Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#21

Post by benben »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:30 am
I find the Manix2 to be a chunky pocket hog with mediocre ergos and superfluous jimping. I think the Para2 is over hyped but I definitely prefer it over the Manix2.
You have some great points! I do prefer the Manix 2 over the PM2 myself. Maybe it's time for a Manix 3?

I do have some design thoughts on what I think would make THE perfect Manix, and you hit on a couple of those points. So just in case Sal and Eric need any help....I'm always here! ;)
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#22

Post by Gtscotty »

As others have said, the Manix 2 is a pocket hog, I think it takes up the most pocket real estate of any knife I have in that blade range... Kind of annoying. Also, I prefer the locking dingus in my Axis locks and axis knockoffs to be fully steel a la Benchmade and Hogue.

The PM2 on the other hand, is excellent.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#23

Post by z1r »

Hmm, for me, I tend to carry a PM2 more often than an M2. But, that is probably because most of my cutting needs don't require a knife as sturdy as the M2. But when I anticipate some heavy duty cutting, an M2 always finds it's way into my pocket. Don't see myself ever getting rid of either model.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#24

Post by anycal »

If you let a status of an object dictate your choices, both for or against, it is what it is. On the other hand, some things are popular for the right reason, as I believe is the case with the PM2.

Blade shape, as it pertains to these two models, make no difference to me for my uses. Same with weight of the G10 Manix. The base model does add an ounce compared to the PM2, but most releases are skeletonized, which cuts that difference to less than 1/2 ounce. The smaller footprint of the PM2 is a preference in specific circumstance, but also not a big factor.

Lock and ergonomics is what makes the PM2 a better knife for me.

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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#25

Post by JoviAl »

If I *had* to choose one or the other I’d have to go with a 15V PM2…which I would immediately sell and buy a smorgasbord of mules with the proceeds 😜
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#26

Post by RustyIron »


Easy:
The PM2 is a prettier knife. It's svelte and elegant.
The look of the M2 is more chunky and robust.

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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#27

Post by Guts »

I like them both, but objectively the standard G10 Manix is heavier by roughly 1.2oz, thicker in overall pocket profile, and it doesn't necessarily do anything better as a pocket knife than the PM2 does for me. Ergos I like both and don't have any issues with hotspots with either in heavy use, but I'm not particularly picky on that front compared to most I think. I do like the leaf shape blade aesthetically on the Manix over the modified clip point(?) on the PM2, and maybe the leaf shape may have a stronger tip. Though I've never personally broken a tip on either a PM2 or Manix since I don't pry with them lol. The lightweight Manix exists and I own a couple, amazing weight for the size but I do find the G10 version to be more comfortable in extended usage. I'd like to see a lightweight PM2 someday to compare. While both models work well for me, if I had to choose a Manix, it would be a G10 skeletonized liner version at least. Even in that config, the Manix definitely feels more like a tank though compared to the PM2, which isn't a bad thing, I just don't think it needs the full 5oz to do so when you can get the same robustness in 4.13oz or whatever the sprint run skeletonized version is. Having to resort to getting a sprint run to get that lighter weight G10 version I consider a downside though.

Manix has a self close bias like on back locks which could be a plus for some, and the PM2 doesn't. I grew up using liner locks so I didn't even know what a self close bias was until I started getting deeper into the hobby. That is to say, whether it has one or not doesn't matter to me either way, never had a knife open in my pocket in the tip up config with a deep carry clip. For locks I don't prefer one over the other really. I owned a Benchmade Axis lock knife long before I owned any Spydercos, so the Manix was easier to pick up right away, but I've grown to love the compression lock more.

At least in my own experiences, I've found the Manix isn't a knife I'd hand to non knife people or people that just don't have the finger strength. The lock is objectively known to be very stiff to operate out of the box and have seen first hand people I've handed the knife to struggle with the Manix lock. A whole secondary market popped up around the Manix just to address the lock stiffness or lack of grip on the polymer cage after all. While the compression lock may be confusing at first to a new user familiar with a more traditional liner lock, it doesn't require nearly as much strength to operate. So that's one of the additional considerations I have when choosing between the PM2 and Manix. I know I can use both fine, but if I had to hand it to someone, could they use it?

