I'll mention it to Eric but frankly, for some reason, our customer base has never responded well to recurves.
The concept of a recurve blade is to put the weight, or add more weight towards the tip of the blade. This is highly functional for chopping or in swinging a larger blade to make it a more effective cutter. On a folder, the added weight to the tip is not necessarily a plus. The khukri is a good example of the magnified force in a large knife/sword/machete.
sal
Mr. Glesser please think about this for a moment. Did you sell very many Hawkbill blades in PE? From what I've seen over the past two decades you sell many, many more Hawkbills ( especially the Harpy) in SE. And over the years I've owned and tried to use both PE & SE Hawkbills and I've found that I use a fully serrated Hawkbill far more than I ever would a plain edge.
So maybe? Just Maybe the reason you haven't sold very many Recurve blades is because they've never been available in SE.
Just make a few, maybe about 500 or so of a full SE ULIZE or SPYKER and see what the guys and end line users say about them. If nothing else one Sprint Run of some full SE ULIZE would make for some really rare collectibles that most hard core collectors will grab up in pretty quick order. I seriously doubt if you would lose a dime trying.
Personally I can't wait to try out a full SE Recurve. And I'm sure David (Evil D) is also salivating to try one himself. And we're not alone either.
For the record, I tend to avoid recurves and I don't think I'm in the minority. It seems like this might not be the best use of limited resources, if I'm honest.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
For the record, I tend to avoid recurves and I don't think I'm in the minority. It seems like this might not be the best use of limited resources, if I'm honest.
And until I got a Spyderco Harpy model in full SE (around 2004) I never really had much use for Hawkbill type blades my own self. I do think that some designs do much, much better in a fully serrated version. Ask yourself how many HARPY, SPYDERHAWK, MERLIN or TASMAN models would have sold if they were not available in full SE.
I'm not the biggest fan of Recurve blades in general myself. But I know in my gut that a Recurve with TEETH would be a completely different animal all together.
For the record, I tend to avoid recurves and I don't think I'm in the minority. It seems like this might not be the best use of limited resources, if I'm honest.
And until I got a Spyderco Harpy model in full SE (around 2004) I never really had much use for Hawkbill type blades my own self. I do think that some designs do much, much better in a fully serrated version. Ask yourself how many HARPY, SPYDERHAWK, MERLIN or TASMAN models would have sold if they were not available in full SE.
I'm not the biggest fan of Recurve blades in general myself. But I know in my gut that a Recurve with TEETH would be a completely different animal all together.
Using another brand since I don't have Spyders to compare, my Talwar in full SE easily out cuts my Voyager Vaquero in full SE when cutting cardboard. I'm not sure why, but the cardboard seems to pack into the SE scallops and hinders the cutting action. Yes, I realize the SE pattern is very different between CS & Spyderco and that other material may also show increased performance of the Vaquero over the Talwar. Also my data set is only one of each model.
I'd be interested in trying a partial SE recurve with the convex part being SE and the concave part being PE. IMO, that would be the best of both worlds.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
For the record, I tend to avoid recurves and I don't think I'm in the minority. It seems like this might not be the best use of limited resources, if I'm honest.
I agree, resources could be much better used elsewhere!
My preferences are almost always outside of what is generally accepted here, but I'm picturing a deep inside curve and big belly with a decent amount of upsweep. Not really sure what existing handles could support that, assuming a fixed blade is out of the question.
The Resilience/Tenacious might make a good handle to house that blade shape. Lower cost might encourage more people to try it out (like myself).
If it has similar curves as the Ulize, I don't think I'd find much use for it compared to any other "normal" blade shape. It needs to be a bit more dynamic before I will really consider buying it. The Ulize, IMO, is barely a recurve.
Though it doesn't see much carry time anymore, my modded ClipiTool Standard (yes, I know it's ugly) was quite useful and versatile. Would be even better with more belly for cutting on a flat surface and slicing cuts.
The SpyKer is a grail knife of mine. I’ve been eyeing some on the secondary market.
It is somewhat similar to a Military, but I love recurves and think it’s an epic design.
Very unlikely that knife will ever be made again I think.
In my opinion, even somewhat subtle recurves like the Ulize make a significant difference in cutting performance.
I like the idea of a fully serrated recurve, but I’d like to have any recurve at all in an efficient and good sized working knife.
About 8 years ago I got in a financial bind and had to sell 3 collector blades and the Spyderco SPYKER was one of them unfortunately. And since then I've never been able to snag another one. But I loved the solid feel to the knife and I firmly believe that the Spyker and/or ULIZE both would be ferocious with a serrated edge.
Some knives just give you a feel of confidence when you handle them. That SPYKER was a great example of that and I would love to see a Sprint Run of that model ( SE & PE both). The handle on that Spyker model reminded me of the excellent fit similar to the TEMPERANCE 1 fixed blade model. I truly believe there are a lot of great models that would really do much better with TEETH. It was like a Recurve model with muscle is the best way I could describe it.
OK, I let Eric know of this thread. Neither Eric nor I have the time to design another new model. We're both working on many designs. SSSssooooo, Considering an existing model, that is not a collaboration (which get's more complicated), what model would you like to see with a recurve blade?
sal
1) Stretch 2 XL SE -- inexpensive, VG-10 would be a near-perfect steel, already a great design to begin with
2) Police 4 SE -- inexpensive in VG-10, it's got a lot of blade, I'd love to see a serrated recurve in K390
3) Military SE -- sentimental favorite for me, but its cost alone might limit people trying it.
I'm really vibing on a Stretch 2 XL SE LW recurve in VG-10. And really vibing on a G-10 version in a premium steel if the base model proves popular enough.
Okay, now I’ve given some thought into Sal’s earlier request for blade shape variations of existing models.
