will consider being "hard use" for a folder (admittedly: Yes, I am sometimes surprised too, how many Spydies on the flipside are still looking brand new after years and are seemingly mostly just carried at best, but not used a lot. Which is fine of course, if one chooses to do so, don´t get me wrong).

Here is one of the examples I brought when it comes to "hard use" viewtopic.php?t=79554&start=780#p1344045
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Wartstein
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Re: "hard use"

#46

Post by Wartstein »

Evil D wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:17 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:51 pm
Evil D wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:38 pm
Well, remember that lock/pivot strength also increases and decreases with thickness, so while a thin blade will require less force to cut rigid material, the pivot also takes less force to break. The best balance here is with a thicker blade stock ground thinner or a custom regrind. This way you retain the strength of thicker blade stock and lock contact area at the pivot but have a higher performance slicing blade.


Good point!

But honestly, in my own "hard use" I never felt that the 3 mm of an Endura would be too weak at the pivot area.

(Generally, not a reply to you anymore) What I still am not too fond of is the combination of thick stock, but fine tip (even started a whole thread about this once viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87156#p1437123)

Partly cause one aspect of "hard use", not mentioned yet, is when one has to work very fast and can´t take care of the tip due to that. In the example I linked in my previous post this would be for example when having to unload supply helicopter loads in very short time frames. It is inevitable then that the tip hits metal barrels and the like due to the speed one has to do the work in, and thick stock does not help at all, when fine tips snap.
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: "hard use"

#47

Post by Wartstein »

BLUETYPEII wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:11 pm
...

Back in May 2022 I bought the Enuff leaf shape. Honestly I really didn’t expect to be impressed with this knife, I just wanted a smaller fixed blade with a low intimidation factor to use at work. Wow I completely underestimated the Enuff. I could probably go on and on about how great the Enuff is. It’s now my daily companion and my go to for hard use.
( I’ve always wanted to post a knife review here. Maybe I should do one on the Enuff. It’s a shame it’s discontinued)

...

Agreed on the Enuff ("1")!!

When it comes to "hard use" it is amazing indeed! Most "hard use" tasks in my experience are really not slicing ones and a short blade is perfectly well suited (actually often BETTER suited than a longer one) then.

The thick 4 mm blade also makes for a stronger tip, which can be nice, and the ergos of the Enuff are probably the best I personally ever had on any Spyderco I´ve tried.

I had the clip point, but would certainly go for the leaf shaped these days, cause in for me typical "Enuff tasks" the lower tip of the latter is a pro.

Overall I still did not carry mine a lot, cause I practically never needed that level of strength, and for my regular tasks the blade was just a bit short, and a folder still carries more conveniently. So I sold it, but am really thinking about getting another one before they disappear...
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: "hard use"

#48

Post by BLUETYPEII »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:48 pm
BLUETYPEII wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:11 pm
...

Back in May 2022 I bought the Enuff leaf shape. Honestly I really didn’t expect to be impressed with this knife, I just wanted a smaller fixed blade with a low intimidation factor to use at work. Wow I completely underestimated the Enuff. I could probably go on and on about how great the Enuff is. It’s now my daily companion and my go to for hard use.
( I’ve always wanted to post a knife review here. Maybe I should do one on the Enuff. It’s a shame it’s discontinued)

...

Agreed on the Enuff ("1")!!

When it comes to "hard use" it is amazing indeed! Most "hard use" tasks in my experience are really not slicing ones and a short blade is perfectly well suited (actually often BETTER suited than a longer one) then.

The thick 4 mm blade also makes for a stronger tip, which can be nice, and the ergos of the Enuff are probably the best I personally ever had on any Spyderco I´ve tried.

I had the clip point, but would certainly go for the leaf shaped these days, cause in for me typical "Enuff tasks" the lower tip of the latter is a pro.

Overall I still did not carry mine a lot, cause I practically never needed that level of strength, and for my regular tasks the blade was just a bit short, and a folder still carries more conveniently. So I sold it, but am really thinking about getting another one before they disappear...
Yeah the Enuff… really great knife. I’m definitely one to carry multiple blades. I’ll usually pair the Enuff with my S30V DLC PM2 or my Caribbean leaf PE so I have my bases covered if I need a bit longer of a blade. I like to carry multiples anyway lol
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Cl1ff
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Re: "hard use"

#49

Post by Cl1ff »

SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:54 pm
Unfortunately, you wont see "hard Use" on this forum. Ive been asking to see it for a long time.

Only thing here you will see is how many feet of cardboard it can cut, how light is it in my waistband, and it cuts cheese and sausage on the mountain top.
Personally, I don’t really stop and take pictures or video when I’m actually using my knives. Maybe I should do that more.

If you haven’t seen the many posts here showing and describing well used knives or the testing performed by some of the members, in the time you’ve been on this forum, I don’t know what to tell you.

I occasionally dig up fossils with some of my Spydercos. Is that “hard use” enough?
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
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Wartstein
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Re: "hard use"

#50

Post by Wartstein »

Cl1ff wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:39 am
SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:54 pm
Unfortunately, you wont see "hard Use" on this forum. Ive been asking to see it for a long time.

Only thing here you will see is how many feet of cardboard it can cut, how light is it in my waistband, and it cuts cheese and sausage on the mountain top.
Personally, I don’t really stop and take pictures or video when I’m actually using my knives. Maybe I should do that more.

....

Same here.

I really like this forum, it is the one and only place on the internet / social media I am on (never been on facebook, instagram, nor am I on any other forum) and so I post a lot (too much actually).

