A simple decision. 15V and the future

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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RustyIron
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#21

Post by RustyIron »

It's funny how so many people wail and moan about not being able to buy a knife when there are plenty available for those who are willing to pony up the cash... to put their money where their mouth is.

I don't think I've ever sold a Spyderco for much less than I paid. To do so would be dumb. I've sold a few for about what I paid, but I really didn't like them an wanted to get rid of them. Some I've sold for a profit.

And I suppose that every knife I have is for sale if someone lays down a wad of cash big enough to get my attention. So I guess that makes me a flipper. I'm ok with that.

Maybe we need a new Sub-Forum for Flippers and those who are unashamed of acquiring the knives they want.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#22

Post by kennbr34 »

nerdlock wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:10 pm
Brant wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:39 pm
Isn’t the chase half the fun?
Way before 2018, it was more "fun" indeed for Spyderco collectors because most of the people who chased Sprint runs weren't part of the very big Facebook knife collector groups - so you did not have to fight for the chance to score in a drop with thousands of other people who are in it to flaunt the knives in social media, not to use it and test its performance.

Nowadays, you have to compete with these members of Facebook groups whose members do nothing but mostly encourage "showing off" your latest Spyderco purchase. They don't even try to police the rampant flipping of prices for Sprint runs and dealer exclusives in their buy/sell threads - in fact, calling out flippers will get you a ban for "price policing".

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:21 am
This is one of the many problems with short runs of performance steels. They end up feeding the flippers and collectors *must* have them, so only a few actually get used. It is an utter waste of resources to design and build a performance knife only to have the majority never be used other than for "Instacred".
I agree. If you check out the posts of those who got the Manix 15v in those FB groups/Instagram posts, majority are just posts showing off the knife and about only a few users really post about performance/sharpening.

I'm not saying I'm not guilty - most of my high performance steels end up in my sock drawer and not being used at all to test for performance or sharpening response. But it mostly boils down to the basic problem with Sprint runs - they are so pricey and limited, that the fear of not getting another one in case something happens to your copy will eventually prevent you from using your knife to its fullest potential.
Yeah, to me it seems like it was a weird choice to release it as a sprint run if the goal was to get performance/use reviews. The sprint runs are specifically meant to be collectible, and so it sets it up to be sold to a demographic who is less likely to use them. On the other hand, I guess they also knew it was the quickest way for people who want to use it to also enjoy it, so you gotta take one with the other.

However, then there's the 15V Mule coming out. The sprint runs are not so explicitly stated to be done with the intent of testing of the steel, but the Mules definitely are. Yet I'm sure there are still going to be quite a few people who jump on the 15V Mule and then end up not using it, and to me that's much more unfortunate.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#23

Post by Steeltoez83 »

In my draw cut testing seki k390 scored 300, the 15V scored 320. Maxamet scored 290. S90v got 255. 4V got 200. Magnacut non spyderco got 190. Spy27 got 130. S45vn crk got 110. Pac Salt h1 got 55. For the money it's hard to beat seki k390. What I witnessed was at near projected half way points of being dull the k390 had more polish than 15V. However k390 slides thru the working edge slightly faster in contrast to 15V. For sanity sake it's easier to recommend k390. However Shawn id consider a friend so I was chasing one when they dropped. And it's fun to run the hard hitters against each other to spot the nuances. I can do that bcuz I scored 1 legitly when they dropped. Instead of paying flipper prices, I'd just get the police in k390.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#24

Post by WilliamMunny »

RustyIron wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:25 pm
It's funny how so many people wail and moan about not being able to buy a knife when there are plenty available for those who are willing to pony up the cash... to put their money where their mouth is.

I don't think I've ever sold a Spyderco for much less than I paid. To do so would be dumb. I've sold a few for about what I paid, but I really didn't like them an wanted to get rid of them. Some I've sold for a profit.

And I suppose that every knife I have is for sale if someone lays down a wad of cash big enough to get my attention. So I guess that makes me a flipper. I'm ok with that.