Some of the models mentioned aren’t bad ideas. I think a Military or Stretch XL recurve would be excellent.
However there are other candidates I think would fit the shape better (generally knives without a choil).
Civilian.
It’s similar the Military in the handle profile. The best large backlock candidate currently in production.
Rockjumper/Leaf jumper.
I think a recurve would fit the design as well as it’s intended purpose. It would grab rope incredibly well. (I’ve wanted a handle forward recurve from the moment I saw a Rockjumper and have since designed a few). I was thinking of entirely new models, but another blade variant of the rockjumper works well for me.
My ideal knife is a handle-forward backlock Salt, recurved blade, with subtly contoured FRN scales. Just putting that out there for fun.
Shaman.
Could be any planned or existing variant, but I think this would be great.
Caribbean.
Perfect for this. The serrated options have been discontinued (I love mine though), but maybe the SpyderEdge could come back on a recurve.
This design also has lot of room and a lot of edge. I like Salts and Recurves, because they’re the best for my uses, so this is another option I’m especially interested in.
For the Value Spydercos and Byrds i think the best candidates are these:
Resilience.
Polestar. (This is my preferred one).
Byrd Flight.
I think the fixed blade that’s perfectly ready for this would be the Enuff 2. It’s sheath can accommodate different blade shapes and the Enuff was traditionally offered in Clip Point, Spear Point, and Sheepsfoot.
Bonus if it’s a Salt that comes in SpyderEdge. Again, I think the utility of recurves is really overlooked in applications that require a particularly reliable cut even without serrations. The recurve will pull cut a rope, line, or branch better than anything.
I’m not really a fan of overly blunt or wide-tipped recurves, which is something that I think is way too common. They can and should be as pointy as your typical clip point or straight spine. That is my opinion.
I’ve wanted to talk about recurves for a while, so it’s nice to see discussion. Even if some are still skeptical.
I’ve designed a number of recurves that I think are good and new designs (just paper for now), but I hadn’t considered blade shape variations on existing Spydercos. Maybe if something like a recurve Military 2 is well received, it would bring some popularity to what I think is the most misunderstood blade shape.
My favorite non-Spyderco fixed blades are my old Kukri and an oldish British military knife I turned into a recurve after some insufferable kid (me) took a chunk out of the edge. I have a new small Kukri (they’re not always exceptionally big and heavy/clumsy choppers) on the way from Nepal to test out as well.
There is such a long history of recurved blades, so I’m pretty sure I’m not crazy to prefer them. Maybe the recurve crowd has just been a stubborn group throughout?
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
I have some recurves with partial serrations. I think putting the serrations inside the curve increases effectiveness of it. I wouldn't mind seeing some combo edge recurves. Full serrated could be interesting.
-Matta.k.a. Lo_Que, loadedquestions135I ❤ The P'KAL
"The world of edges has a small doorway in, but opens into a cavern that is both wide and deep." -sal
I have some recurves with partial serrations. I think putting the serrations inside the curve increases effectiveness of it. I wouldn't mind seeing some combo edge recurves. Full serrated could be interesting.
The more I think about it the more I like the idea. Yeah I could go for a combo-edged recurve>> but I still want to see a recurve in full SE. My two favs I would like to see are still the ULIZE and/or The SPYKER.
As far as combo edges go I would also like to see a Hawkbill with a combo edge at some point. There are probably serveral applications where combo edges have some advantage.
Just make a few, maybe about 500 or so of a full SE ULIZE or SPYKER and see what the guys and end line users say about them. If nothing else one Sprint Run of some full SE ULIZE would make for some really rare collectibles that most hard core collectors will grab up in pretty quick order. I seriously doubt if you would lose a dime trying.
I have some recurves with partial serrations. I think putting the serrations inside the curve increases effectiveness of it. I wouldn't mind seeing some combo edge recurves. Full serrated could be interesting.
As far as combo edges go I would also like to see a Hawkbill with a combo edge at some point. There are probably serveral applications where combo edges have some advantage.
The Byrd Crossbill has been available in combo edge for years.
I keep thinking about this topic as a direct comparison of the reverse S design Civilian/Matriarch and how a SE recurve would be so much more versatile than those while still retaining their advantages. A recurve has a far more usable tip but the overall blade shape still retains the hawkbill pull cutting power at the heel. I guess it could be argued that the reverse S may be better for self defense but that's a giant can of worms and some would say any hawkbill shape is terrible for self defense so that's a whole other debate. Looking at it just from a utilitarian perspective the recurve seems way more useful.
Also just throwing it out there as a response to those who say they avoid recurves...I agree and I also do but I think specifically a SE recurve is the important detail here and makes all the difference in the world. If they just started making PE recurve Militaries I don't know if I'd be interested, it's the combination of recurve and serrations that has my attention and I think for those of us who enjoy serrations it will be an awesome combo.
Make it in a flash batch to reduce risk. The tanto Para 2 and upcoming Bowie blade did/will sell like ice water in ****, I can't see this being a loss in sales.
I just simply think that they have not given thought to the potential of a full SE blade in recurve. Because again I would be willing to bet that Spyderco's Hawkbill blades wouldn't have got to first base in PE only. However when they offered the Harpy in full SE it's been on the main line up ever since.
My point being that some blade styles really work considerably better in full SE. It's the curve on a Hawkbill that gives it the awesome rope cutting ability. They say that the Harpy was target marketed mostly to the fishing industry. I would be willing to bet that a full SE Recurve would also be a great tool for fishermen and other seafaring jobs>> as well as about any other hard use job.
But that's OK if some of you disagree. I just know in my gut a ULIZE in full SE would outperform it's plain edge counterpart by a huge margin.