As far as the knife actions go, never been a huge action snob. Definitely have had some better than others for both models, but as long as I can open/close in one smooth motion that's all that matters to me. Both the Manix and PM2 are capable of that in the examples I own whether they need tuning or not.

Didn't figure this reply would end up being so long, but I've obviously thought about it a lot over the years. So taking into account all of the above, the Manix doesn't do anything objectively better for me as a pocket knife than the PM2 does, so I tend to gravitate towards the latter due to the above reasons, but honestly I still really love both. A smaller ~3" Manix has been on my wishlist for a long time. At the end of the day, as a fan of Spyderco and of both models, I don't have to choose just one
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#28

Post by mongo1958 »

horzuff wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:51 am
Those are different enough models that I think it's impossible to state one is better/worse than the other.

However I would be very much interested in a hybrid (Para Milix? Para Manixtary? Not there yet maybe... :D). A Para 2 with an almost Manix blade just slightly narrower, but keep the leaf shape and 3mm spine. Keep the Para lock and handle as the Manix's handle is a bit too wide for me (due to the lock) and maybe squeeze a tiny bit more blade into the handles and I'm 100% sold.

So basically a para 2 with leaf blade and couple more mm edge length and less spine thickness

Edit: I guess I just want a compression lock Caly 3,5 / Calypso with a slightly beefed up handle...
Wouldn't the Native Chief fill that niche?
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#29

Post by Fireman »

Why is the Manix 2 so popular when the Manix 2XL is objectively better?
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#30

Post by electro-static »

Guts wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:28 am
I like them both, but objectively the standard G10 Manix is heavier by roughly 1.2oz, thicker in overall pocket profile, and it doesn't necessarily do anything better as a pocket knife than the PM2 does for me. Ergos I like both and don't have any issues with hotspots with either in heavy use, but I'm not particularly picky on that front compared to most I think. I do like the leaf shape blade aesthetically on the Manix over the modified clip point(?) on the PM2, and maybe the leaf shape may have a stronger tip. Though I've never personally broken a tip on either a PM2 or Manix since I don't pry with them lol. The lightweight Manix exists and I own a couple, amazing weight for the size but I do find the G10 version to be more comfortable in extended usage. I'd like to see a lightweight PM2 someday to compare. While both models work well for me, if I had to choose a Manix, it would be a G10 skeletonized liner version at least. Even in that config, the Manix definitely feels more like a tank though compared to the PM2, which isn't a bad thing, I just don't think it needs the full 5oz to do so when you can get the same robustness in 4.13oz or whatever the sprint run skeletonized version is. Having to resort to getting a sprint run to get that lighter weight G10 version I consider a downside though.

Manix has a self close bias like on back locks which could be a plus for some, and the PM2 doesn't. I grew up using liner locks so I didn't even know what a self close bias was until I started getting deeper into the hobby. That is to say, whether it has one or not doesn't matter to me either way, never had a knife open in my pocket in the tip up config with a deep carry clip. For locks I don't prefer one over the other really. I owned a Benchmade Axis lock knife long before I owned any Spydercos, so the Manix was easier to pick up right away, but I've grown to love the compression lock more.

At least in my own experiences, I've found the Manix isn't a knife I'd hand to non knife people or people that just don't have the finger strength. The lock is objectively known to be very stiff to operate out of the box and have seen first hand people I've handed the knife to struggle with the Manix lock. A whole secondary market popped up around the Manix just to address the lock stiffness or lack of grip on the polymer cage after all. While the compression lock may be confusing at first to a new user familiar with a more traditional liner lock, it doesn't require nearly as much strength to operate. So that's one of the additional considerations I have when choosing between the PM2 and Manix. I know I can use both fine, but if I had to hand it to someone, could they use it?

As far as the knife actions go, never been a huge action snob. Definitely have had some better than others for both models, but as long as I can open/close in one smooth motion that's all that matters to me. Both the Manix and PM2 are capable of that in the examples I own whether they need tuning or not.

