New Spyderco Paysan CQI: defective & disappointing

[Perhaps_OCD?]

I sent a Paysan in due to lock issues 3.5 years ago, and I finally received my replacement. This newly produced "CQI" model has the most sever lock stick I've seen on any knife (sometimes requires 2 hands to close).

Spyderco continues to fail at making frame locks. It's also disappointing they don't even bother to test a $920 MSRP knife before sending it to a customer (who's been waiting for their warranty replacement for over 3 years).

Moving forward, I'm not touching any of their "high end" knives. It is unacceptable for them to put out high dollar knives (Slysz Bowie, Drunken, Nirvana, Paysan) with a locking mechanism they're too incompetent, or care too little to get right.

[Kevinim82]

Initial impression of your post has me thinking…

First you should probably break in your knife with a few flicks (200-300) before posting a complaint video?

Lots of work around to tuning titanium lock bars… all easy stuff for a guy who can install a custom carry clip on a PM2.

I’d like to see your follow up video in 2 weeks.

It took me a few weeks and a little manipulating to break in a spydie chef… it was worth it.

[Danke]

You should only buy knives in person. Just so you can be sure you're getting one of the good ones.

[Coastal]

Maybe it's just me, but I like frame locks and liner locks to have a bit of lock stick when new.

[harpo1]

Mine came the same way. Before making videos how about checking your knife first. Spyderco sends out all their knives with a bunch of oil on the blade. Clean the oil off the stop pin and tang of the blade and most the lock stick is gone. Second, break the knife in and all the lock stick will be gone. Then try not pushing straight down on the lock bar, come in from the side and use your thumb nail. Works like a champ and smooth as butter.

[JRinFL]

My CRK Inkosi needed no break-in as far as the lock was concerned. It worked right out of the box and the whole knife was about 50% less than the Paysan. There is no excuse to let a less than perfect example of your "halo" knife out to the public. Especially if it was to replace a warranty item 3 YEARS after the fact. Take the extra few minutes to make it correct before shipping.

[abbazaba]

What was the CQI for this model? I had a Paysan years ago and it was a fine example with great action and no lock stick.

[harpo1]

I think had they made better access to the lock bar on the show side this knife would be perfect.

[harpo1]

My CRK Inkosi needed no break-in as far as the lock was concerned. It worked right out of the box and the whole knife was about 50% less than the Paysan. There is no excuse to let a less than perfect example of your "halo" knife out to the public. Especially if it was to replace a warranty item 3 YEARS after the fact. Take the extra few minutes to make it correct before shipping.

That may be but it needs to be open a few hundred times to smooth out the action. Yes I own one.

[Airlsee]

Inkosi uses the ceramic detent ball as the lockbar interface, not exactly apples to apples.

That being said, OP's Paysan does seem extra sticky and my Swayback and Advocate needed no lockbar break-in time. I can understand the disappointment, but also wouldn't call it defective. I think it will smooth out with time, whether that is acceptable is up to the user I suppose.

[JRinFL]

Initial tightness in knives with close tolerances is one thing, lock stick on a new lock, no matter the reason, is not acceptable on a premium product. This is not a low cost, mass produced commodity knife we are talking about. The extra care is supposed to be built into the high price.

[Araignee]

I don't own any frame/liner lock, but looking at your complaint about how the lock engages too deeply, I'm thinking that's exactly what I'd want with this sort of lock.

I saw many pictures of knives where I thought these locks looked too flimsy, like a slight movement would be sufficient to disengage them.

Not that I'm looking to invalidate your issues. If comparable knives from other brand have more pleasurable locks, it's unsurprising that you're not happy with how Spyderco machined and adjusted this Paysan. (Also 3,5 years for a replacement ?! That's the most shocking part to me).

[Omega80000]

Got mine in today and it’s the same way. Very bad stick, so bad it makes a snap sound some of the time. Definitely disappointing because my Techno 2 and Swayback were fine out of the box, with the Techno 2 being the best-feeling frame lock I’ve had in general. I’m going to clean off the factory grease and flip it a ton to give it a chance, but if it doesn’t go away I’m def sending it back. There’s really no excuse for that when knives 1/6 of the price can consistently come with no lock stick.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Initial impression of your post has me thinking…

First you should probably break in your knife with a few flicks (200-300) before posting a complaint video?

Lots of work around to tuning titanium lock bars… all easy stuff for a guy who can install a custom carry clip on a PM2.

I’d like to see your follow up video in 2 weeks.

