New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing

[Araignee]

Perhaps there's also a disconnect between Spyderco's design decisions (lock that "sticks" on purpose, because it's expected to be used thousands of times) and some buyers' expectations (a knife with this price tag shouldn't have to be broken in).

Spyderco could clarify that with current and future customers. Put a disclaimer on the product page, and ask retailers to feature it as well on their websites.
Contact disgruntled customers, offer advice to try breaking in the knife, and if that doesn't work or they refuse to perform this operation, make them whole.

Improving communication on this particular knife model, and giving special consideration to customers who expected otherwise, could be a way to restore trust.

[apollo]

People need to be less lazy.
Years ago when i got my Nirvana it also had lockstick. I cleaned it out played allot with it and it went buttery smooth...
Try first, if you did that and after a reasonable amount of effort its still very very bad then seek help. If that go's nowhere then complain all you want but be civil and respectful about it. Nobody will shoot you if say something is bad but they will if you are an ... about it.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

People need to be less lazy.
Years ago when i got my Nirvana it also had lockstick. I cleaned it out played allot with it and it went buttery smooth...
Try first, if you did that and after a reasonable amount of effort its still very very bad then seek help. If that go's nowhere then complain all you want but be civil and respectful about it. Nobody will shoot you if say something is bad but they will if you are an ... about it.

I think our disagreement is on who should be less lazy. I think it’s the company selling a $650 knife with lock stick. If it were a common industry thing to have to break in knives substantially (I’m at 400 cycles of this one) for there to be no lock stick, sure. But it’s not, KAI, Kizer, WE, CRK, no problems. The one company who’s putting out a lot of sticky locks on expensive knives, Spyderco, is the lazy one here.

I’m glad your Nirvana worked out tho. Those are awesome knives! Are you going to get a matching Paysan?

[salimoneus]

Apologies if I missed it, but why on earth did it take over three years for a replacement to get sent out? I mean, I would have been in communications with them after only a month or so, and been increasingly persistent after that point. That part makes little sense to me. Was there some sort of agreement to wait until a CQI version was available, which could be a period of years? If so, then waiting that long can't really be used as a complaint.

It definitely sounds like this model in particular has issues. I don't own this one, but all the other frame locks from Spyderco I own work just fine with no real issues, but none have a stainless insert at the engagement point, they are all direct Ti to blade contact. The idea of the insert makes total sense, to be able to replace a wear item cheaply and be back in business, but apparently in practice it didn't work out as well in this case.

I would agree with not buying "high end" Spyderco models, as I don't really look at Spyderco as being especially known for that segment of the market. Their focus is clearly on building robust and solid designs that many people can afford. They also have pretty extensive budget model lines. So their bread and butter is the lower/middle tiers of the knife world.

So I would say that if anyone expects perfection on a supposed "high end" Spyderco model, they probably need to adjust their expectations. They are a mass producer of knives, not a custom knife maker. They use grinders to factory sharpen blades, not hand sharpen. This is not a criticism, it's just how a production line has to work if you move the kind of volume that they do. I don't expect perfection from any of the Spyderco folders I buy, and some "breaking in" is sometimes required, the main reason I don't own any of the pricier models.

Putting the three year thing aside, no doubt they will take care of the OP one way or another. Their support may not be the absolute best, but it's right up there, and when the owner/founder chimes in, it's clear that they care. The fact that they don't delete/censor posts such as this also shows they aren't afraid to hear valid criticisms and complaints, and let them be known to the public.

I personally appreciate posts like this, at the very least it raises awareness of potential issues, which otherwise might not get proper attention or even be addressed. Clearly some of the comments in the video were a bit aggressive, but I can personally pass that off as being a raw reaction during a live unboxing, with plenty of disappointment and frustration, and no opportunity to cool off first. Not surprising it triggered some of the hardcore loyalists.