But still I don´t feel inclined to adapt my real life to the forum ;) - and so I am almost always taking pics of my Spydies only when I take a break and hang out on the mountains or wherever anyway and have time and motivation for stuff like photos.
Not the case when I am actually using my knives (most of the times, occasionally I did take and post some use and "hard" use pics too).
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Evil D
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Re: "hard use"

#51

Post by Evil D »

I have to deliberately make an effort to take pics unless I'm doing steel or knife testing and then taking pics becomes part of documenting the process. Outside of work if I'm beating on a knife it's probably some kind of recreational activity and probably something others would be interested in seeing how it effects the steel or knife so taking pics is part of all of it for me.
All SE all the time since 2017
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Re: "hard use"

#52

Post by aicolainen »

SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:54 pm
Unfortunately, you wont see "hard Use" on this forum. Ive been asking to see it for a long time.

Only thing here you will see is how many feet of cardboard it can cut, how light is it in my waistband, and it cuts cheese and sausage on the mountain top.
Hahaha, this comment made me smile

While I think there is a lot of truth buried in there, Cliff makes a good point. It's really just when you cut your cheese (or sausage) on the mountain top that it's somewhat convenient to snap a picture, and barely then depending on the weather..

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Re: "hard use"

#53

Post by aicolainen »

Tristan_david2001 wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:30 pm
I personally think this subject is being a little over thought about here. Hard use doesn’t have to have a concrete objective summed up meaning.
It’s relative and that’s okay.
8< ----
While I agree with your basic argument of hard use being relative, I also think you are "over thinking" the purpose of this thread.
I think it's just for fun. Everyone understands that this is relative and subjective, and that there won't be a consensus output at the end of it. However it's interesting to see the subjective interpretations and get an idea of how wide the spectrum of subjective hard use really is.
One reason I find it so interesting is the typical scenario you often see on any knife related forum/group; a person wants to buy a hard use folder and asks for advice without giving much or even any context. Many times, but maybe not as often here, you will see lots of people getting involved and give very specific advice based on minimal information about the users actual need. It's quite hilarious when you see how widely we define it even within this forum of, lets say, slightly more likeminded users.
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Re: "hard use"

#54

Post by anycal »

...
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Re: "hard use"

#55

Post by Mushroom »

SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:54 pm
Unfortunately, you wont see "hard Use" on this forum. Ive been asking to see it for a long time.

Only thing here you will see is how many feet of cardboard it can cut, how light is it in my waistband, and it cuts cheese and sausage on the mountain top.
Be the change you wish to see. Why can’t you post your own photos in “hard use?”

;)
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Re: "hard use"

#56

Post by SpyderGrill »

Yes! I am going to change the knife reviews here. I have a few camping trips planned and will use a knife hard and give my opinions after.

Cutting 200 ft of card board on a recycle night is not what I want to read about when buying a new knife.
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Re: "hard use"

#57

Post by SpyderGrill »

Wartstein wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:14 pm
SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:54 pm
Unfortunately, you wont see "hard Use" on this forum. Ive been asking to see it for a long time.

Only thing here you will see is how many feet of cardboard it can cut, how light is it in my waistband, and it cuts cheese and sausage on the mountain top.

The last part makes me feel a bit like I could be one of those who you are referring to perhaps... ;)

Should this be the case: In my previous post viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94568#p1705489 you can read what spontanously came to my mind when asked about (folder!) "hard use" that I personally do (there will be more I just did not think of)

What you mean by "you won´t see hard use on this forum" and you "ve been asking to see it for a long time"? (Honest question, no offense!)
I´ve read many times here about Spydies being used in a way many will consider being "hard use" for a folder (admittedly: Yes, I am sometimes surprised too, how many Spydies on the flipside are still looking brand new after years and are seemingly mostly just carried at best, but not used a lot. Which is fine of course, if one chooses to do so, don´t get me wrong).

Here is one of the examples I brought when it comes to "hard use" viewtopic.php?t=79554&start=780#p1344045
Im not calling anyone out, but if your climb that mountain, make a feather stick, strike a ferro rod, make a fire, make a cup of coffee, cook up some beans...... You know, hard use. Your posts with all the quotation marks and parentheses makes my head explode trying to read it by the way
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Wartstein
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Re: "hard use"

#58

Post by Wartstein »

SpyderGrill wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:55 pm
Wartstein wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:14 pm
SpyderGrill wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:54 pm
...
...
Here is one of the examples I brought when it comes to "hard use" viewtopic.php?t=79554&start=780#p1344045
Im not calling anyone out, but if your climb that mountain, make a feather stick, strike a ferro rod, make a fire, make a cup of coffee, cook up some beans...... You know, hard use. Your posts with all the quotation marks and parentheses makes my head explode trying to read it by the way

:thinking I could be wrong, but you seem to be quite angry and try to prove a point, and I am not sure why exactly- ?

Anyway, if you try to prove whatever point I'd ask you to not just bring up random, made up examples but actually quote and discuss what people here actually list as their folder hard use.

Yes, I also "make feather sticks, a fire and coffee", but never even called that hard use and literally listed in my first post here ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94568#p1705489) what I consider as folder (!) hard use that I actually do, including

- cutting sheath metal
- twisting the edge in hard wood
- prying hard wood apart
- generally prying
- batoning
- drilling holes with the tip
- cutting tough, man made material
- forcing the blade under zip ties, twisting and turning it there to cut those...

I also gave one example for my hard use ( viewtopic.php?t=79554&start=780#p1344045 ), where I have to work very fast while unpacking helicopter loads, cut all kinds of packing straps and materials, hit the metal of barrels with blade and tip....

I am happily awaiting your reply if these things count as (folder) hard use for you or not (they might not, but "making feathersticks and coffee" is made up by you, and nothing I actually listed as my "hard use")
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
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Re: "hard use"

#59

Post by cabfrank »

Man, then just stop reading them then. Easy, right? Why be critical of someone else's style?
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Re: "hard use"

#60

Post by cabfrank »

^
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