Maybe we need a new Sub-Forum for Flippers and those who are unashamed of acquiring the knives they want.
Don't worry that does not make you a flipper. My idea of a flipper is someone buying a knife, or multiple, for the sole reason of selling it. If you buy a knife for yourself but down the road someone wants to give you big money for it, selling it is just good business. Saw someone say the same user has sold 20 Manix 15V on eBay, that's a flipper and drives me nuts. If they have that much free time they should find some work.
Last edited by WilliamMunny on Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#25

Post by Evil D »

Sprints and exclusives are fun but I personally don't get a lot of satisfaction from knowing that they're limited production and/or even worth more money, I'd get a lot more enjoyment from knowing I can beat the crap out of them and easily replace them.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#26

Post by GarageBoy »

JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:21 am
This is one of the many problems with short runs of performance steels. They end up feeding the flippers and collectors *must* have them, so only a few actually get used. It is an utter waste of resources to design and build a performance knife only to have the majority never be used other than for "Instacred".
Definitely feels like everyone bought one then threw fancy aftermarket parts on them for photos.

This is why I like that Maxamet/k390 can be had all day long. No worry about using a knife hard and being unable to replace it if something happens

I liked the how Police 4 G10 K390 was available for a while before getting discontinued. Sure it was only one model, but everyone had a chance.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#27

Post by ladybug93 »

GarageBoy wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:49 am
JRinFL wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:21 am
This is one of the many problems with short runs of performance steels. They end up feeding the flippers and collectors *must* have them, so only a few actually get used. It is an utter waste of resources to design and build a performance knife only to have the majority never be used other than for "Instacred".
Definitely feels like everyone bought one then threw fancy aftermarket parts on them for photos.

This is why I like that Maxamet/k390 can be had all day long. No worry about using a knife hard and being unable to replace it if something happens

I liked the how Police 4 G10 K390 was available for a while before getting discontinued. Sure it was only one model, but everyone had a chance.
i'm looking forward to putting after market parts on mine AND using it. right now, i'm prioritizing use of my rec manix, which i've only had in the rotation since october. but i will start carrying and using my 15v in another month or so (bought it for my birthday, so it's sitting in waiting right now). it should be great timing because i'm moving to florida. that means even more humidity than we have here in coastal virginia and lots of packing materials to break down. i can't wait to put it to use getting reacquainted with some florida trails i grew up hiking too.

i like taking pictures of my knives, but i only share them here. no "instacred" for me.
Evil D wrote: Sprints and exclusives are fun but I personally don't get a lot of satisfaction from knowing that they're limited production and/or even worth more money, I'd get a lot more enjoyment from knowing I can beat the crap out of them and easily replace them.
it's a mixed bag for me... i enjoy having knives that are different from each other and from the standard, but i don't like that they are so rare or that they are so hard to get. the rec manix sold out in 3 minutes and i had to sneak out of a meeting at work early to get it. i was out in the parking lot with barely any service walking around looking for more bars and looking like an idiot when it dropped. i wish it wasn't that difficult to get just so some people could post them on facebook a couple times and then sell them for double when they got bored with it. anyway, it's weird that all of my manixes are exclusives... i typically buy stock models but haven't done so yet with the manix. i will probably pick up an s30v dlc model eventually, but every time i'm waiting to get that one, another exclusive manix or another knife distracts me while i'm waiting for it to restock.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#28

Post by TTFulltimer »

Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:13 pm
I agree , the only thing that would be needed is a color not already in production and exclusives , and good to go if it ever became a reality . MG2
Shawn was personally involved at the factory in the heat treat of the Sprint run. He has stated that production runs of 15V would be heat treated by production means, since he is not going to be a heat treat employee of Spyderco. Who knows what might transpire when that happens? Maybe the BBB heat treatment is too time consuming or too costly for production. Maybe the grinding department will lobby for easier grinds. With that statement from Shawn, I bit the bullet and paid too much on the secondary market. The only gripe I have is that the knife has that screwball lock. Now I have springs on order that were not taken off a heavy duty diesel truck. Do we know that Shawn will run the heat treat for the next sprint runs?
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#29

Post by Manixguy@1994 »