[apollo]

People need to be less lazy.
Years ago when i got my Nirvana it also had lockstick. I cleaned it out played allot with it and it went buttery smooth...
Try first, if you did that and after a reasonable amount of effort its still very very bad then seek help. If that go's nowhere then complain all you want but be civil and respectful about it. Nobody will shoot you if say something is bad but they will if you are an ... about it.

I think our disagreement is on who should be less lazy. I think it’s the company selling a $650 knife with lock stick. If it were a common industry thing to have to break in knives substantially (I’m at 400 cycles of this one) for there to be no lock stick, sure. But it’s not, KAI, Kizer, WE, CRK, no problems. The one company who’s putting out a lot of sticky locks on expensive knives, Spyderco, is the lazy one here.

I’m glad your Nirvana worked out tho. Those are awesome knives! Are you going to get a matching Paysan?

I have and had 8 spydie Framelocks in total and only the Nirvana had Lockstick.
And cant talk about the other brands but i know a dealer in Kizers and when i visited him at a local event handled almost his entire table and more then enough of those also had lockstick in variating degrees. At the local customshow i have also seen 1000€ knives with lockstick.
Its something that happens when making framelocks. And you can be lucky and never get one or you can be unlucky and get multiple i just think you had bad luck with the one they sent you.
It will get better and after some time it will get to the point that you like.

And no personally the paysan is less to my liking as a design (The Nirvana on the other hand was my dream knife from the moment i had in my hands at the Amsterdam meet back then) and since the paysan is that expensive that means its not for me.
I need to 100% love a knife before i buy it at that price.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Apologies if I missed it, but why on earth did it take over three years for a replacement to get sent out? I mean, I would have been in communications with them after only a month or so, and been increasingly persistent after that point. That part makes little sense to me. Was there some sort of agreement to wait until a CQI version was available, which could be a period of years? If so, then waiting that long can't really be used as a complaint.

It definitely sounds like this model in particular has issues. I don't own this one, but all the other frame locks from Spyderco I own work just fine with no real issues, but none have a stainless insert at the engagement point, they are all direct Ti to blade contact. The idea of the insert makes total sense, to be able to replace a wear item cheaply and be back in business, but apparently in practice it didn't work out as well in this case.

I would agree with not buying "high end" Spyderco models, as I don't really look at Spyderco as being especially known for that segment of the market. Their focus is clearly on building robust and solid designs that many people can afford. They also have pretty extensive budget model lines. So their bread and butter is the lower/middle tiers of the knife world.

So I would say that if anyone expects perfection on a supposed "high end" Spyderco model, they probably need to adjust their expectations. They are a mass producer of knives, not a custom knife maker. They use grinders to factory sharpen blades, not hand sharpen. This is not a criticism, it's just how a production line has to work if you move the kind of volume that they do. I don't expect perfection from any of the Spyderco folders I buy, and some "breaking in" is sometimes required, the main reason I don't own any of the pricier models.

Putting the three year thing aside, no doubt they will take care of the OP one way or another. Their support may not be the absolute best, but it's right up there, and when the owner/founder chimes in, it's clear that they care. The fact that they don't delete/censor posts such as this also shows they aren't afraid to hear valid criticisms and complaints, and let them be known to the public.

I personally appreciate posts like this, at the very least it raises awareness of potential issues, which otherwise might not get proper attention or even be addressed. Clearly some of the comments in the video were a bit aggressive, but I can personally pass that off as being a raw reaction during a live unboxing, with plenty of disappointment and frustration, and no opportunity to cool off first. Not surprising it triggered some of the hardcore loyalists.

I reached out to them several times over the past 3.5 years. I even asked for the knife back a few months in because it seemed really sketchy, regardless of them being super reputable. I never got any proactive communication the entire time. The email in the video was their response to ME asking them to confirm they received my knife.

I was told they didn’t have a knife to send me. I asked some probing questions and from what I’ve worked out, they don’t keep spare knives or parts for warranty work on most of their models. They likely shipped the Paysan back to the Taiwan OEM. My only option was wait for the next run, or get store credit (this was before they sold sprints on their store and I already had all the regular run Spydercos I want).

