Lightweight Native 5

[TTFulltimer]

Fortunately for me, I have purchased 4 Native 5 knives. Unfortunately for me one is a Lightweight. The scales of FRN are used as the bearing surface for the knife tang. I took the knife apart when new, cleaned and lubricated it with tsubaki oil. Carried it for two weeks and noticed yesterday it was not closing well. Took it apart and the bearing area around the pivot was nasty dirty. Cleaned it all up and lubricated again and it is back to working properly. I cannot imagine a riveted lightweight knife in use. Either I have to find some version at low cost that is not lightweight to swap the blade into, or McGuyvor some sort of bearings, or this goes on eBay.

[z1r]

Hmm, I've got near a dozen N5's, almost all of which are FRN LW models, my favorite. Never had an issue and never lubed any. Isn't FRN essentially self-lubricating? Seems to me like the lubricant is acting as a dirt magnet.



I've never needed to disassemble an N5 but have another Rex45 on the way that I am thinking of dying. So, I'll probably get the chance soo to take one apart.

[Enactive]

I would second Z1r, better not to oil the non-washer LW knives. Probability also better to not do un-needed dissassembly and reassembly.

I also have a handful of LW N5s, they are great work knives and hold up very well.

[TTFulltimer]

FRN Fiber Reinforced Nylon. Nylon is not much of a bearing surface. And the glass fiber does not help. Delrin (homopolymer) or Celcon (copolymer) are decent light duty bearing materials, but not with glass reinforcing. But what do I know? I was only working on the original formulations of FRN on the Rubber and Plastics bench in Body Material Department of the Ford Motor Company in 1964.

[z1r]

You must be right then.

[Ryder]

I’ve used this Native 5 in Spy27 for a year. While it’s not as smooth as my Delicas with their liners and washers and not as smooth as my Chaparrls the Native is not rough. The Native in very easy to disassemble. I’ve lubed it with mineral oil and beeswax and never had an issue like you describe. Is it possible your lube reacts with the FRN? I don’t think this problem is normal or it would be all over the place. Good luck. Let us know if you find out more.

I value FRN for its lightweight and strength. Backpacking and hiking for more than half a century have drilled these values into my consciousness deeply.

[JRinFL]

I guess you could mill the raised bearing portions from each scale and replace with appropriate phosphor bronze washers. But is the juice worth the squeeze?

I have used some lubes on my N5 LWs, but it only helps for a short time.

N5 LWs do not appeal to everyone, it seems.

[Ramonade]

I had the same issue with my LC200N N5 LW. The FRN makes it so that you don't need lubrification. After a while the oil just makes it sticky. If that is the case : just don't lubricate it around the pivot and you're good

I have like 7 or 8 N5 LWs and the other have been excellent in term of smoothness. I only have one with issues and it's because it was one of the first Maxamet N5s, the blade kinda ate the lockface of the lockbar over time and a ton of use.

[TTFulltimer]

Thanks for all the replies. Trying it without oil. Certainly more friction.

A little research on various friction coefficients, leads me to think a dry ptfe or a dry graphite lubricant might be the answer. I have some very thin PTFE sheet as well.

[Ramonade]

Thanks for all the replies. Trying it without oil. Certainly more friction.

Well you can always put a bit of oil on the tang, just not the insides. The FRN acts a bit like phosphore bronze in my experience

[GarageBoy]

You sure it's not the tang that the lock bar rides on?

[ChrisinHove]

Thanks for all the replies. Trying it without oil. Certainly more friction.

A little research on various friction coefficients, leads me to think a dry ptfe or a dry graphite lubricant might be the answer. I have some very thin PTFE sheet as well.

Or perhaps try a silicon based lubricant?

[z1r]

Thanks for all the replies. Trying it without oil. Certainly more friction.

A little research on various friction coefficients, leads me to think a dry ptfe or a dry graphite lubricant might be the answer. I have some very thin PTFE sheet as well.

Is it possible that, when reassembling, you perhaps installed the lock bar spring backwards? I did that once on another knife and it dramatically increased the effort required to open and close.

[Toucan]

FRN Fiber Reinforced Nylon. Nylon is not much of a bearing surface. And the glass fiber does not help. Delrin (homopolymer) or Celcon (copolymer) are decent light duty bearing materials, but not with glass reinforcing. But what do I know? I was only working on the original formulations of FRN on the Rubber and Plastics bench in Body Material Department of the Ford Motor Company in 1964.

Perhaps there have been some new developments in the intervening decades that make FRN better for this particular application? I'm not familiar with the field, but I think they've been using nylon 66 mixed with MoS2 for bearings since at least the 80's. And at least since at least 2012 it's been mixed in with some formulations of glass-filled nylon. There are probably a lot of other substances and techniques that somewhat mitigate the problematic properties of older FRN. I'm not saying that there is a secret sauce that can make FRN as slick as Teflon, but perhaps good enough when the other necessary properties for a chunk of nylon to serve double duty as linerless handle and bearing surface are considered.

[dlum1]

I oiled a native lightweight salt once. After about a week, it had the worst gritty action. I cleaned the oil out and haven't had any problems since. That was 3 years ago. I'm curious about the graphite approach. However, I'd worry about the graphite turning to mud once it gets wet and potentially pulling other muck in.

[Coastal]

I've never considered lubing a linerless FRN knife, since none of mine are sticky. Just lucky I guess, but I have a dozen or so. You may have gotten unlucky with that particular knife. Hope you get it straightened out.

[prndltech]

You sure it's not the tang that the lock bar rides on?

My thoughts exactly. The pivot doesn’t need lube, the tang however…

[brough]

Try running the pivot dry, but as others have mentioned, use some lube on the lockbar / tang interface. I use a little bit of grease.

[RustyIron]

the pivot was nasty dirty.

McGuyvor some sort of bearings, or this goes on eBay.

What kind of bearings do you hope to use that will be impervious to the nasty dirt that fills your pockets?

[TTFulltimer]

I've never considered lubing a linerless FRN knife, since none of mine are sticky. Just lucky I guess, but I have a dozen or so. You may have gotten unlucky with that particular knife. Hope you get it straightened out.

No other without bushing to compare it too. Just might be the nature of the beast