TTFulltimer wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:15 pm
Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:13 pm
I agree , the only thing that would be needed is a color not already in production and exclusives , and good to go if it ever became a reality . MG2
Shawn was personally involved at the factory in the heat treat of the Sprint run. He has stated that production runs of 15V would be heat treated by production means, since he is not going to be a heat treat employee of Spyderco. Who knows what might transpire when that happens? Maybe the BBB heat treatment is too time consuming or too costly for production. Maybe the grinding department will lobby for easier grinds. With that statement from Shawn, I bit the bullet and paid too much on the secondary market. The only gripe I have is that the knife has that screwball lock. Now I have springs on order that were not taken off a heavy duty diesel truck. Do we know that Shawn will run the heat treat for the next sprint runs?
How 15V is heat treated in the future is beyond my pay grade or what will follow . I will say Spyderco 15V steel will probably not disappoint the user . As far as the lock is concerned , I have no problem with the CBBL . The action will break in over time and operate smoothly from use . I actually have a Manix posted today In Pocket and perfectly works fine . MG2
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#30

Post by JRinFL »

Work on your hand strength if the spring are too difficult to compress. I have no trouble with any of the Manix 2s I own and I don't have monster hands that can crush rocks. Those rubber balls from Theraband are more than enough to work your hand and finger strength up.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#31

Post by RustyIron »

nerdlock wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:10 pm
Nowadays, you have to compete with these members of Facebook groups whose members do nothing but mostly encourage "showing off" your latest Spyderco purchase. They don't even try to police the rampant flipping of prices for Sprint runs and dealer exclusives in their buy/sell threads - in fact, calling out flippers will get you a ban for "price policing".

I have a vastly different opinion on this.

A while back I decided that I was never going to use a few of the Sprints that were sitting here in my drawer. I didn't need them, didn't want them, and could use the money elsewhere. Not knowing how to easily sell a knife, I joined up with the group that considers themselves the "Spyderco Purists." I checked comps, and offered my knives at a price that was a little lower so they would sell fast and not be a great inconvenience to me. Someone on the "purist" group had a fit because I was "flipping" my knives and asking more than I paid. I was taken aback because the prices were lower than comps, and I thought I was offering a good deal. To sell any of the knifes at the street price of years past just seemed stupid. I try not to be stupid. No one in the "purist group" stepped up in my defense. It was clear that their vision for the group was different than what I was seeking, so I rescinded my offer and asked the owner of the group to delete me. And that was that.

Then I went to that "Facebook Spyderco Group" that is filled with your so-called "show offs." I listed my knives at the prices I offered them to the "purists," and within a couple days they were all gone. Since then, I've sold one more knife... one that is mentioned here from time to time, one that people want. But the rules on this forum prevented me from offering it up. Once again, the "Facebook Show Offs" got the knife. I'd rather have sold it to someone here, but the rules are the rules.

It seems that the "show offs" get the knives, and the "purists" sit around wringing their hands over "no knives to be had." I still look in on the FB group from time to time, and there always seems to be plenty of Spydercos for sale. My advice for anyone looking to buy, go to Facebook. For anyone looking to sell a knife and would like to get a fair price without being publicly humiliated, go to Facebook.


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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#32

Post by Mushroom »

TTFulltimer wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:15 pm
Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:13 pm
I agree , the only thing that would be needed is a color not already in production and exclusives , and good to go if it ever became a reality . MG2
Shawn was personally involved at the factory in the heat treat of the Sprint run. He has stated that production runs of 15V would be heat treated by production means, since he is not going to be a heat treat employee of Spyderco. Who knows what might transpire when that happens? Maybe the BBB heat treatment is too time consuming or too costly for production. Maybe the grinding department will lobby for easier grinds. With that statement from Shawn, I bit the bullet and paid too much on the secondary market. The only gripe I have is that the knife has that screwball lock. Now I have springs on order that were not taken off a heavy duty diesel truck. Do we know that Shawn will run the heat treat for the next sprint runs?
Yes, we do. Just like the Manix 2 sprint, he won’t be doing the actual heat treating himself but Spydercos heat treatment team will carefully follow his heat treatment protocol. Both the Paramilitary 2 and Shaman 15V sprint runs will use Shawn’s specifically selected melt (batch of steel) and heat treatment protocol.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#33

Post by elena86 »