I’m sure they have parts for the non-sprint, non-exclusive knives being made in Golden. However, those on this forum who quote “amazing warranty” probably haven’t tried to get a sprint or out of stock Taiwan knife fixed. They’d be SOL.

If you buy something like say a 20cv DLC Yojimbo sprint, and its tang is jacked up and binds from improper grinding. Your options from Spyderco are store credit. They won’t have a replacement blade. If you ask nicely, they’ll be so kind as to pay for your return shipping. That’s about all the amazing CS you’ll get. “We sell all we make”

I have a good relationship with a specific vendor I buy almost everything from. They holds a few of each sprint and exclusives back in case their customers have an issue; because they know Spyderco will be unhelpful.

Spyderco is a great knife maker, but they’re not very dependable with their products, and their customer focus pales compared to most companies in any industry. I had to call like 3 times to get past a busy signal to confirm my address for this Paysan. It’s so bush league. They should have just emailed me.

On the other hand I sent a pepper mill and a desk fan in for warranty in January to two similar sized companies. Both had a proper, and modern, customer experience. Emails when the item was received, emails when the replacement shipped, 2-3 week turn around time. Spyderco choosing to not have this standard is one thing, but people need to stop pretending or blindly claiming they have an “amazing” warranty. Their warranty process is amateur at best.

[harpo1]

So why didn't you request a refund? 30 day return policy from time of receiving the item?

[phaust]

So why didn't you request a refund? 30 day return policy from time of receiving the item?

Second paragraph in the post above you

[harpo1]

So why didn't you request a refund? 30 day return policy from time of receiving the item?

Second paragraph in the post above you

He could have received a full refund had he returned it within 30 days of receiving the knife but he didn't do that. Why?

[Sharp Guy]

I know that Spyderco puts a lot of thought into making CQI changes like this but I can't help but wonder if maybe removing the detent ball ramp completely was a little drastic. As I've mentioned the non-CQI one I have is great....and it's a factory second. I just looked at the lock up on mine under magnification and it's less than 50% and it appears to be just passed the ramp. The ramp looks pretty big Maybe the lock stick issue wouldn't be such a big deal if they just made the ramp a little smaller instead of removing it altogether. Regardless, I hope they get it straightended out because I think it's a really cool design

[Sharp Guy]

So why didn't you request a refund? 30 day return policy from time of receiving the item?

Second paragraph in the post above you

He could have received a full refund had he returned it within 30 days of receiving the knife but he didn't do that. Why?

Maybe he didn't want a refund. This is a desireable model for a lot of people. I wouldn't want a refund either. I want the knife that I've looked forward to owning.

I know I was upset at the OP's attitude and the generalization that Spyder sucks at making framing frame locks (I beg to differ) but I can also understand their concern. As I've mentioned, I've had framelocks from other companies that had sever lock stick and I frustrated with those. Thankfully, I didn't call the founder of the company out or make a vid about it and I stuck with them and they ironed themselves out. It all worked out with a little patience

[Perhaps_OCD?]

So why didn't you request a refund? 30 day return policy from time of receiving the item?

Second paragraph in the post above you

He could have received a full refund had he returned it within 30 days of receiving the knife but he didn't do that. Why?

3.5 years ago, I had faith that if I sent Spyderco a knife for warranty, they would send me back a knife that didn’t have issues. I couldn’t read the future Pete.

Hopefully my video / thread saves others from making a similar mistake. A couple of people have said they’re either considering returning their new Paysan now (while they can) or aren’t buying a Paysan because of seeing the video / thread; which is why I’m doing this. Thanks for helping keep this thread alive. You’re strengthening google search engine results that will put this, and the video, in people’s faces.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

So why didn't you request a refund? 30 day return policy from time of receiving the item?

Second paragraph in the post above you

He could have received a full refund had he returned it within 30 days of receiving the knife but he didn't do that. Why?

Maybe he didn't want a refund. This is a desireable model for a lot of people. I wouldn't want a refund either. I want the knife that I've looked forward to owning.