Didn't figure this reply would end up being so long, but I've obviously thought about it a lot over the years. So taking into account all of the above, the Manix doesn't do anything objectively better for me as a pocket knife than the PM2 does, so I tend to gravitate towards the latter due to the above reasons, but honestly I still really love both. A smaller ~3" Manix has been on my wishlist for a long time. At the end of the day, as a fan of Spyderco and of both models, I don't have to choose just one
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I have to agree, I lent my PM2 to my wife while camping and with no experience she could figure out the lock and use it pretty easily. The stiffness on the CBBL however has put off everyone I have lent a manix 2 to. I think the PM2 is also easier to fidget with because the lock is less stiff, which makes EDC influencer crowd happy.

I think being smaller in the pocket helps the PM2 immensely as well.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#31

Post by WilliamMunny »

For me it is a tossup between the two. I think the biggest plus of the PM2 over the Manix 2 is the blade edge length, PM2 3.1" vs Manix 2 2.92". That is close to a .25" difference for basically the same size knife. I just always felt the useable edge length on the Manix 2 was small for the size of knife.

If I had to put them into categories:
EDC Jack of all Trades = PM2
Lost in the woods = Manix 2

Either knife is amazing and can do what the other one can but it's how I think of them. I just can't wait to try a Shaman, feels like it is if the Manix and PM2 had a big baby, best of both worlds.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#32

Post by jmj3esq »

Clearly this is a SUBJECTIVE popularity.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#33

Post by Wartstein »

- Differently to many I find the Manix a clearly better carry by its shape (can't talk about weight, only have experience with LW Manixes):
Shorter in pocket, and the slim handle end provides kind of a ramp that guides the hand by the knife in pocket.
PM2 handle end on the flipside "blocks" access to the pocket

- CBBLfor me personally better than comp.lock especially on a worknife: Safer in operation and in pocket, makes for better ergos

Pro PM2 though : A bit more cutting edge and straight spine (such comes in handy for me especially in winter time for scraping excess wax off the running surface of my skies or snow that builds up on climbing skins for touring skies)

- Overall I prefer the Manix (LW), but if the PM2 had a linerlock (or CBBL) this could change
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#34

Post by Coastal »

To me, the Manix 2 LW is head and shoulders better than the G-10 version of either knife. It seems almost miraculous to get all that blade in such a light knife that feels so good in hand, and it's plenty strong enough for my uses.

I like the G-10 version of the Manix better than the PM2 out of the box because to me the PM2 isn't as comfortable in hand, and I'll take a CBBL over a compression lock 10 times out of 10.

Modified with aftermarket scales (Flytanium Lotus for the PM2, Rockscales linerless Ti for the Manix 2), both knives are transformed. It's almost like having totally different knives, and both are awesome. If both had CBBLs, I might prefer the PM2 but, as it is, I'd rank them:
1) Rockscales Manix 2
2) Flytanium Lotus PM2
3) Manix 2 LW
4) Manix 2 G-10
5) PM2 G-10

Considering aftermarket parts seems like cheating but, even so, it's clear I slightly prefer the Manix over the PM2.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#35

Post by Foehammer »

Blade shape on the Manix is incredible, but the overall ergos and carry profile just didn’t agree with me and my preferences. Great knife still, I myself heavily prefer the pm2.

That being said a Manix with AWT scales will definitely be in my collection at some point in the future.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#36

Post by RamZar »

Choosing a knife is almost ALL about subjectivity. The objective criteria comes from company reputation, quality (materials and workmanship), warranty, etc.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#37

Post by ladybug93 »

this week on how to see who reads posts before commenting, we have a bunch of people giving lessons on objective vs subjective after the post starts out by saying the claim is tongue in cheek. good grief...
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#38

Post by RamZar »

ladybug93 wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:37 pm
this week on how to see who reads posts before commenting, we have a bunch of people giving lessons on objective vs subjective after the post starts out by saying the claim is tongue in cheek. good grief...

All you needed to read was:

"Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Ok, part of that is tongue in cheek to tick off the PM2 fans :P
But seriously I really don't understand what people prefer about the PM2."
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#39

Post by mongo1958 »

JRinFL wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:45 am
. I think it might be due to the Para 2 having a look much closer to more traditional knife designs but still offering Spyderco's unique touches.
Wait, what!?!?!? :zany :rofl
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?

#40

Post by mongo1958 »

prndltech wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:49 am
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One is not better than the other. Just different.
LOL :rofl
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