Steeltoez83 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:06 am
In my draw cut testing seki k390 scored 300, the 15V scored 320. Maxamet scored 290. S90v got 255. 4V got 200. Magnacut non spyderco got 190. Spy27 got 130. S45vn crk got 110. Pac Salt h1 got 55. For the money it's hard to beat seki k390. What I witnessed was at near projected half way points of being dull the k390 had more polish than 15V. However k390 slides thru the working edge slightly faster in contrast to 15V. For sanity sake it's easier to recommend k390. However Shawn id consider a friend so I was chasing one when they dropped. And it's fun to run the hard hitters against each other to spot the nuances. I can do that bcuz I scored 1 legitly when they dropped. Instead of paying flipper prices, I'd just get the police in k390.
Which one keeps a razor edge(peak sharpness) longer ? Let's throw ZDP189 into the mix ...
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#34

Post by Steeltoez83 »

elena86 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:47 pm
Steeltoez83 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:06 am
In my draw cut testing seki k390 scored 300, the 15V scored 320. Maxamet scored 290. S90v got 255. 4V got 200. Magnacut non spyderco got 190. Spy27 got 130. S45vn crk got 110. Pac Salt h1 got 55. For the money it's hard to beat seki k390. What I witnessed was at near projected half way points of being dull the k390 had more polish than 15V. However k390 slides thru the working edge slightly faster in contrast to 15V. For sanity sake it's easier to recommend k390. However Shawn id consider a friend so I was chasing one when they dropped. And it's fun to run the hard hitters against each other to spot the nuances. I can do that bcuz I scored 1 legitly when they dropped. Instead of paying flipper prices, I'd just get the police in k390.
Which one keeps a razor edge(peak sharpness) longer ? Let's throw ZDP189 into the mix ...
I normally just use a benchmark for overall dullness. I haven't run zdp 189 yet, but I can run it against a few other steels to see how it compares front end sharpness. Any particular steels you'd like to see?
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#35

Post by elena86 »

Steeltoez83 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:32 pm
elena86 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:47 pm
Steeltoez83 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:06 am
In my draw cut testing seki k390 scored 300, the 15V scored 320. Maxamet scored 290. S90v got 255. 4V got 200. Magnacut non spyderco got 190. Spy27 got 130. S45vn crk got 110. Pac Salt h1 got 55. For the money it's hard to beat seki k390. What I witnessed was at near projected half way points of being dull the k390 had more polish than 15V. However k390 slides thru the working edge slightly faster in contrast to 15V. For sanity sake it's easier to recommend k390. However Shawn id consider a friend so I was chasing one when they dropped. And it's fun to run the hard hitters against each other to spot the nuances. I can do that bcuz I scored 1 legitly when they dropped. Instead of paying flipper prices, I'd just get the police in k390.
Which one keeps a razor edge(peak sharpness) longer ? Let's throw ZDP189 into the mix ...
I normally just use a benchmark for overall dullness. I haven't run zdp 189 yet, but I can run it against a few other steels to see how it compares front end sharpness. Any particular steels you'd like to see?
From the ones you tested, which one keeps the razor edge longer ?
Marius

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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#36

Post by Steeltoez83 »

elena86 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:19 pm
Steeltoez83 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:32 pm
elena86 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:47 pm
Steeltoez83 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:06 am
In my draw cut testing seki k390 scored 300, the 15V scored 320. Maxamet scored 290. S90v got 255. 4V got 200. Magnacut non spyderco got 190. Spy27 got 130. S45vn crk got 110. Pac Salt h1 got 55. For the money it's hard to beat seki k390. What I witnessed was at near projected half way points of being dull the k390 had more polish than 15V. However k390 slides thru the working edge slightly faster in contrast to 15V. For sanity sake it's easier to recommend k390. However Shawn id consider a friend so I was chasing one when they dropped. And it's fun to run the hard hitters against each other to spot the nuances. I can do that bcuz I scored 1 legitly when they dropped. Instead of paying flipper prices, I'd just get the police in k390.
Which one keeps a razor edge(peak sharpness) longer ? Let's throw ZDP189 into the mix ...
I normally just use a benchmark for overall dullness. I haven't run zdp 189 yet, but I can run it against a few other steels to see how it compares front end sharpness. Any particular steels you'd like to see?
From the ones you tested, which one keeps the razor edge longer ?
Based off the limited testing I've done. And the parameters of the 13 degree microbevel set on a 1k tripleb super vit diamond stone, I think 4V resisted deformation the best for front end sharpness. I normally don't test for that specifically. However I think 4V maintained the same starting point sharpness the longest from what I've seen.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#37