I know I was upset at the OP's attitude and the generalization that Spyder sucks at making framing frame locks (I beg to differ) but I can also understand their concern. As I've mentioned, I've had framelocks from other companies that had sever lock stick and I frustrated with those. Thankfully, I didn't call the founder of the company out or make a vid about it and I stuck with them and they ironed themselves out. It all worked out with a little patience

Kristi said to keep this about the knives / issue not people.

I felt 3.5 years was patient. Now let’s get back to knives.

What Spyderco frame locks have you had good luck with? I want a McBee so bad; they’re adorably ridiculous. Any experience with them?

[Mushroom]

Personally, I’ve yet to have any bad luck with any of their frame locks. I have three McBee’s and they all function great. When I’m in the market for a fourth, I wont hesitate for a second to purchase it.

[Sharp Guy]

What Spyderco frame locks have you had good luck with? I want a McBee so bad; they’re adorably ridiculous. Any experience with them?

I have a McBee, it's fine and really well-done but I rarely carry it. Not because I dislike the model or there's issues with it, I prefer the Manbugs in the tiny size range

I have a Mantra which is one of my all-time favorite knives. I had to replace the detent ball and tune the detent ball hole. Now it fabulous. Off the top of my head I also have a Paysan (as mentioned), Sage 2, Southard, Swayback, Advocate, and Cricket. I might be forgetting a couple. I have several Spyderco liner locks too

[Perhaps_OCD?]

What Spyderco frame locks have you had good luck with? I want a McBee so bad; they’re adorably ridiculous. Any experience with them?

I have a McBee, it's fine and really well-done but I rarely carry it. Not because I dislike the model or there's issues with it, I prefer the Manbugs in the tiny size range

I have a Mantra which is one of my all-time favorite knives. I had to replace the detent ball and tune the detent ball hole. Now it fabulous. Off the top of my head I also have a Paysan (as mentioned), Sage 2, Southard, Swayback, Advocate, and Cricket. I might be forgetting a couple. I have several Spyderco liner locks too

Very nice! I’m assuming the original Mantra. I always wanted one!

My Spyderco liner locks are fantastic as well. Love my Bradley 2 more than most knives.

I’ve tuned a few pivot ball holes myself on Spyderco flippers. I use a small ball nose endmill in a pin vise (finger drill bit holder). Detents are something I’ve learned to expect to have to tune, you’ve probably the same. I think there’s the personal preference part, much like gun triggers, and then that even the best production manufactures all have some variation knife to knife (from my experience). When you get that detent right where you want it tho, OMG it’s nice.

[Fireman]

What Spyderco frame locks have you had good luck with? I want a McBee so bad; they’re adorably ridiculous. Any experience with them?

I have a McBee, it's fine and really well-done but I rarely carry it. Not because I dislike the model or there's issues with it, I prefer the Manbugs in the tiny size range

I have a Mantra which is one of my all-time favorite knives. I had to replace the detent ball and tune the detent ball hole. Now it fabulous. Off the top of my head I also have a Paysan (as mentioned), Sage 2, Southard, Swayback, Advocate, and Cricket. I might be forgetting a couple. I have several Spyderco liner locks too

My Mcbee is so adorable and is flawless. I wear it as a necklace… “No joke” as Biden would say

[Fireman]

Update on the 1000 challenge…
My fingers are still sore from yesterday so I took it easy today. I noticed at 350 openings that the issue of the lock bar insert catching was going away and at 400 openings and issue was about 90% gone. It’s for all intents and purposes “broken in”. I’ll keep updating the 1000 challenge but pretty much unnecessary.

[sal]

Hi Perhaps_OCD,

Thanx much for continuing the conversation with more patience. Appreciate. Our mutual goal is to get you what you want so you are pleased.

If the knife is not yet smooth, Please send it into Spyderco with attn: Charlynn. She heads up our Repair department and I usually work closely with her on issues like this one. I'll contact her and let her know it's incoming . She'll read this thread and we'll get it sorted.

sal

[cabfrank]

sal is such a good dude, time after time.