It took me a few weeks and a little manipulating to break in a spydie chef… it was worth it.

I have over 20 framelocks in my collection from various manufacturers and owned many more in the past. I have also dissembled and tweaked lock bars and detents on at least 10 flippers. You speak as if I’m some noob with no experience. It’s the opposite, I’ve been around enough knives to know this one isn’t going to be something that smooths out. The lock bar engagement is excessive, that doesn’t smooth out like a sticky compression lock. It is a defect, or at least is considered one by ZT, CRK, WE, etc… you know the companies that aren’t fools when it comes to frame locks.

If it were a $50 to $150 knife, I’d tear it apart and work some magic. But it’s not, it’s supposed to be a premium knife It’s lock action should be better than a $50 Kizer, Ontario Rat, Civivi, etc… but it’s not even close.

[TkoK83Spy]

If anything, someone flicking their knife 200-300 times to try and fix a problem sounds like a noob to me. Just tweak/take apart/clean and things are USUALLY fine after that.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

If anything, someone flicking their knife 200-300 times to try and fix a problem sounds like a noob to me. Just tweak/take apart/clean and things are USUALLY fine after that.

Exactly! This man knows a frame lock. Glad to see another tinkerer on the forum.

It doesn’t sit right for me to have to do it on something this expensive tho. Spyderco needs to own up to what they put out. So it’s going back to them. Maybe they’ll learn how to properly setup a frame lock by me not doing it for them… probably not tho.

[Cl1ff]

I think it's clearly a problem with this model because Spyderco makes many frame locks that are just fine.
I understand being deterred from buying others because of this experience, but it seems like an overreaction to criticize every other frame lock model they make. I'm just letting you know that it comes off a bit dramatic relative to the actual problem, especially when you're not passing up the chance to call the company and Sal fools in the next sentence.
I think you're right to be critical, but I don't think it appears they have intentionally slighted you or anyone and the knife is evidently of high quality otherwise (which implies a genuine effort to me).

Lock stick doesn't bother me at all, but if it is difficult to disengage with one hand then it is time for Spyderco to consider going back to the drawing board once more.

What I think is there must be some challenge they're facing with the manufacture of this particular frame lock, specifically relating to its integral construction. Or it could be that Peter Rassenti's custom design's geometry is just not suited for translation into mass production without running into some kind of issue.
I don't say this to be critical of his customs.

It is definitely unfortunate to wait over three years for such an expensive knife to not be adequate in a critically important way and I would be disappointed if Spyderco does not work to improve it.

[Dazen]

My new CQI Paysan was a two handed closer when I got it about a week ago. I thought about sending it back but I love the knife too much not to have it in my rotation.

Fast forward to today and the stick is gone! If you use it it will get better, if it’s a safe queen than it shouldn’t matter.

I do wish they would do this knife again in a one piece Ti integral comp lock.

[Senfkarte]

I think it's clearly a problem with this model because Spyderco makes many frame locks that are just fine.
I understand being deterred from buying others because of this experience, but it seems like an overreaction to baselessly criticize every other frame lock model they make. I'm just letting you know that it comes off like a dramatic overreaction to the actual problem, especially when you're not passing up the chance to call the company and Sal fools in the next sentence.
I think you're right to be critical, but I don't think it appears they have intentionally slighted you or anyone and the knife is evidently of high quality otherwise (which implies a genuine effort to me).

Lock stick doesn't bother me at all, but if it is difficult to disengage with one hand then it is time for Spyderco to consider going back to the drawing board once more.

What I think is there must be some challenge they're facing with the manufacture of this particular frame lock, specifically relating to its integral construction. Or it could be that Peter Rassenti's custom design's geometry is just not suited for translation into mass production without running into some kind of issue.
I don't say this to be critical of his customs.

It is definitely unfortunate to wait over three years for such an expensive knife to not be adequate in a critically important way and I would be disappointed if Spyderco does not work to improve it.

To be fair, he had called Spyderco. 3.5 years ago. I would also not enjoy it, if my replacement would be disappointing, which would be the case here for me.

The words towards the end of the video might have been not the nicest and have been not necessary, but I also can understand that one is a little emotional after waiting 3.5 years, for the most expensive knife Spyderco sells right now and get one, that has lock issues again.

[RamZar]

The Reeve Integral Lock (R.I.L.) mechanism on the Paysan has a stainless steel interface so there should be no lock stick as the contact point between the lock and the blade is steel on steel and not titanium on steel which causes the stick specially if it’s oily.