Post by TTFulltimer »

Mushroom wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:53 am
TTFulltimer wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:15 pm
Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:13 pm
I agree , the only thing that would be needed is a color not already in production and exclusives , and good to go if it ever became a reality . MG2
Shawn was personally involved at the factory in the heat treat of the Sprint run. He has stated that production runs of 15V would be heat treated by production means, since he is not going to be a heat treat employee of Spyderco. Who knows what might transpire when that happens? Maybe the BBB heat treatment is too time consuming or too costly for production. Maybe the grinding department will lobby for easier grinds. With that statement from Shawn, I bit the bullet and paid too much on the secondary market. The only gripe I have is that the knife has that screwball lock. Now I have springs on order that were not taken off a heavy duty diesel truck. Do we know that Shawn will run the heat treat for the next sprint runs?
Yes, we do. Just like the Manix 2 sprint, he won’t be doing the actual heat treating himself but Spydercos heat treatment team will carefully follow his heat treatment protocol. Both the Paramilitary 2 and Shaman 15V sprint runs will use Shawn’s specifically selected melt (batch of steel) and heat treatment protocol.
Thanks for the clarifications. I understand the next Sprints will be like the Manix one. What I was addressing was the question of production.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#38

Post by Mushroom »

TTFulltimer wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:29 pm
Mushroom wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:53 am
TTFulltimer wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:15 pm
Manixguy@1994 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:13 pm
I agree , the only thing that would be needed is a color not already in production and exclusives , and good to go if it ever became a reality . MG2
Shawn was personally involved at the factory in the heat treat of the Sprint run. He has stated that production runs of 15V would be heat treated by production means, since he is not going to be a heat treat employee of Spyderco. Who knows what might transpire when that happens? Maybe the BBB heat treatment is too time consuming or too costly for production. Maybe the grinding department will lobby for easier grinds. With that statement from Shawn, I bit the bullet and paid too much on the secondary market. The only gripe I have is that the knife has that screwball lock. Now I have springs on order that were not taken off a heavy duty diesel truck. Do we know that Shawn will run the heat treat for the next sprint runs?
Yes, we do. Just like the Manix 2 sprint, he won’t be doing the actual heat treating himself but Spydercos heat treatment team will carefully follow his heat treatment protocol. Both the Paramilitary 2 and Shaman 15V sprint runs will use Shawn’s specifically selected melt (batch of steel) and heat treatment protocol.
Thanks for the clarifications. I understand the next Sprints will be like the Manix one. What I was addressing was the question of production.
Oh my bad, I was addressing your last question that specifically mentioned sprint runs. At this point, the only 15V planned for production that we know about will be Shawn’s collaboration design. That knife will also use the same steel and his heat treatment protocol.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#39

Post by Cl1ff »

Yeah, I think people are missing the knowledge that 15V was originally planned to be introduced on the production collaboration design which I believe initially started BBB’s direct collaborations with Spyderco (I imagine they had probably shared info, at least, and talked before hand). Maybe there’s some prior collaboration I’m blanking on.

However, BBB wants his knife made in Golden, which meant it would take a while to be in production, at least until after the Golden expansion I think.
Because of this, Eric asked BBB if Spyderco could bring their work with 15V to the market sooner, in the form of some Sprint Runs like the Manix 2. I think the rest is clear.

It’s understandable to lack this insight because the collaboration knife has not been officially announced in any product reveal or catalog. Again, this is because it sometimes takes a good deal of time to introduce a new design.

It has, so far, only been discussed here with a lot of enthusiasm and anticipation.

Anyway, everyone will get their chance at 15V eventually.
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Re: A simple decision. 15V and the future

#40

Post by USMC-88 »

JRinFL wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:10 pm
My vote counts for little, but 15v replacing Maxamet seems like a wise change. Keep K390 on the Japanese models.
THIS!
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